UK General Election -

[Unusual Tournament]

6 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

To ensure the Brexit Party dont split the leave vote resulting the in red moron becoming PM.

Oh i get reminded of Greece and its then Prime Minister, Tsipras when i hear this. He was the darling of the left and a personal friend of Corbyn's and look at what happened there. Reality made him comfort and his ideology quickly became irrelevant. I really don't think how a socialist can do much damage to a modern capitalist state in this day and age that would radically change the country. Id be more concerned with Farage becoming PM and his pro American privatisation and anti European and foreigner rhetoric. Thats where the real threat is.   

[Duke Wellington]

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

Oh i get reminded of Greece and its then Prime Minister, Tsipras when i hear this. He was the darling of the left and a personal friend of Corbyn's and look at what happened there. Reality made him comfort and his ideology quickly became irrelevant. I really don't think how a socialist can do much damage to a modern capitalist state in this day and age that would radically change the country. Id be more concerned with Farage becoming PM and his pro American privatisation and anti European and foreigner rhetoric. Thats where the real threat is.   

Here on planet Earth we all remember what life was like in the 1970s under the last PM who shared the same political ideology as Corbyn.

Maybe you are too young a whippersnapper? If so, it only goes to show why the voting age shouldn't be lowered. Back in the 1970s things were horrendous due to unions awarding their employees at state owned businesses year on year pay rises of between 10% and 20%. It peaked in what is called the Winter of Discontent where constant striking was crippling the state.

Those Reds hate Margaret Thatcher for privatising their industries and the resultant lack of industry that Britain now has. They dont blame themselves for being unable to practice self-restraint because with them, everything is always the fault of other people. The corrupt businesses, the mean capitalists, the selfish and greedy professionals. The mental derangement called socialism is about devaluing other people as bad so that it can be justified in redistributing their wealth away to people of little practical value towards the functioning of society.

I would rather emigrate to the USA and live under Trump than have to exist in that red dystopian hell.

Trump is great! Capitalism is the greatest financial and social system ever devised. Socialism is morally corrupt, inefficient, and ruins states.

Edited November 1, 2019 by RabidMongoose

[itsnotoutthere]

 

"Here on planet Earth we all remember what life was like in the 1970s under the last PM who shared the same political ideology as Corbyn.

Maybe you are too a young whippersnapper? If so, it only goes to show why the voting age shouldn't be lowered. Back in the 1970s things were horrendous due to unions awarding their employees at state owned businesses year on year pay rises of between 10% and 20%. It peaked in what is called the Winter of Discontent where constant striking was crippling the state"

Yes i'm old enough to remember that....never again.

 

Wasn't it Churchill who said. " the problem with socialism is that they always run out of other peoples money "  True now as it ever was.

Edited November 1, 2019 by itsnotoutthere

[L.A.T.1961]

Poll out from Panelbase today sees the Brexit Party down to single figures, and the Lib Dems falling from 17 to just 14%, Labour up 2% on 29% and Tories at 40%, up 4%.

https://order-order.com/section/guido-fawkes/

[itsnotoutthere]

3 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

Poll out from Panelbase today sees the Brexit Party down to single figures, and the Lib Dems falling from 17 to just 14%, Labour up 2% on 29% and Tories at 40%, up 4%.

https://order-order.com/section/guido-fawkes/

Not surprised, people just want it done & over with.

[Setton]

3 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

This also ignores the fact that UK is independently a top 5 sized world economy. Why would the US put others in front of the UK and who are they? China, Russia? both states have a less attractive and trustworthy government.   

You forget that a UK/US deal would be starting from scratch. When Obama was speaking, the US was already in the middle of several other negotiations. Why wouldn't they close those deals first before taking on another massive project?

[L.A.T.1961]

Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson to go head-to-head in the first televised debate of the election campaign on ITV - Tuesday, November 19.

Later that evening ITV will broadcast a live interview-based programme in which other parties will be able to comment on the head-to-head debate and set out their own electoral agenda.

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-11-01/jeremy-corbyn-and-boris-johnson-to-go-head-to-head-in-itv-debate/ 

BBC,SKY and CH4 will not be happy. 

[L.A.T.1961]

4 minutes ago, Setton said:

You forget that a UK/US deal would be starting from scratch. When Obama was speaking, the US was already in the middle of several other negotiations. Why wouldn't they close those deals first before taking on another massive project?

