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the13bats

Trump got booed

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Tatetopa
6 hours ago, joc said:

That's right...I'm comparing Jesus to Trump!  Both of them Saviors! Both of them ridiculed by the Left.

Once again you have not studied your history.  Jesus was mocked and taunted by the Romans and the Jewish power elite.  That would be the entrenched conservative Right.  In fact, Jesus would be considered a Leftie socialist if he lived today.

 

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the13bats
44 minutes ago, lightly said:

I doubt impeachment will actually happen. I think maybe the dems are just hoping all the hoopla will at least hurt his serene highnesses' numbers enough to prevent him, and more importantly his owners, from another term.   !   

 If the office is vacated, it would be my guess it may be because trumpykins throws a tantrum and quits.  :lol:

(wishful thinking I suppose)

I considered that if impeachment or some other deeply hot water happened he would do a nixionish move and make a deal to resign, if it includes he can't be prosecuted for anything hes ever done, and try to include his family,

The dems want him out so badly they might go for it,

He could blame dems, deep state, hill Obama, Pokemon etc say he didnt better than all over potus combined and leave with pride ( phesudo )

 

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Doug1029
1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

Exactly!  And how many times is it going to be “yet”?  How many times is the Left going to dig up BS to find him not guilty – YET?

Once.  After he is removed from office he can be formally charged as a criminal.  But talking about that now is getting the cart ahead of the horse.  First he has to be impeached; then he has to be removed from office.

1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

That’s right, Under American law, he is innocent, many times over.  Under Progressive law, “we haven’t found anything that’ll stick – yet”.

Though innocent, he can be impeached by the House and tried by the Senate and removed from office for "high crimes and misdemeanors."  It is the Senate that decides what is a high crime or misdemeanor and they haven't made that determination yet.

After being removed from office, he can be charged, tried and convicted in the criminal courts just like any other citizen.

"Innocent" does not mean that he hasn't done anything for which he could be held criminally liable.  It just means he hasn't been found guilty in a court of law.  This has nothing to do with his impeachment trial.

Doug

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RavenHawk
1 hour ago, Doug1029 said:

Most of what you're saying about progressives is equally true of conservatives.

No, you are incorrect.  That comes from a misunderstanding of the political spectrum.  Progressives are the American Socialist Party.  True Conservatives are remnants of the original Federalist/anti-Federalist paradigm.  The two are incompatible.  The Founding Fathers established a Republic that would be free of the tyranny of Monarchy.  In time Monarchy has evolved into Socialism (and all of its flavors).  In fact, Socialism is merely the Monarchy without the Monarch (no divine right).  The Monarch was just replaced by an oligarchy or ruling elite.  This is the path that the likes of Marx and Engels went.  It was more evolutionary rather than revolutionary.  From about 1913, Socialism began to creep into our system, quite benign though, but that’s how it catches one off-guard.  Slow change.

 

Progressives fear a conservative overthrow of the Constitution. 

That is a contradiction in terms.  Conservatives are the bulwark defenders of the Constitution.  What Progressives fear is the loss of their power.  Who is it that are always in favor of rewriting the Constitution?  It has always been the Left.

 

tRUMP's Alt-right friends look an awful lot like Nazi thugs.

Trump doesn’t have Alt-right friends.  This is a smear tactic by the MSM.  He can’t control who supports him.  But Alt-right and Nazis (And this includes Rinos) are actually just a different wing of the Left.  That might be confusing to you, but that’s where the Progressives want people, to be confused.  And Alt-right and Rinos are useful idiots to the Prog agenda.  That is where they have their greatest power.  The political spectrum that we are used to has Communists on the Left and Fascists on the Right.  This creates confusion.  It’s not what makes Communists/Fascists different that is important.  It is what makes them the same.  This is vital if you want to clear up the confusion.  Both seek to steal the freedoms and rights from the people they rule.  The real political spectrum has 0% government control at one end and 100% government control at the other.  To make things easier, consider the Left going toward the 100% end.  That is appropriate.  So what you have is that no matter where any government begins on this spectrum, the tendency is for it to drift toward the 100% (total government) end unless there is something that stops it from drifting.  What causes it to drift in the first place is human nature.  Periodically you get a revolution that halts this progression and in some cases, causes it to reverse direction for a time.  Our Constitution anchors government and prevents it from drifting.  The Founding Fathers knew what they were doing.  The Progressives want to cut that anchor.  But the Left loves to confuse the issue by creating a false relationship between Trump and groups like the Alt-right.

