UK General Election -

[Setton]

6 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

I love your honesty and freshness in all matters in an age where were told what to think and care about. In group think.

And there will be people who'll read your post and think oh No you should care. And no you dont.

 

Yeah, wilful ignorance is so refreshing. 

Oh, no, wait, it's just business as usual for the mongoose. 

[stevewinn]

6 minutes ago, Setton said:

Yeah, wilful ignorance is so refreshing. 

Oh, no, wait, it's just business as usual for the mongoose. 

Why because he doesnt conform to your thinking.

When i last checked there isnt a rule yet on what opinion you can hold.

Until then Rabid mongoose reminds us individuals can hold whatever opinion they like and its refreshing.

[Electric Scooter]

11 minutes ago, Setton said:

But most people do. So if you're going to refuse to bring a bag out of stubbornness, you'll keep paying the 5p. 

Although I personally think you're full of it. Otherwise you'd know its 10-20p most places now. 

Prove that most people do.

The last time I paid attention at Sainsburys it was 5p per bag. If its increased then thats even more shocking, I should probably pay more attention at the till.

The tax on single use plastic has come into existence because of a Sky News campaign reporting on how much of it India is dumping into the ocean. We all know that in the UK most of our used plastic goes into landfill so why have the public agreed to let the Government punish us due to another people`s actions?

I do believe in climate change but think human driven climate change is far lower than the Group Think claim. The catastrophic climate change they claim is occurring is not backed up by scientific evidence.

I`m also surprised that working class people are happy at the taxes levied on single use plastic. Why? Well consumption taxes always hit the poorest in society the hardest.

[Setton]

20 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

Why because he doesnt conform to your thinking.

When i last checked there isnt a rule yet on what opinion you can hold.

Until then Rabid mongoose reminds us individuals can hold whatever opinion they like and its refreshing.

Oh of course he's entitled to his own opinion. 

It's just when your opinion directly goes against fact, you're an idiot. 

[stevewinn]

1 minute ago, Setton said:

Oh of course he's entitled to his own opinion. 

It's just when your opinion directly goes against fact, you're an idiot. 

Idiot now. This is what the world and society as turned into, far to many of us myself included have been programmed. No wonder TV programes are called just that. All the greats of our time have been free thinkers or as you call them idiots.

[RoofGardener]

50 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Prove that most people do.

The last time I paid attention at Sainsburys it was 5p per bag. If its increased then thats even more shocking, I should probably pay more attention at the till.

The tax on single use plastic has come into existence because of a Sky News campaign reporting on how much of it India is dumping into the ocean. We all know that in the UK most of our used plastic goes into landfill so why have the public agreed to let the Government punish us due to another people`s actions?

I do believe in climate change but think human driven climate change is far lower than the Group Think claim. The catastrophic climate change they claim is occurring is not backed up by scientific evidence.

I`m also surprised that working class people are happy at the taxes levied on single use plastic. Why? Well consumption taxes always hit the poorest in society the hardest.

Hmm... I dunno @RabidMongoose. I seem to recall a news report about plastic bag use in the UK, and it had gone down dramatically. (like... about 90% or something). 

The "working class" seem to have taken this plastic bag program to their hearts ? 

 

Edited December 5, 2019 by RoofGardener

[Electric Scooter]

1 minute ago, RoofGardener said:

Hmm... I dunno @RabidMongoose. I seem to recall a news report about plastic bag use in the UK, and it had gone down dramatically. (like... about 90% or something). 

The "working class" seem to have taken this plastic bag program to their hearts ? 

 

No, its forced on everyone with no one having a choice.

And as the working class have the least money they are the most likely to reuse them.

[RoofGardener]

Just now, RabidMongoose said:

No, its forced on everyone with no one having a choice.

And as the working class have the least money they are the most likely to reuse them.

Unn... surely that's the whole point ? 

[Setton]

32 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

Idiot now. This is what the world and society as turned into, far to many of us myself included have been programmed. No wonder TV programes are called just that. All the greats of our time have been free thinkers or as you call them idiots.

The people who first theorised man made climate change were your free thinkers. Those who don't accept the evidence are not free thinkers, they are backwards idiots. 

If someone came up to you and said they believe the world is flat even though all the evidence shows the are wrong, would you call them a 'free thinker' or an idiot? 

[itsnotoutthere]

1 hour ago, Setton said:

The people who first theorised man made climate change were your free thinkers. Those who don't accept the evidence are not free thinkers, they are backwards idiots. 

