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shephardess

Trying to create healthy relationships

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Desertrat56
On 10/27/2019 at 2:15 PM, shephardess said:

I’m sorry, I think I shouldn’t have started this topic. it is very difficult for me to explain things. I think it’s about energy. The energy of a group dynamic. How to hold on to your own energy is what I’m trying to figure out. It’s like trying to play a folk song at a rock concert. I don’t know why but I thought someone might get what I was saying without an example. I apologize for being unable to explain it better. Thanks for trying to understand. 

We all have our own examples and they may or may not be similar to yours.  Mine are almost all family and so the bad habits I have in the way I respond are very ingraned and it has taken me a lot of years to recognize them and start to address them.

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the13bats
51 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

You did him the only favor you could.  Being his friend required too much of you and too little of him so you had no choice. 

This is right but also john in a way gave up on himself...

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Desertrat56
Just now, the13bats said:

This is right but also john in a way gave up on himself...

Yes, a long time before you did.

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shephardess
1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

 

It is hard to break certain patterns so you have to identify them and then make a plan and stick to it.  No relenting, no guilt, no regret.

 

Yes, exactly. It is especially difficult in a family group with longstanding deeply ingrained patterns. I’ve been moderately successful at making a plan but have  often been unable to stick to the plan. This may seem strange but I have the most success when I remove myself emotionally from the idea of being a part of the group. I will switch to being an outside observer in my mind. Then there is no momentum of past reactions to specific behaviors. I guess the trick is to make this the default when in the company of certain people. 

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Desertrat56
2 minutes ago, shephardess said:

Yes, exactly. It is especially difficult in a family group with longstanding deeply ingrained patterns. I’ve been moderately successful at making a plan but have  often been unable to stick to the plan. This may seem strange but I have the most success when I remove myself emotionally from the idea of being a part of the group. I will switch to being an outside observer in my mind. Then there is no momentum of past reactions to specific behaviors. I guess the trick is to make this the default when in the company of certain people. 

I think that is a good idea because the hooks some people are used to are dependent on your expectations and attachments.  I literally had to tell my dad twice to "get the hell off my property" and even then he still tried to manipulate me.  When I lived 700 miles away he would have a fight with my brother then call me to tell me he was disappointed in me (he wanted to continue the fight I guess).  There was nothing to do but hang up without saying anything.

 

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shephardess
8 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

There was nothing to do but hang up without saying anything.

 

I will have to try that one! :tu:

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Desertrat56
16 minutes ago, shephardess said:

I will have to try that one! :tu:

The last thing I did was harsh but I did it anyway and it worked.  My dad is in a nursing home now and when I would go visit him he always told me I had to give him my pickup because when he got out of there he would need a vehicle.  The reason it irked me so was that 20 years ago when I bought that pickup he started calling me and telling me he needed it and I should give it to him.  He did not need a pickup.  So, I decided in order for me to give up being angry about it I had to tell him.  I said "it is my pickup, not yours.  You have money buy yourself a pickup if you need one.  I will not talk about this again.  If you bring it up I will be out of here without a word."  The next time I visited he mentioned the pickup, I got up and walked out.  He has never mentioned it again.  He has dementia but at that time it was not bad enough for me to continue to ignore the disrespect.   Some of my relatives chastised me about it but they don't ever go see him, so they don't have a say.  It is exhausting being around a narcissist and bully. 

Edited by Desertrat56
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LightAngel

It is nice to read all the profound and honest thoughts posted in this topic! :yes:

 

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jypsijemini
On 10/31/2019 at 2:51 AM, shephardess said:

 I have the most success when I remove myself emotionally from the idea of being a part of the group. I will switch to being an outside observer in my mind.

Absolutely!