 

There is a reason Progressives do not negotiate: 

Yes, there is.  They do not want to share power.  If they do, the progression to total government would be halted.

 

to negotiate you need someone who is willing to negotiate on the other side and conservatives haven't been inclined to do that since Daddy Bush left office.

Actually the Republicans (or Rinos that have controlled the Party) capitulate to the Socialists all the time.  Occasionally, they put up a fight but it is for show only.  That’s negotiation as far as the Progressives are concerned.  There are not that many Republicans with a backbone.  Trump is showing them how to do it.

 

Nobody, Sanders or AOC has proposed a Socialist bill. 

*ALL* the candidates have.   They want to give even illegals free healthcare and take away all our guns.  That is a recipe for disaster.

 

Everything they are talking about would have fit under the New Deal or the WPA.

The New Deal was Socialism.  Socialism progressed from Wilson, to FDR, to Johnson, to Obama, getting more radical with every generation.

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Doug1029
1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

OMG!!!  Off with his head!  Is that it?  That is a coup – treason!  Guilt or innocence is very relevant to impeachment.

A President can be impeached and removed from office without ever having committed a crime.  Simple incompetence is enough, though completely legal.  It is not treasonable because no enemy is involved and it is accomplished as prescribed by the Constitution.  Legal guilt or innocence is a separate issue and will not be determined until after he is removed from office.

1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

And the Senate has already spoken on that.  They’ll eagerly hear the evidence and Trump will get Due Process, but it won’t get that far, because the Progressives have no evidence.  Schiff should be heavily censured.

Some Senators have spoken in favor of tRUMP.  Some more have spoken against him.  Most are being cautious and not committing themselves.  The Senate officially speaks its mind in the removal trial and that hasn't happened yet; though, it's a pretty safe bet that it will - probably before Christmas.

1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

The purpose of impeachment is to remove a President if he is guilty of breaking laws ("High crimes and misdemeanors").  Or are you admitting that the House has no real evidence?

Legal guilt or innocence is determined after the President leaves office, whether by removal by the Senate, resignation, losing an election or simply expiration of his term.  Even if tRUMP wins the trial in the Senate, he still has to face the voters in 2020 and if he wins that one, he will still leave office in 2025.  After any of those he can be arrested, charged and tried in criminal court.  And even if he wins all those, he still has an armload of civil trials to face.  Whatever happens, he's going to be busy for a very long time.

The phrase "high crimes and misdemeanors" does not refer to the regular criminal acts.  A President can commit what is normally a criminal act and if the Senate does not consider it a high crime or misdemeanor, he remains in office.  Or the Senate can remove him for doing something it considers a high crime, even though that thing is legal otherwise.  The Senate, alone, may impose an ex post facto penalty on a President - something nobody else has the authority to do.

2 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Additional trials may occur if the President’s guilt is severe enough.  To reiterate, Trump hasn’t committed any "High crimes and misdemeanors".

We don't know that yet because the Senate hasn't said.  It will say during the trial phase.

2 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Are you seriously trying to compare Nixon with Trump?  The real scandal is the real Russian Collusion, which makes Watergate and Teapot Dome look minor and Durham is about to pull the trigger on that.

In Nixon's case, no criminal trial followed his resignation because Gerald Ford issued a blanket pardon.  With 20/20 hindsight, he was probably right.  A criminal trial of an ex-President would have severely strained the country.  But in tRUMP's case, his successor may not feel that way and let him be tried.  Certainly, soliciting a foreign government to help his campaign could fit into that category.