I don't believe that the US can only look at one trade deal at a time?

One option was a deal based on TTIP which, if it had gone ahead and the UK had still been in the EU, would have been the deal that the UK would have traded with the US anyhow.

Or the UK could look at the NAFTA deal, the world's largest free trade agreement.

[Setton]

6 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

I don't believe that the US can only look at one trade deal at a time?

No, but they will prioritise the ones closest to closing. 

The UK would not be one so would not be a priority. One could even say it would be at the back of the queue. 

[bee]

 

The Brexit Party has launched their Election Campaign and Farage has offered to form a
Leave Alliance with Johnson and the Tories... if they drop the Deal and go for a Clean Break
brexit... saying that would ensure a healthy majority - if they don't then he has said that the Brexit
Party will field candidates in all constituencies...

who will blink first - the stakes are high...

Boris has apparently rejected the Alliance offer and so it looks like the Brexit Party will go for it..

???

 

 

[Duke Wellington]

Its joke time.

An Englishman, an Irishman, and a Scotsman walk into a bar. Then they all had to go because the Englishman wanted to leave lol.

An Englishman decided to go on a Brexit diet. I bet the pounds will drop fast lol.

Edited November 1, 2019 by RabidMongoose

[bee]

 

I just happened to catch Nigel talking to Jeremy Vine on Radio 2 when I was in the car...
and he means business.... and who can blame him -

why should Farage and the Brexit Party support a deal / treaty that they don't consider real Brexit..?

Just so Boris can (if he's lucky) stay PM and get the country locked into something that at the end
of the day might be worse than remaining...

The Leave vote will be split and the Remain vote will be split...

we could end up with another hung parliament and the same deadlock we have now...

sorry I can't get into the ''''Boris is going to do it'''' euphoria .... because that's what we all
thought about Theresa May in 2017... and that all went pearshaped... 
 

Edited November 1, 2019 by bee

[bee]

 

So what's it going to be....

Clean Break Brexit..............or................ Corbyn as PM.........?

See his happy little face when he's campaigning on the streets and loving every minute.... 

 

[Setton]

1 hour ago, bee said:

we could end up with another hung parliament

Good. Its the only thing that actually reflects public opinion and might lead to genuine compromise. 

[+and-then]

I may be misunderstanding the dynamics here but isn't this just a way to get a "re-do" on Brexit?  Or maybe it's just necessary, since the current Parliament cannot reach a decision and a shuffle of members is hoped to help get a decision?

[bee]

'It's EU or me': Farage hands UK PM Brexit ultimatum
 

 

[bee]

2 hours ago, Setton said:

Good. Its the only thing that actually reflects public opinion and might lead to genuine compromise. 

 

Couldn't Boris' Deal / Treaty be seen that way..... Leaving a little bit but not really leaving,,

but in reality the Boris Deal is emerging as an outcome worse than leaving properly or remaining as we were..?

what would you suggest is a 'genuine compromise'...?

[bee]

1 hour ago, and then said:

I may be misunderstanding the dynamics here but isn't this just a way to get a "re-do" on Brexit?  Or maybe it's just necessary, since the current Parliament cannot reach a decision and a shuffle of members is hoped to help get a decision?

 

bolded above would be about right,,, although a decision was actually made on 23rd June 2016 by the voting public -
it's just that the majority of MPs have failed to deliver because they didn't like the result... ie leaving the EU...
 

[Unusual Tournament]

8 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

Here on planet Earth we all remember what life was like in the 1970s under the last PM who shared the same political ideology as Corbyn.

Maybe you are too young a whippersnapper? If so, it only goes to show why the voting age shouldn't be lowered. Back in the 1970s things were horrendous due to unions awarding their employees at state owned businesses year on year pay rises of between 10% and 20%. It peaked in what is called the Winter of Discontent where constant striking was crippling the state.

Those Reds hate Margaret Thatcher for privatising their industries and the resultant lack of industry that Britain now has. They dont blame themselves for being unable to practice self-restraint because with them, everything is always the fault of other people. The corrupt businesses, the mean capitalists, the selfish and greedy professionals. The mental derangement called socialism is about devaluing other people as bad so that it can be justified in redistributing their wealth away to people of little practical value towards the functioning of society.

I would rather emigrate to the USA and live under Trump than have to exist in that red dystopian hell.

