Duke Wellington Posted November 8, 2019 #201 Share Posted November 8, 2019 48 minutes ago, bee said: Oh what a surprise...... the BBC summary for the latest on the Parties campaigns yesterday - didn't include a single mention of the Brexit Party - It's as if the 17.4 million people who voted to leave the EU don't exist... they have become Non People But there's a big picture of Boris visiting a crisp factory in Northern Ireland... The BBC and the MSM are doing their best to ignore the Brexit Party - but the BP are campaigning here and there just like all the other Parties - If they put a foot wrong I'm sure they will get a mention though... you have to make an effort to get any real news about them... ie the Brexit Party Twitter Account It will get worse because with no elected MPs the Brexit Party also doesnt get to do a Party Election Broadcast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted November 8, 2019 Author #202 Share Posted November 8, 2019 1 minute ago, RabidMongoose said: It will get worse because with no elected MPs the Brexit Party also doesnt get to do a Party Election Broadcast. I have a feeling that Leave Voters are going to feel generally annoyed and disrespected that the Brexit Party is getting such a minute amount of coverage on MSM.... and it could help increase the vote FOR the BP and not the other way round.... having had 3 years of shenanigans since the 2016 referendum it could make tentative BP voters dig their heels in.... by tentative I mean the leave voters who are thinking they have to vote conservative to save Brexit... ie settle for something that isn't leaving properly and could drag on for years if not indefinitely - it's like another chapter of Project Fear.... but they might go sod it - and conclude that if the establishment and their media are being so manipulative they deserve to be punished through the ballot box.. ??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted November 8, 2019 #203 Share Posted November 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said: It will get worse because with no elected MPs the Brexit Party also doesnt get to do a Party Election Broadcast. very stark example how the two parties have it stitched up between themselves. for all the 'hatred' between them one never takes the other to the brink and risk destroying the stronghold they have. no, the two party merry-go-round suits them well. we need the people to break this, a wipeout akin to the 1993 Canadian election. were the conservatives went from a majority to 3 seats, as the voters threw partly loyalty out the window and switched voting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted November 8, 2019 #204 Share Posted November 8, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, bee said: I have a feeling that Leave Voters are going to feel generally annoyed and disrespected that the Brexit Party is getting such a minute amount of coverage on MSM.... and it could help increase the vote FOR the BP and not the other way round.... having had 3 years of shenanigans since the 2016 referendum it could make tentative BP voters dig their heels in.... by tentative I mean the leave voters who are thinking they have to vote conservative to save Brexit... ie settle for something that isn't leaving properly and could drag on for years if not indefinitely - it's like another chapter of Project Fear.... but they might go sod it - and conclude that if the establishment and their media are being so manipulative they deserve to be punished through the ballot box.. ??? good point and the cold hard fact is the Tory party never delivered Brexit and continues to fail in delivering Brexit. its damning. 2016 Referendum vote. (Cameron loses his Referendum vote and does a runner.) 2017 General Election. (May throws away majority in a disaster of an election where tory policy was complete and utter shambles) 29th March 2019. (Mays abysmal EU surrender agreement) 12th April 2019. (Mays Abysmal EU surrender agreement) 31st October 2019. (Boris Johnson's reheated Mays Deal, a few tweaks having us leaving but tied to the EU till 2022) 31st January 2020. Who the hell will be the govt? And after saying all this the Tories are the more credible party because Labour is just an utter pile of sheet. Im voting Brexit party. make not one iota of difference in my area, its a bloody nightmare. Edited November 8, 2019 by stevewinn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.A.T.1961 Posted November 8, 2019 #205 Share Posted November 8, 2019 The UK in 1972 - Video - a two day strike by forty workers at W. W. Cripps Engineering in Coventry caused by a dispute about the size of tea mug. https://www.macearchive.org/films/atv-today-13071972-coventry-tea-strike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted November 8, 2019 #206 Share Posted November 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said: The UK in 1972 - Video - a two day strike by forty workers at W. W. Cripps Engineering in Coventry caused by a dispute about the size of tea mug. https://www.macearchive.org/films/atv-today-13071972-coventry-tea-strike There was a strike at fords when my dad was there because the wrong side of the toast was buttered. (messing), but that was the Union of the time, they did strike after refusing a 18% pay rise. 18 percent. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.A.T.1961 Posted November 8, 2019 #207 Share Posted November 8, 2019 7 minutes ago, stevewinn said: strike after refusing a 18% pay rise. 18 percent. More of the same here - Strikers picket the British Leyland Jaguar car factory in Coventry. 