Collusion is legal.  We can talk about breaking the law all day long.  That's collusion and perfectly legal.  When we agree to break the law, that's conspiracy and is illegal.  Mueller declined to declare tRUMP guilty because, in view of the DOJ memo, he did not feel it was his job.  Instead, he listed the things that might be considered illegal and, in effect, told the House to grab its courage and decide for itself.  This the House declined to do, letting tRUMP get away with everything in the Mueller report.  He can still be impeached over those things, but I doubt it's going to happen.  Once out of office, he can be tried for anything in there that a prosecutor thinks is illegal.  That is the more-likely outcome.

Doug

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Doug1029
8 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

No, you are incorrect.  That comes from a misunderstanding of the political spectrum.  Progressives are the American Socialist Party.  True Conservatives are remnants of the original Federalist/anti-Federalist paradigm.  The two are incompatible.  The Founding Fathers established a Republic that would be free of the tyranny of Monarchy.  In time Monarchy has evolved into Socialism (and all of its flavors).  In fact, Socialism is merely the Monarchy without the Monarch (no divine right).  The Monarch was just replaced by an oligarchy or ruling elite.  This is the path that the likes of Marx and Engels went.  It was more evolutionary rather than revolutionary.  From about 1913, Socialism began to creep into our system, quite benign though, but that’s how it catches one off-guard.  Slow change.

I am a Progressive and a Democrat.  I am a democratic socialist in philosophy, but not in name and I am not a member of any socialist organization.  My grandparents were Wobblies and my family has a strong union proclivity.

Progressives are not Socialists, though there are some similarities in philosophy.

Socialists were anti-Monarchy - remember Czar Alexander, the Russian Revolution and the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand that set off WWI?  Socialists spent 400 years trying to overthrow the Romanovs.  They screwed up in the assassination of Czar Alexander.  He was on his way to free the surfs when he was killed.  Socialists figured prominently in the Russian Revolution - on both sides.  Did you know that America sent a regiment to fight in the Russian Revolution?  Gavrilo Princip was a Socialist.

Socialism lost out in America in 1905 at the Chicago convention.  The International Workers of the World (IWW or Wobblies) wanted workers to buy out their respective industries.  It was to be a peaceful transition.  But the AFL/CIO voted for the union system in which capitalists retained ownership of industry.  Since then, America has been capitalist.

Marx was the godfather of communism while Engels wrote up his ideas.  Communism espouses the "dictatorship of the proletariat."  The original idea was that the proletariat would be the dictators, but that somehow got turned on its head with the proletariat beinbg the ones who were dictated to.  At any rate, communism is anti-democratic while socialism is democratic.

38 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

That is a contradiction in terms.  Conservatives are the bulwark defenders of the Constitution.  What Progressives fear is the loss of their power.  Who is it that are always in favor of rewriting the Constitution?  It has always been the Left.

Conservatives are the ones who send police in military gear to make trouble at peaceful rallies.  We had one of them, a member of the city council, try to make it illegal to protest the US involvement in tRUMP's wars.  Fortuanetly, his son-in-law was a constitutional lawyer and straightened him out.

Speaking as a liberal, I feared that tRUMP and his allies might try to overthrow the government.  Thanks to the investigation, I am seeing that his allies aren't all that reliable.  If we have Seven Days in May, tRUMP will probably not be part of it - nobody trusts him to keep his mouth shut.

The difference between Progressives and Conservatives is that Progressives think the Bill of Rights applies to everybody, while conservatives think it means only those with money and power.

The Constitution does need some amendments:  we should try again on the Equal Rights Amendment.  Health care and nutrition should be universal rights, not something only for the rich.  And we need to further strengthen free speech and the right to peaceably assemble.  As it stands, tRUMP can cross state lines to incite a riot, while protesters cannot.  Considering the advocay of violence at tRUMP's rallies, all the local cops would have to do is read them the Riot Act and they could be arrested and jailed for its violation.