You initiate such a powerful shift when one is able to take a step back and just observe the room. You begin to really gain and insight that is impossible when you are emotionally invested in the situation. It's just a matter of re-training your mind. You might benefit from the use of a word or an image that can help trigger this new coping mechanism - like "Retreat!" or "Time to get back in my bubble". Imagine that your bubble is safe and impenetrable. You can interact from inside of it if you wish, but nobody's getting in no matter how hard they try. Or similarly, imagine yourself retreating back to your fort. It's bullet-proof. It's camouflaged. You're completely safe from any attack. You're secure now to observe the field and plan your next move in your own time.

This sort of intention and manifestation can be incredibly powerful. You've released your intention and taken back control in the only way that you can when presented with situations like this. It allows you to step back, take a breath and regroup. You don't even have to listen to what they're saying - you can just act like you are and focus on something like observing the emotions that you notice through their facial expressions, observe their body language - and if you want to allow yourself to listen, what kind of words are they using to express themselves and what are they trying to convey? Where is this coming from?

I like to calm myself down with empathic thoughts like, "I wonder what their day's been like today. Maybe they've had a rough day/week/month/year/life. I wonder what sort of background they've come from. I wonder who's spoken to them like this in the past."

I used to take everything personally. If someone was having a bad day, it was my fault and only I could fix it. I took so much upon myself! Just one look from somebody could ruin me. What had I done to them?! How could I make it better? Have I upset them somehow? What did I do wrong?

I've come to realise (very slowly but surely) that I cannot change anybody, no matter how much I love or care for them. I've wasted a lot of time with people who never saw my worth, never appreciated my efforts and never loved me back. I've been used and abused a lot. I didn't want it to break me and turn me into someone cold. I didn't want to be one of those people who gets out of a bad relationship with the war cry, "I'll never trust anyone ever again!"

I pride myself by how hard I love and how deep my love really is. I'll never change that. People don't have to earn my trust - they just have to keep it. Sometimes they'll get a second chance if they break it the first time. I'm still learning that some things aren't worthy of a second chance.

It's about self love. Not discounting your worth. It's not a matter of having unachievable expectations and standards - but there's got to be a line that you draw where you're strong enough and confident enough and committed to yourself enough to say "No more. I will not let you treat me that way." It's so tough. It can be heart breaking to have to cut toxic people out of your life. But it's like having to clean an infected wound without painkillers or any anaesthetic. The infection has to go. You can't keep bandaiding it and expecting it to heal itself. It's going to get worse the long you leave it there. It'll take longer if you just expect your immune system to fight it slowly. It'll make you weak because all your energy is going into fighting it.

You've got to bite down and scrape it out. All of it. That's where the analogy ends, because sometimes toxic people will notice your absence and they'll want to change themselves in order to prove they care about you and they're sorry. It's rare, but it can happen. It's a blessing - and ultimately what any of us want.

But you can't allow their toxicity to make you negative and bitter. It's like knowingly ingesting a little bit of poison with every meal and then being surprised when you start to get sick and your body starts to shut down. Even if you have to let them go, do so with as much love and forgiveness as you can muster. That's what you need in your life, and so do they. They don't need you to feed them more of the horrible energy that they're already so consumed by, and you don't deserve to keep suffering when they've exited your life.

It's what @RabidMongoose was getting at - revenge isn't always a bad thing, when it's done instantly and spontaneously. It's just instant karma, and sometimes giving somebody a negative and sharp response can surprise them and make them realise they acted poorly. But it's plotting and dwelling on negativity and revenge which is toxic - particularly for you.

I hated my ex for a long time after two years of abuse. I wished nothing but hell for his life for a long time - and I began to lose the things I loved about myself. It began to turn me into someone I didn't want to be. I realised that if he kept suffering, he'd just continue hurting other people for the rest of his life. That's not what I wanted. Sure, I wanted him to get some sort of retribution for the things he'd put me through - but not at anyone else's expense. That would mean that what I went through was meaningless and fruitless. I wanted something beautiful to sprout out of the ****. And so I forced myself - every time my thoughts gravitated to hate and anger - to mentally send unconditional Universal love instead. I didn't feel it at all. I asked the Universe to help him to find peace, love and forgiveness. That he would learn to love someone the right way, and to be loved in return.

