UK General Election -

[Duke Wellington]

28 minutes ago, Setton said:

No one is suggesting the US would buy the entire NHS. They would, however, almost certainly want extra accesses and perks. For example extending patents on drugs, costing the UK taxpayer more to line the pockets of big American businesses. 

Technically speaking the cost of private healthcare is only expensive when the number of healthcare providers are low and patient demand is high. Putting that aside the NHS isn't up for sale anyway, and I hate to point it out but we already pay market prices for Patented US drugs.

[L.A.T.1961]

Jeremy Corbyn dodges question on whether NHS dossier came from Reddit

The Labour leader is facing questions over whether Russian misinformation was behind a ‘leaked’ 451-page report which he claimed proved the NHS is up for grabs in a US trade deal. 

It comes as research by social media analytics firm Graphika and international affairs think tank The Atlantic Council found the documents were spread online in a similar way to the Russian Secondary Infektion misinformation campaign.

 

https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/03/jeremy-corbyn-dodges-question-whether-nhs-dossier-came-reddit-11261171/ 

 

 

[Setton]

12 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Technically speaking the cost of private healthcare is only expensive when the number of healthcare providers are low and patient demand is high. Putting that aside the NHS isn't up for sale anyway, and I hate to point it out but we already pay market prices for Patented US drugs.

Which is why I said extended patents. 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Setton

[itsnotoutthere]

1 hour ago, Setton said:

So the BBC should apologise for the exact same double standard you've just displayed? 

Amazing. Are you trying to parody yourself? 

'Double standard'   Explain yourself.

Saint Obama tried to influence the outcome of the brexit vote by making threats about how our relationship would alter if we voted leave, directly meddling in our democracy......BBC say nothing.

Trump has made no such threats ....but the BBC has warned he shouldn't influence our democracy. 

The BBCs usual double standards.

So whats your point?

Edited December 3, 2019 by itsnotoutthere

[Eldorado]

From the Financial Times....

"Dodgy data, doctored videos and charts: how fake news is influencing the UK election"

"Independent fact checker Full Fact and FT Alphaville examine how the three main parties have resorted to misleading information, from doctoring videos to dodgy data and bar charts."

Video report: https://www.ft.com/video/85514f6e-7121-4335-8c2b-7029d0652fa0

[itsnotoutthere]

3 minutes ago, Eldorado said:

From the Financial Times....

"Dodgy data, doctored videos and charts: how fake news is influencing the UK election"

"Independent fact checker Full Fact and FT Alphaville examine how the three main parties have resorted to misleading information, from doctoring videos to dodgy data and bar charts."

Video report: https://www.ft.com/video/85514f6e-7121-4335-8c2b-7029d0652fa0

I said some while ago, anybody who votes for a party on the basis of anything they promise or say 3 weeks before an election is an idiot. Just don't watch the news, they all have an agenda.

[itsnotoutthere]

5 hours ago, Setton said:

Because obviously the Tories are entirely reliant on public polls and never conduct their own 

The sudden drop might have more to do with the Tories blatant disinformation campaign, Johnson’s complete unwillingness to actually face voters (deja vue anyone) and trying to politicise the murder of two young people who stood against everything he stands for by trying to blame Labour for a decision his own party made. 

Yes, he shouldn't politicise it, we all know it's got nothing to do with politics, it's all about religion, well one religion in particular in truth.

[Setton]

1 hour ago, itsnotoutthere said:

'Double standard'   Explain yourself.

Saint Obama tried to influence the outcome of the brexit vote by making threats about how our relationship would alter if we voted leave, directly meddling in our democracy......BBC say nothing.

Trump has made no such threats ....but the BBC has warned he shouldn't influence our democracy. 

The BBCs usual double standards.

So whats your point?

Obama told us the consequences of leaving the EU. 

You called that meddling. 

Trump tells us we should leave the EU. 

You're fine with that. 

There is your double standard. 

[Setton]

1 hour ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Yes, he shouldn't politicise it, we all know it's got nothing to do with politics, it's all about religion, well one religion in particular in truth.

Uhuh sure it is. Little known fact that IRA and FKD members have to convert to Islam... 

[itsnotoutthere]

21 minutes ago, Setton said:

Obama told us the consequences of leaving the EU. 

You called that meddling. 

Trump tells us we should leave the EU. 

You're fine with that. 

There is your double standard. 

But Trump is right, we should leave the EU, in fact we should have left three and a half years ago, it's what we voted for.

And Obama told us we would be at the back of the queue if we left the EU. An implicit threat.

Edited December 3, 2019 by itsnotoutthere

[itsnotoutthere]

52 minutes ago, Setton said:

Uhuh sure it is. Little known fact that IRA and FKD members have to convert to Islam... 