50 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Trump doesn’t have Alt-right friends.  This is a smear tactic by the MSM.  He can’t control who supports him.  But Alt-right and Nazis (And this includes Rinos) are actually just a different wing of the Left.  That might be confusing to you, but that’s where the Progressives want people, to be confused.  And Alt-right and Rinos are useful idiots to the Prog agenda.  That is where they have their greatest power.  The political spectrum that we are used to has Communists on the Left and Fascists on the Right.  This creates confusion.  It’s not what makes Communists/Fascists different that is important.  It is what makes them the same.  This is vital if you want to clear up the confusion.  Both seek to steal the freedoms and rights from the people they rule.  The real political spectrum has 0% government control at one end and 100% government control at the other.  To make things easier, consider the Left going toward the 100% end.  That is appropriate.  So what you have is that no matter where any government begins on this spectrum, the tendency is for it to drift toward the 100% (total government) end unless there is something that stops it from drifting.  What causes it to drift in the first place is human nature.  Periodically you get a revolution that halts this progression and in some cases, causes it to reverse direction for a time.  Our Constitution anchors government and prevents it from drifting.  The Founding Fathers knew what they were doing.  The Progressives want to cut that anchor.  But the Left loves to confuse the issue by creating a false relationship between Trump and groups like the Alt-right.

What is MSM?  You rightists talk in acronyms unknown to the real world.

tRUMP can denounce the Alt-right and the Nazis, but he doesn't.  He didn't have to hire Steve Bannon, but he did.

RINOs are a different wing of the left?  Whose cool-aid have you been drinking?

Your whole paragraph is pretty-much gibberish.

1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

*ALL* the candidates have.   They want to give even illegals free healthcare and take away all our guns.  That is a recipe for disaster.

Being Progressive does not make something Socialist.  I suppose you are confused about the New Deal which was FDR's way to save capitalism by putting a human face on it.  That face is starting to droop, showing the real nature of the beast (greed) underneath.  That explains the sudden popularity of Socialism.  People are seeing capitalism for what it is.

Illegals do a lot of needed work.  They pay into Social Security, but do not receive it (You can give any old number on a job application, but to collect, you have to have a real account.).  Most illegals don't stay here long enough to amass the minimum 40 quarters needed to draw Social Security.  So what is the problem with including them in a required health care insurance plan - paid for out of wages.  You are proving the liberal contention that conservatives have no compassion.

Nobody is talking about taking away your guns - except for AK-47s - although, maybe we should.  If owning a gun made you safer, America would be the safest country on earth.  We have about 1.2 guns PER PERSON.  But that statistic is a little misleading.  78% of us don't own a gun.  That means that on average, gun owners each have seven or eight guns (My Dad did.).  But that is misleading, too, because most gun owners have only two or three.  And that means that a huge proportion of guns are held by people owning 20 or more guns - weapons caches.  What sort of war are they getting ready for?  I think we need to put a top limit on the number of guns one can own without being a licensed collector.  I don't believe that protecting your gun hobby is worth sacrificing our school kids for.  That gun hobby is already producing disasters - you can read about some of them in your daily paper, but most aren't even reported.  Think:  a split-second before he pulled the trigger, that "mass murderer" was a "law-abiding citizen."  How do we keep "law-abiding citizens" from killing us?

1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

The New Deal was Socialism.  Socialism progressed from Wilson, to FDR, to Johnson, to Obama, getting more radical with every generation.

Like I said:  whose cool-aid have you been drinking?  None of those people were Socialists.  If FDR had wanted to convert the country to Socialism, he could have done it.  Hughey Long was trying to and might have succeeded had he not been killed.

I think I see your problem.  FDR's only Socialist programs were the creation of the Tennessee Valley Authority, Columbia River Dams and two dams on the Colorado River.  These were government projects and the government owns and controls them to this day.  The WPA, CCCs and the like were employment programs, just the govt hiring more people on a temporary basis.  Like the USFS puts on summer crews for fire-fighting, trail maintenance, timber cruising, thinning etc.  They lay them off when the job is done.  That's what happened to the rest of FDRs programs.  The New Deal was definitely NOT Socialist.

Doug

 

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GoldenWolf
3 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Once again you have not studied your history.  Jesus was mocked and taunted by the Romans and the Jewish power elite.  That would be the entrenched conservative Right.  In fact, Jesus would be considered a Leftie socialist if he lived today.

 

Could have just had the same mentality, but was considered to be weak for the elites.