If someone came up to you and said they believe the world is flat even though all the evidence shows the are wrong, would you call them a 'free thinker' or an idiot? 

No doubt the same 'free thinkers'  that told us we were heading for a new ice age back in the 70s?

Or was it a typo, did you mean 'three drinkers'?

Edited December 5, 2019 by itsnotoutthere

[itsnotoutthere]

1 hour ago, Setton said:

The people who first theorised man made climate change were your free thinkers. Those who don't accept the evidence are not free thinkers, they are backwards idiots. 

If someone came up to you and said they believe the world is flat even though all the evidence shows the are wrong, would you call them a 'free thinker' or an idiot? 

I know what you mean, like those people that didn't accept the evidence of the brexit referendum.......idiots.

[Setton]

22 minutes ago, itsnotoutthere said:

I know what you mean, like those people that didn't accept the evidence of the brexit referendum.......idiots.

Suggest you look up the word 'evidence'. 

[L.A.T.1961]

3 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Hmm... I dunno @RabidMongoose. I seem to recall a news report about plastic bag use in the UK, and it had gone down dramatically. (like... about 90% or something). 

The "working class" seem to have taken this plastic bag program to their hearts ? 

 

As Al Murray would say, it's much more complicated than that.

‘Bags for life’ exacerbating the plastic problem.

Despite being heralded as a way to reduce single-use plastic, sales of durable 'bags for life' are actually contributing to an increase in plastics in supermarkets. 

https://www.discoverwildlife.com/news/bags-for-life-exacerbating-the-plastic-problem/ 

[itsnotoutthere]

1 hour ago, Setton said:

Suggest you look up the word 'evidence'. 

'the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.'

More people voted to leave the EU than voted to remain = fact = true = evidence, ergo = valid.

Edited December 6, 2019 by itsnotoutthere

[stevewinn]

12 hours ago, Setton said:

The people who first theorised man made climate change were your free thinkers. Those who don't accept the evidence are not free thinkers, they are backwards idiots. 

If someone came up to you and said they believe the world is flat even though all the evidence shows the are wrong, would you call them a 'free thinker' or an idiot? 

I'd let them get on with it. mavericks, 

 

[stevewinn]

11 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

No doubt the same 'free thinkers'  that told us we were heading for a new ice age back in the 70s?

Or was it a typo, did you mean 'three drinkers'?

 

[Ozymandias]

Have to laugh at the English Nationalist types on here who can't write their own language. It reminds me of the flag protesters who stomped around waving their Union Jacks upside down or reversed!!

These are the people who voted for Brexit and laud a proven liar like Boris Johnson who hasn't the courage to submit to any form of public scrutiny or accountability. 

On the issue of science predicting another imminent ice age in the 1970s, that was a theory proposed by some scientists who were extrapolating from known data and theorising about the future. Theory is what drives science. We are constantly propounding theories and testing them empirically using our current state of knowledge, and even then some scientists cling on to their flawed theories when the scientific world has started to move on. It's human nature, and scientists are human. 

Of course, there is an element of the population who are ignorant of science, don't properly understand it and feel compelled to denigrate and disparage it. In the modern age they are facilitated in their 'opinion' by an online reservoir of information which they selectively or erroneously assimilate, using what they think they understand, and ignoring what they don't, and otherwise rejecting anything that challenges their defective world view. Often, as here in this thread, they are afforded a sense of validation by 'conspiratorial' online bloggers and commentators of like mind.

On democracy and the fact that it is only as good as the quality of its electorate, I like the following quotes:

'I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts, and beer.'  [Abraham Lincoln] 

'Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'' [Isaac Asimov]  

'The government you elect is the government you deserve. [Thomas Jefferson] 

[spud the mackem]

15 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

Have to laugh at the English Nationalist types on here who can't write their own language. It reminds me of the flag protesters who stomped around waving their Union Jacks upside down or reversed!!

These are the people who voted for Brexit and laud a proven liar like Boris Johnson who hasn't the courage to submit to any form of public scrutiny or accountability. 

On the issue of science predicting another imminent ice age in the 1970s, that was a theory proposed by some scientists who were extrapolating from known data and theorising about the future. Theory is what drives science. We are constantly propounding theories and testing them empirically using our current state of knowledge, and even then some scientists cling on to their flawed theories when the scientific world has started to move on. It's human nature, and scientists are human. 