Trump is great! Capitalism is the greatest financial and social system ever devised. Socialism is morally corrupt, inefficient, and ruins states.

...modern capitalism is not like the 70's. There's this symbiosis in world markets and trade that even the slightest whisper of nationalisation and extra tax will send a country quickly into free fall. Just won't happen. BTW i though you were too young to remember the 70's. Learn something new every day i guess. 

Living under Trump. LOL. At this comedy show not long ago where the comedian lost faith in his father when they left Romania for the good and free life in  Cuba and then moved to South Africa. I guess you'll have a funny story to tell too. 

[Duke Wellington]

7 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

...modern capitalism is not like the 70's. There's this symbiosis in world markets and trade that even the slightest whisper of nationalisation and extra tax will send a country quickly into free fall. Just won't happen. BTW i though you were too young to remember the 70's. Learn something new every day i guess. 

Living under Trump. LOL. At this comedy show not long ago where the comedian lost faith in his father when they left Romania for the good and free life in  Cuba and then moved to South Africa. I guess you'll have a funny story to tell too. 

What a strange answer from you.

I was talking about 1970s socialism (not capitalism) , how Corbyn shares in that 1970s style of socialism ideology, and therefore why he should never be allowed anywhere near 10 Downing Street. In the UK nationalism has become a dirty word by those who cannot grasp that everything from anti-immigration to patriotism exists on a scale. Such that the worst most negative possible scenarios are imagined and expounded in the media towards all political thinking not pro-EU, pro-immigration, pro-Small Britain, pro-Weak Britain. They live in a mentally deficient world of black and white thinking where they cannot see all the shades in between.

Trump has a wonderful history of performance on the American economy despite the fact the left constantly trying to forecast an economic meltdown from his policies. What are the cry babies doing now? Clutching at straws again as they desperately try and find something to impeach him with. Trump is the most decent US President since Reagan (maybe even better), he is performing on the economy, he deserves the Nobel Peace Prize for sorting out North Korea, he has rebuilt the military, he winds the left up like never before, and for all of that he is the most harassed President in US history.

People dont harass incompetent fools to get rid of them, they get rid of themselves.

[stevewinn]

We are just three days before all MP's in this parliament are sacked and then have to appeal to the people for their vote to regain their job.

Already we listen to them on the TV Radio appealing for those votes, but my god, its like looney tunes. the calibre of politician is gutter level. listening to them not having a bloody clue, half of them still think their in the debating rooms at cambridge, with wishy washy policies that dont bring this country prosperity, we wake to the NEWs fracking is now being postponed in the UK, instead where going to buy our gas from the U.S, Russia, Middle east more of our money flowing out of the country. up until we joined the EEC, every British govt seen fit to control the flow of capital and money out of this country. But here we have a political class who argue we should hand over £39Bn to the EU, or remain in keep paying them £13.2bn a year for a £90billion a year trade deficit, Do these politicians even understand what it takes to run a £2.4Trillion Economy? It seems not, they run away from responsibility when the people of the UK voted to regain all powers and control from the EU and hand it back to our parliament. Did these MP's grasp this opportunity with both hands? No, they shy away, proving just how worthless they are to this country.

Now we go into an election where the option of No Deal is unavailable, getting it off the table as been achieved. its either Boris's New treaty or a Corbyn Govt. This country has been inflicted by some of the worse decisions imaginable over the last three and a half years. It appears our politicians have learnt nothing.

Our system is not set up for an upset, This election is simply between the Tories and Labour. we just need Labour to be wiped out in the North like they have been in Wales.

 

 

 

[Duke Wellington]

2 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

We are just three days before all MP's in this parliament are sacked and then have to appeal to the people for their vote to regain their job.

Already we listen to them on the TV Radio appealing for those votes, but my god, its like looney tunes. the calibre of politician is gutter level. listening to them not having a bloody clue, half of them still think their in the debating rooms at cambridge, with wishy washy policies that dont bring this country prosperity, we wake to the NEWs fracking is now being postponed in the UK, instead where going to buy our gas from the U.S, Russia, Middle east more of our money flowing out of the country. up until we joined the EEC, every British govt seen fit to control the flow of capital and money out of this country. But here we have a political class who argue we should hand over £39Bn to the EU, or remain in keep paying them £13.2bn a year for a £90billion a year trade deficit, Do these politicians even understand what it takes to run a £2.4Trillion Economy? It seems not, they run away from responsibility when the people of the UK voted to regain all powers and control from the EU and hand it back to our parliament. Did these MP's grasp this opportunity with both hands? No, they shy away, proving just how worthless they are to this country.