I did this for all the difficult people in my life. It's such a difficult pattern to start and takes a lot of patience and effort to make it into a habit - but it's worth it. The world needs more of it. And on the odd occasion that I've checked up on... okay, stalked the people from my past who I struggled with, the people who hurt me - their lives seem to be getting better and more full of love the more that I focus on wishing that over their lives. One of my co-workers was a good friend of mine but it became alarmingly clear that he was a very toxic, bitter person. I had to cut him out. Initially, he was very upset but months later, I got an apology. It was beautiful to see that it had changed his heart in his own time without me having to confront or judge him. It didn't repair the friendship by any means but I knew that sending good vibes was a much better way of dealing with it for us both.

I had to ask myself: who am I to judge whether someone is deserving of Love or not? I've done and said horrible things as well. Maybe not to that degree, but who am I to rate their wrongs? And again, I would rather see them go on to become loving, gracious, caring people than to see them suffer just so I can feel like they got what they deserved for hurting me because chances are, they'll just go on to hurt other people.

Hurt people hurt people. And loved people tend to love people. They are not rules. There are many exceptions to those statements, I know. But all I can do is love as hard as I can, care as much as I'm able, and always remember to love myself and stay true to my own worth. Some people aren't a good enough influence to remain in your life.

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shephardess

 Well that was a very thoughtful and expressive post. Jypsijemini, Thanks 

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RabidMongoose
On 12/1/2019 at 10:02 AM, jypsijemini said:

Absolutely!

You initiate such a powerful shift when one is able to take a step back and just observe the room. You begin to really gain and insight that is impossible when you are emotionally invested in the situation. It's just a matter of re-training your mind. You might benefit from the use of a word or an image that can help trigger this new coping mechanism - like "Retreat!" or "Time to get back in my bubble". Imagine that your bubble is safe and impenetrable. You can interact from inside of it if you wish, but nobody's getting in no matter how hard they try. Or similarly, imagine yourself retreating back to your fort. It's bullet-proof. It's camouflaged. You're completely safe from any attack. You're secure now to observe the field and plan your next move in your own time.

This sort of intention and manifestation can be incredibly powerful. You've released your intention and taken back control in the only way that you can when presented with situations like this. It allows you to step back, take a breath and regroup. You don't even have to listen to what they're saying - you can just act like you are and focus on something like observing the emotions that you notice through their facial expressions, observe their body language - and if you want to allow yourself to listen, what kind of words are they using to express themselves and what are they trying to convey? Where is this coming from?

I like to calm myself down with empathic thoughts like, "I wonder what their day's been like today. Maybe they've had a rough day/week/month/year/life. I wonder what sort of background they've come from. I wonder who's spoken to them like this in the past."

I used to take everything personally. If someone was having a bad day, it was my fault and only I could fix it. I took so much upon myself! Just one look from somebody could ruin me. What had I done to them?! How could I make it better? Have I upset them somehow? What did I do wrong?

I've come to realise (very slowly but surely) that I cannot change anybody, no matter how much I love or care for them. I've wasted a lot of time with people who never saw my worth, never appreciated my efforts and never loved me back. I've been used and abused a lot. I didn't want it to break me and turn me into someone cold. I didn't want to be one of those people who gets out of a bad relationship with the war cry, "I'll never trust anyone ever again!"

I pride myself by how hard I love and how deep my love really is. I'll never change that. People don't have to earn my trust - they just have to keep it. Sometimes they'll get a second chance if they break it the first time. I'm still learning that some things aren't worthy of a second chance.