Blown up any school kids at a pop concert lately have they? or run over any pedestrians in a lorry lately? 

Perhaps they should convert to islam, they'd get an easier ride from people like you and Corbyn if they did.

Besides that, your comment makes no sense. The motivation of past terrorist groups has no bearing on the motive of the present crop of terrorist scum. The present crop of terrorists shout 'allahu akbar' when they pull the pin or plunge the knife in for a reason you know.

Edited December 3, 2019 by itsnotoutthere

[Setton]

1 hour ago, itsnotoutthere said:

But Trump is right, we should leave the EU, in fact we should have left three and a half years ago, it's what we voted for.

And Obama told us we would be at the back of the queue if we left the EU. An implicit threat.

In your opinion, he is right. 

And there is the bottom line, its fine if someone you agree with does it, not if it's someone you disagree with. 

[Setton]

1 hour ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Blown up any school kids at a pop concert lately have they? or run over any pedestrians in a lorry lately? 

No, they've been busy just shooting kids, trying to blow up police officers and making threats to the royal family. 

Quote

Perhaps they should convert to islam, they'd get an easier ride from people like you and Corbyn if they did.

They already get the same treatment as Islamist extremists. Including the recognition that ideology is a very minor factor in their decision making. 

Quote

Besides that, your comment makes no sense. The motivation of past terrorist groups has no bearing on the motive of the present crop of terrorist scum. The present crop of terrorists shout 'allahu akbar' when they pull the pin or plunge the knife in for a reason you know.

The IRA and FKD are a long way from past terrorists. Both are extremely active and growing. 

You just don't care because neither fits your narrative that Islam creates terrorists, and one is probably a bit close to home for you. 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Setton

[itsnotoutthere]

2 minutes ago, Setton said:

In your opinion, he is right. 

And there is the bottom line, its fine if someone you agree with does it, not if it's someone you disagree with. 

Yes in my opinion, and the opinion of 17.5 million other people.

[itsnotoutthere]

1 minute ago, Setton said:

No, they've been busy just shooting kids and trying to blow up police officers. 

They already get the same treatment as Islamist extremists. Including the recognition that ideology is a very minor factor in their decision making. 

The IRA and FKD are a long way from past terrorists. Both are extremely active and growing. 

You just don't care because neither fits your narrative that Islam creates terrorists, and one is probably a bit close to home for you. 

It's not my narrative, it's a demonstrable truth.

[Setton]

2 minutes ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Yes in my opinion, and the opinion of 17.5 million other people.

Doesn't change your double standard. Hypocrite. 

[Setton]

Just now, itsnotoutthere said:

It's not my narrative, it's a demonstrable truth.

So you do think IRA and FKD are Muslims? 

Or do you understand it's not religion that causes terrorism? 

[itsnotoutthere]

10 minutes ago, Setton said:

So you do think IRA and FKD are Muslims? 

Or do you understand it's not religion that causes terrorism? 

I really don't know or understand why you are in such denial of islamic terrorism, but why would I think the IRA are muslim, rather dumb thing to say.

As I said, different organisations have different motivations and patently islamic terrorism is in a big part motivated by their religion. Why the held do you think police keep an eye on mosques in relation to suspects, why do you think the police always turn to religious leaders after certain atrocities, why do you think certain mosques have been shut down in the past. Are you seriously stating that the religion of islam has nothing whatsoever to do with these terrorist incidents? Why do you think that even the right on liberal BBC even refer to islamist terrorists??

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by itsnotoutthere

[RAyMO]

5 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

60-70 seats could be on for Tories with today's polls but there are quite a few seats with small majorities and a small reduction in Tory lead could have quite a big effect on seats won. But average polling numbers have not moved much over a one week period so I don't expect a big change one way or the other in next 8-9 days. 

the problem with the average polling figures we see in the Guardian or the BBC is that they are averaging over a 2 week period or so. This tends not to show want is is happening currently. The averages are not sufficiently sensitive to near time polling. Furthermore the averages are not weighted for known bias of the pollsters, i.e some consistently over estimate Tory support while others consistently over estimate Labour support. 

Both those sites show an average of 11 / 12% Tory lead. However if you limit the time span to 4 or 5 days the gap is single digits. Still high enough for Tory majority but there is still enough time left for labour to gain 1 or 2 % on today's values. (Tories have hit their ceiling not much left of the Brexit vote to take, but  labour can still take from the Lib Dems - according to Prof. John Curtice). Add in tactical voting and a hung parliament cannot be ruled out.

What can be ruled out is any party other than the Tories forming a majority.

Edited December 3, 2019 by RAyMO

[hetrodoxly]

2 hours ago, Setton said:

Obama told us the consequences of leaving the EU. 

