UK General Election -

[L.A.T.1961]

3 minutes ago, Setton said:

But they aren't proposing overturning it. They are proposing a confirmatory referendum. 

If the people decide they want that referendum, and decide they want to stay, what right do you, or anyone else, have to overrule that decision? 

Corbyn has said he would re-negotiate, hold a referendum and them campaign to remain in that referendum. 

Remaining would be overturning the original vote to leave. 

Although it would be academic anyhow as there would be no time for another referendum or renegotiation as the EU says no more extensions. As we know remainers view all EU comments as the final word and perfectly sensible so Corbyn is out of options, except agree the Boris deal.    

[itsnotoutthere]

2 hours ago, Setton said:

Tut tut. Shame you can't accept the people's democratic decision. 

Honing your irony skills yet again?

[itsnotoutthere]

17 minutes ago, Setton said:

But they aren't proposing overturning it. They are proposing a confirmatory referendum. 

If the people decide they want that referendum, and decide they want to stay, what right do you, or anyone else, have to overrule that decision? 

And again.

[itsnotoutthere]

18 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

1. Do you want to leave the EU?
2. Would this include a no-deal Brexit?

.Something similar with a bit better wording doesn't seem overly complicated to me.

The real referendum wasn't over complicated either, but the losers still couldn't get their heads around it.

[itsnotoutthere]

6 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

So the Liberal Democrats will keep us in the EU, the Labour Party will give us a 2nd referendum without the default leave option, and Boris and Farage are going to go against each other.

Mmm, I predict a Labour SNP coalition followed by riots when No Deal is taken off a so called `democratic` 2nd referendum.

Farage what are you doing?????? Fall on your sword if you have too, dont spend 3 years fighting for Brexit then ruin it yourself.

And for that very reason they should be disallowed from putting anybody up for election, afterall they have demonstrated that they consider your vote to be worthless. Their actions over Brexit are worthy of China and north Korea.

Edited November 5, 2019 by itsnotoutthere

[RAyMO]

8 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

UKIP under Farage won more votes than the Labour Party in the 2010 election but only got 2 MP seats. Because he was tactically inept and overconfident too.

Have you the figures for this?

UKIPs votes in the three elections 2010, 2015 and 2017 combined did not exceed the Labour vote in 2010 nor any one of the other 2 elections. 

[hetrodoxly]

1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

1. Do you want to leave the EU?
2. Would this include a no-deal Brexit?

.Something similar with a bit better wording doesn't seem overly complicated to me.

How at this point in time are you going to get 'no deal' agreed and put on the voting slip, parliament tried to scupper a deal by not even letting the prime minister use it as a negotiating tool.

[itsnotoutthere]

 

[ExpandMyMind]

27 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

How at this point in time are you going to get 'no deal' agreed and put on the voting slip, parliament tried to scupper a deal by not even letting the prime minister use it as a negotiating tool.

That's not what I meant. I just meant asking voters if they also support a no-deal Brexit in the event of a breakdown in negotiations. It seems like a fair question.

[hetrodoxly]

1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

That's not what I meant. I just meant asking voters if they also support a no-deal Brexit in the event of a breakdown in negotiations. It seems like a fair question.

Ok, but i still don't think parliament would agree to it and even if they did i don't think they'd implement it even if the majority voted for it.  

[ExpandMyMind]

11 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

Ok, but i still don't think parliament would agree to it and even if they did i don't think they'd implement it even if the majority voted for it.  

Implement what? Brexit?

If you mean implement a referendum, then my idea was to have the referendum voted for at the same time as the general election, in the same booth. Like during the 2012 US Presidential election when Washington State put a question about cannabis legalisation on the ballot, so people voted for the President and voted on a specific policy (from what I can tell, they often have these policy referendums added onto candidate voting). Two birds with one stone was my thinking.

I'm with you though that it doesn't look likely that politicians would agree to even that.