It's about self love. Not discounting your worth. It's not a matter of having unachievable expectations and standards - but there's got to be a line that you draw where you're strong enough and confident enough and committed to yourself enough to say "No more. I will not let you treat me that way." It's so tough. It can be heart breaking to have to cut toxic people out of your life. But it's like having to clean an infected wound without painkillers or any anaesthetic. The infection has to go. You can't keep bandaiding it and expecting it to heal itself. It's going to get worse the long you leave it there. It'll take longer if you just expect your immune system to fight it slowly. It'll make you weak because all your energy is going into fighting it.

You've got to bite down and scrape it out. All of it. That's where the analogy ends, because sometimes toxic people will notice your absence and they'll want to change themselves in order to prove they care about you and they're sorry. It's rare, but it can happen. It's a blessing - and ultimately what any of us want.

But you can't allow their toxicity to make you negative and bitter. It's like knowingly ingesting a little bit of poison with every meal and then being surprised when you start to get sick and your body starts to shut down. Even if you have to let them go, do so with as much love and forgiveness as you can muster. That's what you need in your life, and so do they. They don't need you to feed them more of the horrible energy that they're already so consumed by, and you don't deserve to keep suffering when they've exited your life.

It's what @RabidMongoose was getting at - revenge isn't always a bad thing, when it's done instantly and spontaneously. It's just instant karma, and sometimes giving somebody a negative and sharp response can surprise them and make them realise they acted poorly. But it's plotting and dwelling on negativity and revenge which is toxic - particularly for you.

I hated my ex for a long time after two years of abuse. I wished nothing but hell for his life for a long time - and I began to lose the things I loved about myself. It began to turn me into someone I didn't want to be. I realised that if he kept suffering, he'd just continue hurting other people for the rest of his life. That's not what I wanted. Sure, I wanted him to get some sort of retribution for the things he'd put me through - but not at anyone else's expense. That would mean that what I went through was meaningless and fruitless. I wanted something beautiful to sprout out of the ****. And so I forced myself - every time my thoughts gravitated to hate and anger - to mentally send unconditional Universal love instead. I didn't feel it at all. I asked the Universe to help him to find peace, love and forgiveness. That he would learn to love someone the right way, and to be loved in return.

I did this for all the difficult people in my life. It's such a difficult pattern to start and takes a lot of patience and effort to make it into a habit - but it's worth it. The world needs more of it. And on the odd occasion that I've checked up on... okay, stalked the people from my past who I struggled with, the people who hurt me - their lives seem to be getting better and more full of love the more that I focus on wishing that over their lives. One of my co-workers was a good friend of mine but it became alarmingly clear that he was a very toxic, bitter person. I had to cut him out. Initially, he was very upset but months later, I got an apology. It was beautiful to see that it had changed his heart in his own time without me having to confront or judge him. It didn't repair the friendship by any means but I knew that sending good vibes was a much better way of dealing with it for us both.

I had to ask myself: who am I to judge whether someone is deserving of Love or not? I've done and said horrible things as well. Maybe not to that degree, but who am I to rate their wrongs? And again, I would rather see them go on to become loving, gracious, caring people than to see them suffer just so I can feel like they got what they deserved for hurting me because chances are, they'll just go on to hurt other people.

Hurt people hurt people. And loved people tend to love people. They are not rules. There are many exceptions to those statements, I know. But all I can do is love as hard as I can, care as much as I'm able, and always remember to love myself and stay true to my own worth. Some people aren't a good enough influence to remain in your life.

I would just like to add some further comments,

Some people will read your advice about emotionally detaching from a situation but struggle to apply it. Some will struggle to stop themselves replaying incidents in their mind again and again. Some will struggle to stop themselves feeling angry or anxious.

For all those people trying to apply emotional detachment but struggling know that it takes time. Over the years you have been trained to emotionally attach which has laid down attachment brain cells. It takes time to atrophy those changes away and replace them we detachment brain cells. 