Of course, there is an element of the population who are ignorant of science, don't properly understand it and feel compelled to denigrate and disparage it. In the modern age they are facilitated in their 'opinion' by an online reservoir of information which they selectively or erroneously assimilate, using what they think they understand, and ignoring what they don't, and otherwise rejecting anything that challenges their defective world view. Often, as here in this thread, they are afforded a sense of validation by 'conspiratorial' online bloggers and commentators of like mind.

On democracy and the fact that it is only as good as the quality of its electorate, I like the following quotes:

'I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts, and beer.'  [Abraham Lincoln] 

'Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'' [Isaac Asimov]  

'The government you elect is the government you deserve. [Thomas Jefferson] 

Ref quote of Thomas Jefferson , on 12/12/19 the people will elect a Gov't for better or worse , but what is on offer is not necessarily the best Gov't , in the interest of Britain moving forward,  as all political parties have their own views as how the Country should be run . Until we get Politicians who will put the Country before the Party , (which is not happening at this election ) , we have to put up with who ever will win , and suffer the consequences ,IMO non of the parties are fit  to run a raffle never mind a Country.

[stevewinn]

17 minutes ago, spud the mackem said:

Ref quote of Thomas Jefferson , on 12/12/19 the people will elect a Gov't for better or worse , but what is on offer is not necessarily the best Gov't , in the interest of Britain moving forward,  as all political parties have their own views as how the Country should be run . Until we get Politicians who will put the Country before the Party , (which is not happening at this election ) , we have to put up with who ever will win , and suffer the consequences ,IMO non of the parties are fit  to run a raffle never mind a Country.

exactly. Brexit as exposed politics. the people can see through it. and it aint over yet with this election. and just look at the media's actions over Brexit and now in the general election. Theres going to be massive sea change.

[Electric Scooter]

11 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

exactly. Brexit as exposed politics. the people can see through it. and it aint over yet with this election. and just look at the media's actions over Brexit and now in the general election. Theres going to be massive sea change.

I think we are entering into a dangerous period of politics in the UK and USA.

Here in the UK pro-EU MPs are falling to subvert our Democracy, and in the US they are falling to destroy a president they hate. Once subversion and destroying fail to produce the desired outcome I predict they will try to impose dictatorships onto our populations.

Let us not forget, if we look at the USSR it was a dictatorship which forced itself onto the people. Its the only way to force onto a population what they dont want and to prevent them gaining redress.

Socialist regimes tend to drift too over time because sane people are opposed to that political ideology. When a country fails to protect itself from socialism is results in a totalitarian regime emerging.

Edited December 6, 2019 by RabidMongoose

[stevewinn]

26 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

I think we are entering into a dangerous period of politics in the UK and USA.

Here in the UK pro-EU MPs are falling to subvert our Democracy, and in the US they are falling to destroy a president they hate. Once subversion and destroying fail to produce the desired outcome I predict they will try to impose dictatorships onto our populations.

Let us not forget, if we look at the USSR it was a dictatorship which forced itself onto the people. Its the only way to force onto a population what they dont want and to prevent them gaining redress.

Socialist regimes tend to drift too over time because sane people are opposed to that political ideology. When a country fails to protect itself from socialism is results in a totalitarian regime emerging.

theres no coincidence that the great people of the UK & U.S voted for Brexit and to elect Trump. our two countries are the shining lights, beacons of light in a world where lesser countries are kicked around, and a populace only to readily to accept a political ideology. which turns the page and opens a new chapter on subverting democracy. just look at the actions through the courts. once the courts become political and make judgements on political matters its over.

look no further than the UK Supreme court here in the UK a foreign notion to us here in the UK. installed by Tony Blair in 2009 to mimic Europe. taking political matters out of the Law Lords and handing it to Courts. the Law Lords served us well from 1876 to 2009. 133 years but here we are now in the age of self, were if you dont like the result of your fellow citizen you take them to the courts. look no further than the Remain MP's taking politics out of parliament and using the (political courts) to instruct the Prime Minister in a political matter.

The fightback on both sides of the Atlantic as started, those deniers of democracy are fighting to keep their political ideology alive. we've seen their desperation. but we rest easy knowing they'll never convert enough of us for them to ever win. 

[itsnotoutthere]

2 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

Have to laugh at the English Nationalist types on here who can't write their own language. It reminds me of the flag protesters who stomped around waving their Union Jacks upside down or reversed!!

These are the people who voted for Brexit and laud a proven liar like Boris Johnson who hasn't the courage to submit to any form of public scrutiny or accountability. 