Edited November 5, 2019 by ExpandMyMind

[hetrodoxly]

1 hour ago, itsnotoutthere said:

 

Everyone should watch 'the arrogance of the establishment' in this video.

[hetrodoxly]

'the arrogance of the establishment' i went and found the whole video, it's well worth watching.

 

[bee]

8 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

'the arrogance of the establishment' i went and found the whole video, it's well worth watching.

 

That was a great discussion.... thanks - I enjoyed what the guests had to say and getting
to know Claire Fox more - good insight into what's going on and refreshing to listen to people
with minds of their own that haven't been corrupted and mind controlled...

Can you imagine that playing on prime time MSM.... ?..... no nor me ...

I saw Sky News last night and they managed to do a whole section about the GE and
who was standing for what re. Brexit.... without a single mention of the Brexit Party..

Up came the Blue Conservative Banner and their position... then the Red and Labour
and then the Yellow and the Lib Dems..... and that was it.

The elephant in the room was trumpeting loudly but to no avail...

That was it.... never mind that IF / WHEN the Brexit Party field candidates in every constituency
how that will play out.... oh no... sweep all that under the carpet and hope no one notices..

Getting back to the video discussion -
Enlightening comments about Bercow and the Supreme Court.... and the way they have corrupted
politics especially regarding Brexit - by being biased and partisan in favour of remaining.. 

And Claire Fox talking about candidates in the Brexit Party who originate from Commonwealth Countries
who are astonished and gutted that 'The Mother of All Parliaments' - is loosing democracy when their
countries of origin are only just moving towards the kind of democracy we have taken for granted...
and that is now slipping away before our very eyes...

as the political process is religated to being just a part of the Global Corporate Business Model...?
That's me saying that about the Business Model... it wasn't said in the video...  
 

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by bee

[Duke Wellington]

3 hours ago, bee said:

That was a great discussion.... thanks - I enjoyed what the guests had to say and getting

to know Claire Fox more - good insight into what's going on and refreshing to listen to people
with minds of their own that haven't been corrupted and mind controlled...

Can you imagine that playing on prime time MSM.... ?..... no nor me ...

I saw Sky News last night and they managed to do a whole section about the GE and
who was standing for what re. Brexit.... without a single mention of the Brexit Party..

Up came the Blue Conservative Banner and their position... then the Red and Labour
and then the Yellow and the Lib Dems..... and that was it.

The elephant in the room was trumpeting loudly but to no avail...

That was it.... never mind that IF / WHEN the Brexit Party field candidates in every constituency
how that will play out.... oh no... sweep all that under the carpet and hope no one notices..

Getting back to the video discussion -
Enlightening comments about Bercow and the Supreme Court.... and the way they have corrupted
politics especially regarding Brexit - by being biased and partisan in favour of remaining.. 

And Claire Fox talking about candidates in the Brexit Party who originate from Commonwealth Countries
who are astonished and gutted that 'The Mother of All Parliaments' - is loosing democracy when their
countries of origin are only just moving towards the kind of democracy we have taken for granted...
and that is now slipping away before our very eyes...

as the political process is religated to being just a part of the Global Corporate Business Model...?
That's me saying that about the Business Model... it wasn't said in the video...  
 

Legally a party is only entitled to airtime if they have 50 MPs elected.

But in the fairness of Democracy its important that the Liberal Democrats, SNP, and the Brexit Party are all involved in the debate. I`m not a fan of television debates as they the questions put to each leader are controlled, they dont get to expound their vision for Britains future of full spectrum of policies, and it often degenerates into points scoring.

I would like to say an online platform where each leader submits a 30 minute video talking about their whole vision and policy manifesto. On top of that, a break down of the points they have raised. And all parties standing in a General Election (regardless of size) should be able to do the same. It then means the public have whole access to all the information they need to know about who they can vote for and what they stand for.

As it is everything is setup to favour a 2 party system, even the first past the post approach to elections.