1972. https://www.macearchive.org/films/atv-today-26061972-strike-jaguar-car-factory 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted November 8, 2019 Author #208 Share Posted November 8, 2019 meanwhile...... Back to the Future... in 2019 How might the Remain Alliance affect the overall majority of this election...? Because relatively small numbers can call the shots (or a lot of them) in a hung parliament situation... The same goes for if the BP can at least take some seats... enough to hold influence... https://ukandeu.ac.uk/the-17-conservative-seats-under-threat-from-a-remain-alliance/ The general election is being fought on multiple fronts. One battleground is seats where Conservatives are vulnerable to swings to the Liberal Democrats. Making this problem more difficult for the Conservatives is the newly announced ‘Remain Alliance’. There is disagreement over the number of seats that could be taken from the Conservatives by a Liberal Democrat-Green-Plaid Cymru alliance: UK in a Changing Europe senior fellow John Curtice put their potential seat gains at six or so. The Remain Alliance itself has announced a pact in 60 seats overall. The Remain Alliance could make the difference in 11 Conservative seats 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.A.T.1961 Posted November 8, 2019 #209 Share Posted November 8, 2019 7 minutes ago, bee said: meanwhile...... Back to the Future... in 2019 How might the Remain Alliance affect the overall majority of this election...? Because relatively small numbers can call the shots (or a lot of them) in a hung parliament situation... The same goes for if the BP can at least take some seats... enough to hold influence... https://ukandeu.ac.uk/the-17-conservative-seats-under-threat-from-a-remain-alliance/ Its hard to say but a seat targeted is not a seat won and it might not happen - Conservatives are demanding the election watchdog investigates the pact brokered between Remain parties. "James Cleverly has written to the Electoral Commission demanding the watchdog probes Unite To Remain" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7664695/Remain-alliance-face-electoral-watchdog-enquiry-anti-Brexit-pact-60-seats.html 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted November 8, 2019 Author #210 Share Posted November 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said: Its hard to say but a seat targeted is not a seat won and it might not happen - Conservatives are demanding the election watchdog investigates the pact brokered between Remain parties. "James Cleverly has written to the Electoral Commission demanding the watchdog probes Unite To Remain" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7664695/Remain-alliance-face-electoral-watchdog-enquiry-anti-Brexit-pact-60-seats.html could this be interpreted as...... the Tories are getting worried....? I personally think that the Conservative Party is being lured into a false sense of security by the polls that are giving them a healthy lead,,, this is holding Boris' et al back from thinking they NEED the Brexit Party... and it's pretty clear that the political elite fear Farage and the Brexit Party more than anything else.... more even than Corbyn perhaps....?? If Boris wakes up in time.... maybe it will boil down to a battle between ................... The Tories and the Brexit Party.. v The Labour Party and the Remain Alliance.... ??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted November 8, 2019 Author #211 Share Posted November 8, 2019 10 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said: Its hard to say but a seat targeted is not a seat won and it might not happen - that true... but on the other hand, in this election there is the possibilty of anything happening because the dynamics are unique and passions running high.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.A.T.1961 Posted November 8, 2019 #212 Share Posted November 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, bee said: could this be interpreted as...... the Tories are getting worried....? I personally think that the Conservative Party is being lured into a false sense of security by the polls that are giving them a healthy lead,,, this is holding Boris' et al back from thinking they NEED the Brexit Party... and it's pretty clear that the political elite fear Farage and the Brexit Party more than anything else.... more even than Corbyn perhaps....?? If Boris wakes up in time.... maybe it will boil down to a battle between ................... The Tories and the Brexit Party.. v The Labour Party and the Remain Alliance.... ??? Tories know the Brexit party is a serious threat but they are not going to talk about a deal until they feel it is needed. I don't think polling results are suggesting a deal is needed any time soon. If the electoral commission do look into the remain alliance and find it stops voters from voting for their preferred party then it would also stop Boris and Nigel doing something similar. This might be in the back of Tory strategists minds as it would put Nigel in a position where he has to look at standing down MP's in seats Boris could win or risk giving Labour a majority? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted November 8, 2019 Author #213 Share Posted November 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said: Tories know the Brexit party is a serious threat but they are not going to talk about a deal until they feel it is needed. I don't think polling results are suggesting a deal is needed any time soon. that's what makes me suspicious about the polls.... without an agreed Tory / BP alliance it's possible that Dec 13th will see Corbyn moving into number 10 and the Remain alliance sharpening their claws... and Boris going... what went wrong I thought I had it in the bag... 7 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said: If the electoral commission do look into the remain alliance and find it stops voters from voting for their preferred party then it would also stop Boris and Nigel doing something similar. This might be in the back of Tory strategists minds as it would put Nigel in a position where he has to look at standing down MP's in seats Boris could win or risk giving Labour a majority? good points to consider.... although the Electoral Commision would have a hard job FORCING candidates to take part... (ie the ones who want to stand down).... don't know how that would work... and let's not forget how hopeless the Electoral Commision were with the suspicious postal voting etc in Peterborough when it looked like the Brexit Party was robbed... (although that could give weight to what you said about it having the knock on effect with scuppering a potential Tory / BP alliance...) Because a Tory / Brexit Party Alliance means actually leaving the EU and THAT is what this election is all about... breaking the Leave / Remain Parliamentary deadlock..... but it looks like people are already getting side tracked onto other issues..