If you start trying to do this today every time you have an interaction with a difficult person then you will slip up. When you do, refocus and carry on trying to emotionally detach. You will have lots of slip ups and have to refocus again and again. Just keep at it, it strengthens over time becoming easier. If you have days when you lapse then not to worry, collect yourself at the first opportunity and return to emotional detachment.

If you adopt the above approach you will start to notice a difference after just a few days. Adopt the approach and keep it in place for the rest of your life. Despite your slipups your emotional detachment will continue to strengthen more and more. When you have been doing it a couple of years then you wont even blink an eye when interacting with a difficult person.

To help you further than realise you do not have to win in every situation in life. If someone is vile towards you, you dont have to get revenge. The universe isn't going to end just because you didnt come out on top. And if things get to much for you such that you take revenge to get someone off your case then I place emphasis on not plotting or fantasising about revenge. Revenge should only be done off the cuff because the plotting or fantasising will just dig you deeper into negative emotions.

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Crazy Horse
On 10/27/2019 at 8:15 PM, shephardess said:

I’m sorry, I think I shouldn’t have started this topic. it is very difficult for me to explain things. I think it’s about energy. The energy of a group dynamic. How to hold on to your own energy is what I’m trying to figure out. It’s like trying to play a folk song at a rock concert. I don’t know why but I thought someone might get what I was saying without an example. I apologize for being unable to explain it better. Thanks for trying to understand. 

It can be very difficult for sure.

I can tell you my experience and perhaps you can relate?

When somebody is being difficult, I try not to take it personally and at the same time try to understand them, also I completely believe in karma and so I tend to look at my own actions, to figure out why this is happening to me. And just like when you get food poisoning, you instinctively know what you ate that was bad, normally I come to an understanding, sooner or later.

But so long as you are looking at this stuff, asking questions etc, then it becomes a practice, or a process, and like anything else in life, you will get better at it, (holding your peace, your energy) as times goes by!

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shephardess
23 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

When somebody is being difficult, I try not to take it personally and at the same time try to understand them, also I completely believe in karma and so I tend to look at my own actions, to figure out why this is happening to me. And just like when you get food poisoning, you instinctively know what you ate that was bad, normally I come to an understanding, sooner or later

Right and sometimes what you did “wrong” is simply that you shouldn’t have been around a certain person. Sometimes the right answer is to cut or severely limit contact with an individual. There is a situation for that choice. 

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Crazy Horse
24 minutes ago, shephardess said:

Right and sometimes what you did “wrong” is simply that you shouldn’t have been around a certain person. Sometimes the right answer is to cut or severely limit contact with an individual. There is a situation for that choice. 

Absolutely.

In Buddhism they warn us about being around someone who has a bad attitude.

At first I thought that was a little harsh, but now it makes good sense. 

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quiXilver

I find I no longer have the inertia, nor desire to try and alter other people's behaviors or manners of thinking.  This makes relationships far more effortless.  I share of myself authentically.   If this is met with toxicity, I move on.  I don't wish them ill, nor seek retribution for slights.  I just have no inclination to spend what energy I have on such actions.

I would rather put what energy I have into fostering and nurturing what I love.  When this is not possible with a person, I no longer mourn that, I accept it and move on, allowing them to be who and what they are.  It is, in the end, I find, not possible to be other.

This has resulted in relationships being much more effortless and nurturing.  Others are accepted as they are... I accept myself as I uncover myself... if this causes strife, I accept that and move on and do not seek to force.

 

wei wu wei... ancient taoist term for 'action without action'... better translated in my experience as 'doing without forcing'.  It has developed into the operative motive of my relating to others, to much benefit.  I no longer apologize when I do not want to do something, nor explain myself when I do.  Those who respect me do not require them, and those who don't won't regard them anyway.  I let them. 

Lately, if there is work, I work on myself not others and when with them, I share authentically of myself.  This is not due to altruism, but practicality and experience.  When I alter my own perspective, this affects the way I relate to all others I encounter.  As Above, So Below... Heal the Self, Heal the Whole. 

 

 

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