Before we voted to do so.

 

2 hours ago, Setton said:

You called that meddling. 

It was.

 

2 hours ago, Setton said:

Trump tells us we should leave the EU.

We've already voted to do so.

 

2 hours ago, Setton said:

You're fine with that. 

Yes.

[L.A.T.1961]

34 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

the problem with the average polling figures we see in the Guardian or the BBC is that they are averaging over a 2 week period or so. This tends not to show want is is happening currently. The averages are not sufficiently sensitive to near time polling. Furthermore the averages are not weighted for known bias of the pollsters, i.e some consistently over estimate Tory support while others consistently over estimate Labour support. 

Both those sites show an average of 11 / 12% Tory lead. However if you limit the time span to 4 or 5 days the gap is single digits. Still high enough for Tory majority but there is still enough time left for labour to gain 1 or 2 % on today's values. (Tories have hit their ceiling not much left of the Brexit vote to take, but  labour can still take from the Lib Dems - according to Prof. John Curtice). Add in tactical voting and a hung parliament cannot be ruled out.

What can be ruled out is any party other than the Tories forming a majority.

I agree, polling is not an exact science and different polling organisations use their own methods for data collection and interpreting/spinning those results.

Averaging out all polls should help smooth out some of the bigger exaggerations but they will still lag real voting intentions as they take a few days to produce after the data has been collected. 

This shouldn't matter too much as there is usually a fairly slow shift in voter sentiment from day to day, or even week to week.

Tactical voting is expected to figure more than usual in this election and it is said to make predictions more difficult but I can't see how it would affect polling results as potential voters are asked who they will vote for. 

So the polls should still be as accurate as at times when there is less tactical voting.

It might throw up a few surprises in various constituencies but tactical voting will affect all parties to some extent. This should reduce big swings in seats, won by parties, one way or the other? 

 

[itsnotoutthere]

 

[bee]

 

Because Corbyn, if he gets into power - is planning to call a 2nd referendum with the choice of
Remain completely or Half Leave (which would give the UK the worst position - still having to
comply with EU rules but having no place at the table to vote on anything)

Because of this.... and because this election was called SPECIFICALLY to move Brexit forward..
Leave Voters have no choice in this election if they want to protect the 2016 referendum result..
they (we) have to vote either Conservative or Brexit Party depending on who's standing ,,,
Conservative if there is no Brexit Candidate... and Brexit Party where ever they are standing,,,

The conservative Party gave us the referendum in the first place (even though Cameron was
convinced the country would vote to remain, if Project Fear was ramped up enough)

But after that they have been making a hash of it - first Theresa May and now Boris not forming
a Leave Alliance... which was the logical way to go if this election was specifically called to move
Brexit forward...

But he was ( is?) convinced he can do it without an alliance... so we now have the real possibility of
being out maneuvered by powerful forces working behind the scenes - who are in cahoots, not just
with the European Union - but the whole Political Global Agenda... of which the EU is just one part...

Hopefully Leave Voters understand what is at stake here and don't get side tracked by anything else...

They (we) have to trust Nigel Farage and vote Brexit Party where there is a BP candidate and 
Conservative where there isn't...

Or Brexit (as voted for) could (will?) be lost and on top of that there will be a few more years of torturous
politics and economic uncertainty...

(getting off my soap box now.......  )

 

[bee]

 

Just a quick trip down Memory Lane... when we voted by a majority to Leave the EU... I seem to remember
the EU wanting to get on with it straight away and said we should trigger Article 50 immediately...

But Theresa May said.... no we will do it when we are ready..... and that period of time 
gave the Remain Camp all the time they needed to F it all up - using Gina Miller as their Front
Woman to make legal changes that has thwarted the Leaving Process....

but I digress... just remembering how close we got to leaving in 2016.... then the rug got pulled
from under us..... 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2019 by bee

[bee]

 

And while I'm at it..............................  

This whole thing that is used by Remainers... and ONLY Remainers....
That we voted to leave but not HOW we would leave...

That is such a cop out and a lie because it was made perfectly clear that we were voting
to Leave the EU AND the Single Market...

You wont find anyone who voted Leave making that argument.... and Corbyn and the Labour
Party are relying on that twisting of the truth to con people in this election...

I'm a floating voter and I don't have an allegiance to any party..... but Leave voters who have 
previously always voted Labour have to switch to Conservative or Brexit Party for this election..
they can go back again at the next one but political tribal allegiance has to change for this one... 

OR

edit to add..... and the same for Conservative Leave Voters who have a Brexit Party
candidate in their constituency... this is the election to forget about previous allegiance
and to save Brexit.... and vote for the Brexit Party...

It's not that difficult to do...... 

no one need ever know with the secret ballot... 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2019 by bee