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.A.T.1961 Posted November 8, 2019 #214 Share Posted November 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, bee said: that's what makes me suspicious about the polls.... without an agreed Tory / BP alliance it's possible that Dec 13th will see Corbyn moving into number 10 and the Remain alliance sharpening their claws... and Boris going... what went wrong I thought I had it in the bag... good points to consider.... although the Electoral Commision would have a hard job FORCING candidates to take part... (ie the ones who want to stand down).... don't know how that would work... I don't think the polls are any more suspicious than normal As I see it the electoral commission might compare the remain alliance to a cartel ? but there is nothing to prevent a party independently targeting particular seats to maximise their own results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsnotoutthere Posted November 8, 2019 #215 Share Posted November 8, 2019 https://mobile.twitter.com/GabrielCSGavin/status/1192730270232907776 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted November 9, 2019 #216 Share Posted November 9, 2019 In the General Election campaign today, the conservatives are promising something, and the labour are promising something! More at six! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted November 9, 2019 #217 Share Posted November 9, 2019 General election. - no wonder all the promises being made cannot be delivered once elected. every single Labour policy i've heard this morning on the radio is undeliverable as they break the fiscal rules set by Brussels. why is the BBC not highlighted this? There is no mention of spending our former EU contributions from any party leading me to believe that the LibLabCon will ALWAYS find an excuse to avoid leaving the constraints of the EU. The best we can hope for is the Tories to win the election by being the largest party without a majority and the Brexit party to do something never done in British politics and come from nowhere and win 15 seats. so holding the govts feet to the fire and keeping the only true brexit option of WTO on the table. Boris's deal has us leaving but tied to the EU, and we must not forget Brois deal means a trade deal is going to take a further 3 years as stated by Barnier. we've seen what the last three years have been like and it will be more of the same when it comes to a trade deal. ultimately over the decades both Labour and Tory govts huff and puff over the EU for public consumption but in the end they've wilted to the EU. remember Cameron when the EU demanded an extra £2.1bn because our economy was doing well. he came out all red faced, were not paying it and then quietly paid it in two instalments,. We've been done ladies and gentlemen, LibLabCon have ultimately conspired together to get the outcome the lot of them always wanted, namely, get WTO true Brexit off the table. - So he we are faced with a general election and where is WTO??????? The UK over the last Three years and the next Three years will have paid the EU. £156Bn and what for. absolute joke, imagine what could have been done here at home. better funding for the NHS, police, Schools, etc... but feck it, did we really need it to spend it at home? i mean empire building doesn't come cheap and EU members need infrastructure building and improving. - i mean whats the point in building factories on cheap land in Slovakia with back handers and brown envelopes when the goods produced will have trouble flowing back to the UK along dirt tracks. no, lets build new smooth roads so the goods can flow back to us with ease. its a good deal ladies and gentlemen. we export our jobs to them at the expense of British workers and then help them sell what was once produced here back to us. and in the meantime as British Jobs are lost we take masses of Europe's unskilled workers. its a win win for the UK im sure people will agree, we exchange a highly paid factory worker for a toilet cleaner. winner winner chicken dinner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAyMO Posted November 9, 2019 #218 Share Posted November 9, 2019 20 minutes ago, stevewinn said: where is WTO??????? Its gone. Even the Brexit party is no longer demanding Boris turf his deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAyMO Posted November 9, 2019 #219 Share Posted November 9, 2019 13 hours ago, bee said: although the Electoral Commision would have a hard job FORCING candidates to take part... (ie the ones who want to stand down).... don't know how that would work... There is no law requiring a party to field candidates in all constituencies. 'alliances' have been happening UK elections to direct the outcome of UK general Elections for decades. I am thinking specifically of the UUP / DUP who for many elections now have done such. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essan Posted November 9, 2019 #220 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Personally, I am of the opinion that conspiring with other gangs to deny the electorate the opportunity to vote for a candidate should be a crime. But it's just what you expect from political gangs who have no interest whatsoever in the electorate, let alone the idea of a representative democracy I also think that if we insist (as we do) on having a particracy rather than a democracy, then only a party that fields a candidate in all constituencies can have a mandate to form a government. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted November 9, 2019 #221 Share Posted November 9, 2019 15 hours ago, stevewinn said: There was a strike at fords when my dad was there because the wrong side of the toast was buttered. (messing), but that was the Union of the time, they did strike after refusing a 18% pay rise. 18 percent. Hence why the UK lost its car manufacturing industry. We need to be on the guard against Corbyn, he will set us up to lose a load of our enterprises and remaining industries in 10 years time should he become PM. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud the mackem Posted November 9, 2019 #222 Share Posted November 9, 2019 This Election is not about who might win but its about Leave or Remain , the general public will vote on how they see it . Apart from the numpties who vote for a party because their dad or grandad voted for it , and the no brainer people who can't make up their minds , the election will be won on a leave /remain basis .If your M.P. voted leave ,and you want to remain you would not vote for that person , and vice versa , and how can you vote for an M.P. which you voted for last time, when they have decided to "jump ship" from one party to another , they aren't thinking about their constituents in this respect , but keeping their pay packets . I just hope that the public see through this mess and get rid of any mind changing M.P. ,and also those who voted leave or remain when their constituents wished otherwise. This applies to All parties as non of them are telling the Truth , and the biggest Scammers are Johnson and Corbyn. All criticism accepted with a smile ,cheers . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud the mackem Posted November 9, 2019 #223 Share Posted November 9, 2019 16 hours ago, bee said: that true... but on the other hand, in this election there is the possibilty of anything happening because the dynamics are unique and passions running high.... Agreed...I will for who I think will take this Country out of Europe , you can't believe Johnson or Corbyn with their lies and promises which will never happen ,and Swinson is a lunatic . I voted for Thatcher then she closed the shipyards and the mines and took us to war so then I voted for Blair (big mistake) , so I went back to Tory , and Cameron is a coward , so (head scratching ) ,which party will keep this Country at the top , I'll find out on the 13th December , but I wouldn't mind Ann Widdicombe as P.M. I guess its Brexit for me . My Boss once told me that I was the "greatest fighter of lost cause that the world has ever seen ". Regards. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted November 9, 2019 #224 Share Posted November 9, 2019 30 minutes ago, spud the mackem said: This Election is not about who might win but its about Leave or Remain , the general public will vote on how they see it . Apart from the numpties who vote for a party because their dad or grandad voted for it , and the no brainer people who can't make up their minds , the election will be won on a leave /remain basis .If your M.P. voted leave ,and you want to remain you would not vote for that person , and vice versa , and how can you vote for an M.P. which you voted for last time, when they have decided to "jump ship" from one party to another , they aren't thinking about their constituents in this respect , but keeping their pay packets . I just hope that the public see through this mess and get rid of any mind changing M.P. ,and also those who voted leave or remain when their constituents wished otherwise. This applies to All parties as non of them are telling the Truth , and the biggest Scammers are Johnson and Corbyn. All criticism accepted with a smile ,cheers . I predict a slight Tory win leaving them with a 30 seat majority. I also predict the re-emergence after over a century of the Liberal Democrats as the official opposition. They will get all the remain voters who are alienated by the extreme brand of socialism promoted by Corbyn. I predict Labour close behind in 3rd with major gains for the Greens. A few seats will also be picked up by the Brexit Party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted November 9, 2019 #225 Share Posted November 9, 2019 2 hours ago, RAyMO said: Its gone. Even the Brexit party is no longer demanding Boris turf his deal. Not entirely, it still stands under the Lisbon Treaty Article 50 the default position is we leave with No-Deal if no deal can be agreed by 31st January. the only thing which prevented this happening to date was the old Parliament, will the new parliament act in the same fashion? lets remember, Boris's deal has to be put before the new parliament. if its rejected its likely those same MP's would vote against any further extension which means Leaving on the 31st Jan on WTO. 20 minutes ago, spud the mackem said: This Election is not about who might win but its about Leave or Remain , the general public will vote on how they see it . Apart from the numpties who vote for a party because their dad or grandad voted for it , and the no brainer people who can't make up their minds , the election will be won on a leave /remain basis .If your M.P. voted leave ,and you want to remain you would not vote for that person , and vice versa , and how can you vote for an M.P. which you voted for last time, when they have decided to "jump ship" from one party to another , they aren't thinking about their constituents in this respect , but keeping their pay packets . I just hope that the public see through this mess and get rid of any mind changing M.P. ,and also those who voted leave or remain when their constituents wished otherwise. This applies to All parties as non of them are telling the Truth , and the biggest Scammers are Johnson and Corbyn. All criticism accepted with a smile ,cheers . you make a number of excellent points, but i want to add to the point on MP's crossing the floor, over 20 MP's stood on and was elected on a manifesto only to jump ship to opposition parties. the best one was the Tory MP, who crossed to the Lib Dems - the mutant two months earlier was standing in the Tory leadership race, you couldn't make it up. lets also remember that the first Brexit extension in March 29th, that vote was won by one single vote by a Labour MP a criminal with a tag around her ankle. Labour MP Fiona Onasanya (and where is she now? sacked, gone, but not before voting. what a shower of ****e, its par of the course for this generation of MP's) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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