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Desertrat56
5 hours ago, GoldenWolf said:

Just think, before Jesus got whipped, he was whipping others in a temple.  :whistle:

Wait, what?  You are comparing Trump to Jesus?

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Doug1029
6 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Wait, what?  You are comparing Trump to Jesus?

No.  He's comparing tRUMP to the Roman with the whip.

Doug

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Manwon Lender
14 hours ago, joc said:

it's also interesting that the same crowd that lauded over Jesus, throwing out palm leaves in front of him...one week later were yelling Crucify him!

That's right...I'm comparing Jesus to Trump!  Both of them Saviors! Both of them ridiculed by the Left.  Both of them persecuted and brought up on false charges.  The only difference is...they crucified Jesus...Trump fights back...WHAM!  

You have gone a little to far comparing President Trump to Jesus but to each his own. I know it's very hard for you to understand how something like this could happen to your Savior. However, it's really easy to explain, when he went to that Base Ball game and he wasn't in the controlled environment he is noramally in, and there were people present who were not his supporters. That about some sit up, he's not the first President this happened to and he won't be the last.

i think berating the President of the United States in public is in poor taste like I have said in previous posts to this thread. Even if you don't respect the man, the title and office should be treated with respect. This incident is very similar to how he acts when berating others in front of his supporters, so maybe he received a little of his own medicine. The look on his face was priceless, it obviously caused him some major discomfort, and still I don't find it funny, but I think he got what he deserved.

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2019/10/donald-trump-world-series-boo-face

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Manwon Lender
15 hours ago, joc said:

it's also interesting that the same crowd that lauded over Jesus, throwing out palm leaves in front of him...one week later were yelling Crucify him!

That's right...I'm comparing Jesus to Trump!  Both of them Saviors! Both of them ridiculed by the Left.  Both of them persecuted and brought up on false charges.  The only difference is...they crucified Jesus...Trump fights back...WHAM!  

Since you are bring up the Bible, The more I think of it we must be in the end times with the Rapture just around the corner. The Bible says that men will arise that are compared to the savior, maybe he is the anti-Christ. I think you should check him for the mark, I would suspect it's on his head covered by his comb over.

Get back to us on this it's truly important. :rolleyes:

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Bed of chaos

Those hippies would probably burn the american flag for five minutes of fame. Just kidding (I probably look/act like hippie, hair/beard). Anyway I dont know..have all the answers. People protest everywhere. Trump I'm still trying to figure out..perhaps I'm just clueless. I've previously said horrible things about Bush and Clintons. Have friends on both sides. Only thing I'm confident about..election will be very, very, interesting.

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and then
17 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

I think it is a sad day when any President gets booed by the American public.

I think it's an indication that we have a healthy, robust democracy on display.  If people think they booed him today, imagine what they'll be doing next November if he gets re-elected :w00t:

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Manwon Lender
6 minutes ago, and then said:

I think it's an indication that we have a healthy, robust democracy on display.  If people think they booed him today, imagine what they'll be doing next November if he gets re-elected :w00t:

I agree it does indicate a healthy and robust democracy, but I hope whether he gets elected or not that things remain peaceful.

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Manwon Lender
41 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

This. I hope, intensely, as the filth and utter corruption has to come out or we are doomed, and it has to start somewhere. I am neither  Repub nor a Dem, nor do I mean this as that it is all dems who will fall, just that it HAS TO begin to start turning over the soil to reveal the maggots underneath for all our sakes. I expect bad actors from all sides and under all rocks. There are few angels in DC. Few seem to recall at all that they are there for us, not themselves nor their blooming careers, reputations or nest eggs.

We MUST get more integrity in DC or we may as well forget it.

JMO.

That's a great post, thanks for sharing.

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Manwon Lender
20 hours ago, joc said:

Really?

Let me clarify.  Jesus was a pacifist.  They crucified him.  Trump isn't a pacifist...he fights back...and that is why we love him!  

It is not a matter of like or dislike...make no mistake...I LOVE the man!  He is the greatest fighter since Muhammad Ali!  He floats like a butterfly and stings like an Apache Helicopter.  And he LOVES the United States of America.  All you need to do to get Trump is watch one rally.