[stevewinn]

Remainers give the game away when they ask for a second referendum as they are admitting the insurmountable problems of brexit in the first referendum magically disappear with a second referendum.

Beware of remainers who masquerade as democrats They are democracy deniers. Speak with forked tongue. Be thankful they dont carry bang bang stick.

 

[Duke Wellington]

1 hour ago, stevewinn said:

Remainers give the game away when they ask for a second referendum as they are admitting the insurmountable problems of brexit in the first referendum magically disappear with a second referendum.

Beware of remainers who masquerade as democrats They are democracy deniers. Speak with forked tongue. Be thankful they dont carry bang bang stick.

 

The thing is us clear leavers can see what they are up too, but those undecided or neutral can too. It is only those who wish to remain in the EU who are blinding themselves to their own lies, distortions, and manipulations.

That is going to put off many of the undecided and neutral voters from ticking their boxes come December.

[Setton]

2 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

Legally a party is only entitled to airtime if they have 50 MPs elected.

But in the fairness of Democracy its important that the Liberal Democrats, SNP, and the Brexit Party are all involved in the debate. I`m not a fan of television debates as they the questions put to each leader are controlled, they dont get to expound their vision for Britains future of full spectrum of policies, and it often degenerates into points scoring.

I would like to say an online platform where each leader submits a 30 minute video talking about their whole vision and policy manifesto. On top of that, a break down of the points they have raised. And all parties standing in a General Election (regardless of size) should be able to do the same. It then means the public have whole access to all the information they need to know about who they can vote for and what they stand for.

As it is everything is setup to favour a 2 party system, even the first past the post approach to elections.

To make it really fair, so the vote is on policies not personalities, they could write it down instead - compile their policies and vision for the UK into a single document. 

Oh, hang on... 

[Duke Wellington]

1 minute ago, Setton said:

To make it really fair, so the vote is on policies not personalities, they could write it down instead - compile their policies and vision for the UK into a single document. 

Oh, hang on... 

Are you still at it? I dont think one person here has taken the bait over the last 6 pages lmao.

You have lost the debate and your attempts to annoy people too.

Edited November 6, 2019 by RabidMongoose

[Space Commander Travis]

6 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

Legally a party is only entitled to airtime if they have 50 MPs elected.

How's that for a classic catch 22? It isn't at all biased in favour of the established parties is it

[Setton]

4 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

Are you still at it? I dont think one person here has taken the bait over the last 6 pages lmao.

You have lost the debate and your attempts to annoy people too.

The debate is, of course, still going on... 

And the fact that you keep replying suggests I am making an impression on some level. Even if that level is miles over your head. 

[hetrodoxly]

Unionists in Glasgow this weekend gone, at Nicola Sturgeons rally, i only saw Scottish and EU flags on MSM?

 

[L.A.T.1961]

Probably the biggest election story today - 

Labour bombshell as Tom Watson announces he is quitting Parliament.

"Watson's decision comes just weeks after a botched attempt by allies of Mr Corbyn to axe the post of Labour deputy leader on the eve of the party's annual conference.

At the time, he said he had been the victim of an attempted "drive-by shooting" by his political enemies."

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/tom-watson/news/107832/labour-bombshell-tom-watson-announces

 

 

[Space Commander Travis]

The labour party is going to borrow an extra 150 billion pounds over the next thousand years or something! Meanwhile Joris Bohnson is promising ten billion pounds for something or other. Funny how the tory government hasn't been able to offer ten billion pounds for anything hitherto, but now when it comes to an election bribe all of a sudden the tory party can offer an extra ten billion pounds! 

[itsnotoutthere]

2 hours ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

The labour party is going to borrow an extra 150 billion pounds over the next thousand years or something! Meanwhile Joris Bohnson is promising ten billion pounds for something or other. Funny how the tory government hasn't been able to offer ten billion pounds for anything hitherto, but now when it comes to an election bribe all of a sudden the tory party can offer an extra ten billion pounds! 

Yep, but eventually they always run out of other peoples money.