Now we go into an election where the option of No Deal is unavailable, getting it off the table as been achieved. its either Boris's New treaty or a Corbyn Govt. This country has been inflicted by some of the worse decisions imaginable over the last three and a half years. It appears our politicians have learnt nothing.

Our system is not set up for an upset, This election is simply between the Tories and Labour. we just need Labour to be wiped out in the North like they have been in Wales.

With all the Brexit limbo going on...

Notice how no one said anything about our national debt passing £2.2 trillion.

[stevewinn]

9 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

With all the Brexit limbo going on...

Notice how no one said anything about our national debt passing £2.2 trillion.

equally no one will have noticed under Maastricht,

The UK was under EU budget control from 2008 when Decision 2008/713 stated the UK was running an excessive deficit and had to take action to reduce it. The deficit worsened thanks to the great recession, so they reinforced the requirement. They required us to make spending cuts and tax rises worth 1.75% of GDP a year  (£38.5bn a year at current values) from 2010/11 to 2014/15. In 2015 they reviewed the position and renewed the requirement to cut spending or raise taxes as they remained concerned about the level of state debt to GDP. They set specific reducing deficit targets of 4.1% of GDP for 2015-165 and 2.7% of GDP for 2016/17. The UK government always filed the relevant figures and submitted to the discipline imposed, as it is required to do by Treaty .

In 2017 they decided the UK had complied and lifted the excessive deficit plan after a nine year programme of cuts. They however said “As from 2017-18 the UK is subject to the preventive arm of the Stability and Growth Pact and should progress towards the minimum medium term objective at an appropriate pace…and comply with the debt criteria in accordance with Article 2(1a) of Regulation EC No 1467/97.” (i.e. the aim of economic policy had to be to get state borrowing down to 60% of GDP from around 87% over the medium term).

As we come out of the EU this ceases to apply. The UK needs a new fiscal framework which helps us promote growth, jobs and higher real incomes. We need a purpose and guides to economic policy based on these good outcomes for people, not a policy based on getting state debt down as a percentage of GDP.

Of course there needs to be a prudent control on extra debt incurred. There is nothing unstable or unaffordable about current levels of state debt, especially taking in to account around one quarter of the state debt is owned by the Bank of England which in turn is owned by the state!

A sensible rule could be that additional  state borrowing should not exceed the levels of public sector investment. The government will ensure the current account of the government is in surplus or balance. On 2020-21 figures from the last Red Book this gives the state the opportunity to borrow 3% of GDP, the forecast level of investment, which would allow a sensible fiscal expansion. Tax cuts of around £10bn on top of the spending increases announced should  be possible. There could be a recession override allowing fiscal stabilisers i.e. a bigger deficit  to apply were there to be a nasty downturn at some time in the future.

Edited November 2, 2019 by stevewinn

[itsnotoutthere]

28 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

With all the Brexit limbo going on...

Notice how no one said anything about our national debt passing £2.2 trillion.

Nobody has also mentioned Germany heading into recession either.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/german-economy-budget-trade-surplus-not-to-be-admired-a7843491.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/04/germanys-massive-trade-surplus-is-becoming-toxic-ifo-director-says.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/11584031/Germanys-record-trade-surplus-is-a-bigger-threat-to-euro-than-Greece.html

https://www.worldfinance.com/markets/unbalanced-books-germanys-controversial-current-account-surplus-has-grown-even-larger

 

Edited November 2, 2019 by itsnotoutthere

[bee]

34 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

Now we go into an election where the option of No Deal is unavailable, getting it off the table as been achieved. its either Boris's New treaty or a Corbyn Govt.

 

Don't you think that with the right MPs it could be made available and put back on the table again... ?

Seeing as it is essentially what was voted for in the referendum..?

I see the logistics.... but I don't think I can stomach voting for a Deal / Treaty that could be actually
worse than Remaining... ie less control than before because we won't be part of the decision making
process....but still tied firmly to the EU one way or another...

At the moment I'm intending to vote for the Brexit Party...

I trust Nigel Farage on this more than I trust Boris Johnson - 
And if the consequence is Corbyn in Number 10... so be it...

Boris will be to blame for not making an alliance with the Brexit Party... 

IMO