So all you need to do is watch one Rally. I have watched more than a single Rally, and I do love how he places his actors directly behind the podium where he speaks. I also love the little signs that they hold up like, Blacks for Trump, Women for Trump, Christians for Trump, Immigrants for Trump and on and on. I know it's just politics and staging such things is normal, but it's also funny. Because on the few occasions they pan the crowd in front of the President people don't have those signs.

Like I said it's politics right! :lol:

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bee
9 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

So all you need to do is watch one Rally. I have watched more than a single Rally, and I do love how he places his actors directly behind the podium where he speaks. I also love the little signs that they hold up like, Blacks for Trump, Women for Trump, Christians for Trump, Immigrants for Trump and on and on. I know it's just politics and staging such things is normal, but it's also funny. Because on the few occasions they pan the crowd in front of the President people don't have those signs.

Like I said it's politics right! :lol:

 

this is a random video of a Trump Rally and there are signs (and MAGA hats) in other places around the crowd -
although of course there is going to be a good show behind Trump for obvious reasons...

they don't have to be 'actors' though... just supporters with signs... ?

Tuesday, October 2, 2018: President Donald J. Trump holds a campaign style rally at The Landers Center in Southaven, MS.

 

 

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bee
32 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I know it's just politics and staging such things is normal, but it's also funny. Because on the few occasions they pan the crowd in front of the President people don't have those signs.

 

and lots of signs and American flags outside the rally venues...
 

 

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Manwon Lender
34 minutes ago, bee said:

 

and lots of signs and American flags outside the rally venues...
 

 

 

34 minutes ago, bee said:

 

and lots of signs and American flags outside the rally venues...
 

 

Yea, but their not the same as the paid actors behind the Podium. 

By the way do you also compare our President to Jesus?

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Manwon Lender
42 minutes ago, bee said:

 

this is a random video of a Trump Rally and there are signs (and MAGA hats) in other places around the crowd -
although of course there is going to be a good show behind Trump for obvious reasons...

they don't have to be 'actors' though... just supporters with signs... ?

Tuesday, October 2, 2018: President Donald J. Trump holds a campaign style rally at The Landers Center in Southaven, MS.

 

 

If it helps you sleep at night, as they say whatever gets you through the night, its alright, it's alright.

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bee
32 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

 

Yea, but their not the same as the paid actors behind the Podium.

 

look at the enthusiastic crowds... do you really think Team Trump need to PAY people to stand 
behind the podium with signs... it would more likely be the other way round...

Not saying this happened but saying it's MORE likely... that people themselves would be willing to
pay to hold the signs behind the podium and be on permanent record for being at the rallies...
(ie make a contribution to election fund)

The videos would then be passed on through the generations of families proud to have been there
and supporting Trump....''''''' look, this is when Great Grandma helped to Make America Great''''
 

etc... :)

 

 

Edited by bee
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Manwon Lender
1 hour ago, bee said:

 

look at the enthusiastic crowds... do you really think Team Trump need to PAY people to stand 
behind the podium with signs... it would more likely be the other way round...

Not saying this happened but saying it's MORE likely... that people themselves would be willing to
pay to hold the signs behind the podium and be on permanent record for being at the rallies...
(ie make a contribution to election fund)

The videos would then be passed on through the generations of families proud to have been there
and supporting Trump....''''''' look, this is when Great Grandma helped to Make America Great''''
 

etc... :)

 

 

You are a kind person very respectful. You could be right, however, with the racial mix and the way it's all set up I do beleive it's a political stunt. Now I'm not saying he's the only one who does it, but he certainly puts on a good show.

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Robotic Jew
22 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Then maybe you should give it a rest.

Good one.

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the13bats
5 hours ago, bee said:

 

this is a random video of a Trump Rally and there are signs (and MAGA hats) in other places around the crowd -
although of course there is going to be a good show behind Trump for obvious reasons...

they don't have to be 'actors' though... just supporters with signs... ?

Tuesday, October 2, 2018: President Donald J. Trump holds a campaign style rally at The Landers Center in Southaven, MS.

 

 

Fake news...obamas fault, Hillary's too, Mexico will pay for the wall...

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