On the issue of science predicting another imminent ice age in the 1970s, that was a theory proposed by some scientists who were extrapolating from known data and theorising about the future. Theory is what drives science. We are constantly propounding theories and testing them empirically using our current state of knowledge, and even then some scientists cling on to their flawed theories when the scientific world has started to move on. It's human nature, and scientists are human. 

Of course, there is an element of the population who are ignorant of science, don't properly understand it and feel compelled to denigrate and disparage it. In the modern age they are facilitated in their 'opinion' by an online reservoir of information which they selectively or erroneously assimilate, using what they think they understand, and ignoring what they don't, and otherwise rejecting anything that challenges their defective world view. Often, as here in this thread, they are afforded a sense of validation by 'conspiratorial' online bloggers and commentators of like mind.

On democracy and the fact that it is only as good as the quality of its electorate, I like the following quotes:

'I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts, and beer.'  [Abraham Lincoln] 

'Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'' [Isaac Asimov]  

'The government you elect is the government you deserve. [Thomas Jefferson] 

As opposed to Irish nationalist types who just blow things up.

Edited December 6, 2019 by itsnotoutthere

[Electric Scooter]

2 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

1. Have to laugh at the English Nationalist types on here who can't write their own language. It reminds me of the flag protesters who stomped around waving their Union Jacks upside down or reversed!! These are the people who voted for Brexit and laud a proven liar like Boris Johnson who hasn't the courage to submit to any form of public scrutiny or accountability. 

2. On the issue of science predicting another imminent ice age in the 1970s, that was a theory proposed by some scientists who were extrapolating from known data and theorising about the future. Theory is what drives science. We are constantly propounding theories and testing them empirically using our current state of knowledge, and even then some scientists cling on to their flawed theories when the scientific world has started to move on. It's human nature, and scientists are human. 

3. Of course, there is an element of the population who are ignorant of science, don't properly understand it and feel compelled to denigrate and disparage it. In the modern age they are facilitated in their 'opinion' by an online reservoir of information which they selectively or erroneously assimilate, using what they think they understand, and ignoring what they don't, and otherwise rejecting anything that challenges their defective world view. Often, as here in this thread, they are afforded a sense of validation by 'conspiratorial' online bloggers and commentators of like mind.

4. On democracy and the fact that it is only as good as the quality of its electorate, I like the following quotes:

'I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts, and beer.'  [Abraham Lincoln] 

'Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'' [Isaac Asimov]  

'The government you elect is the government you deserve. [Thomas Jefferson] 

1. Nice bit of racism there.

2. You talk like you think there is conclusive evidence of an impending environmental disaster. Bad science is when a bunch of weak scientists/leaders cannot criticise and oppose flawed Group Think.

3. Right back at you.

4. That is the most disgraceful thing I have read all week. Whatever next? Ban the people from voting who you consider to represent members of a poor quality electorate. Are you a Democrat? You could have a bright future working for them, you and them think alike.

[bee]

 

John Major and Tony Blair are practically on their knees begging voters to reject Brexit
or Bregzit - as Blair calls it -  - I suppose we should expect nothing less from these
two Arch Remainers who have never accepted the Referendum result and are obviously
worried that we could be on the brink of a major development ....regarding Leaving...
They just took Project Fear onto another level to try to scare everyone...

While Major and Blair go into panic mode...Pat Condell explains clearly what has to be done to
secure leaving the EU....

And that is ...where there's a Brexit Party candidate standing vote for them...
and hope that they can get into Parliament and hold the balance of power,,,
 
Because Johnson wouldn't go for a Leave Alliance. Farage had to make the
decision to pull Brexit Party Candidates out of constituencies where the Tories were earmarked
to win... otherwise the Leave Vote would be split...   

So as Condell says..... (previous) Labour voting Working Class areas will decide it...
they hold the power in their hands to take Brexit forward in the form that it was originally
voted for and not what it has become ...

Maybe Blair's (and Major's) intervention will help to focus the minds of all those Leave voters
who have a Brexit Party Candidate to vote for.... 

 

 

[Setton]

11 hours ago, bee said:

  So as Condell says..... (previous) Labour voting Working Class areas will decide it...

they hold the power in their hands to take Brexit forward in the form that it was originally
voted for and not what it has become ...

So to leave with a great deal (which hasn't materialised), as the Leave campaign promised?

Sounds like they'll be voting Labour then.