Far-right terrorism is on the rise in the UK

[RoofGardener]

22 minutes ago, Setton said:

....Why 2000? There have been several major step changes since then. I'd say go from 2016 onwards - when the so called caliphate began to collapse. 

In which case, I think it's about the same ratio of successful attacks as foiled ones (1:2). That's just off the top of my head though. 

Dunno... it just seemed a nice round figure ? Islamist attacks have been fairly constant over this period ? 

[BrooklynGuy]

1 hour ago, Setton said:

And I am sorry you have nothing to contribute to the discussion. I'm sorry you don't realise how much you embarrass yourself when you try and talk about the UK. And most of all, I'm sorry  you apparently have nothing better to do than find every thread a post in and post a completely pointless reply. 

Enjoy your indoctrination 

That's much better and thanks for the well deserved insults.  

[+and-then]

5 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

One might hypothesise that the increase in "right wing" terrorist plots (almost non of which ever actually come to fruition) are inspired by people reacting to the Islamist attacks, but that is just a hypothesis. 

Ya think?  Apparently, in Setton world even nominal self-defense is called terrorism if the "wrong people" are defending themselves.

[Setton]

6 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Dunno... it just seemed a nice round figure ? Islamist attacks have been fairly constant over this period ? 

Disagree. Islamist plots have changed dramatically with the rise and fall of ISIS. 

[Setton]

1 hour ago, and then said:

Ya think?  Apparently, in Setton world even nominal self-defense is called terrorism if the "wrong people" are defending themselves.

Feel free to back that up with quotes of mine anytime you fancy. 

Otherwise, you're just supporting terrorism because it's not a Muslim doing it. 

[RoofGardener]

13 hours ago, Setton said:

Disagree. Islamist plots have changed dramatically with the rise and fall of ISIS. 

Hmm... really ? 

Non of the major Islamist attacks in the UK have been traced back to ISIS ? 

Al Quada and the Muslim Brotherhood peripherally perhaps, but not ISIS ? 

[Setton]

2 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Hmm... really ? 

Non of the major Islamist attacks in the UK have been traced back to ISIS ? 

Al Quada and the Muslim Brotherhood peripherally perhaps, but not ISIS ? 

Sorry, but you're flat out wrong. 

Westminster, Manchester, London Bridge and Parsons Green were all ISIS. 

[RoofGardener]

53 minutes ago, Setton said:

Sorry, but you're flat out wrong. 

Westminster, Manchester, London Bridge and Parsons Green were all ISIS. 

Hmmm...Parsons Green and London Bridge perhaps. However, neither Westminster nor Manchester where ISIS attacks. (although ISIS attempted to claim responsibility. But then they try and take responsibility for EVERYTHING, up to and including Global Warming, warm beer, and Benny Hill). Neither where the 7/7 London attacks. 

"sorry, but you're flat out wrong"  

[Setton]

4 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Hmmm...Parsons Green and London Bridge perhaps.

Nevermind 'perhaps'. They were. 

Quote

However, neither Westminster nor Manchester where ISIS attacks.

Sure, sure. Not like Abedi was trained to make explosives by an ISIS group. Oh wait... 

Quote

 Neither where the 7/7 London attacks. 

Never said they were. Would be difficult for them to be, seeing as they predate ISIS. 

This is why I suggest 2016 as the cutoff. Before 2014, you have non-isis attacks. 2014-2016 is characterised by highly coordinated, sophisticated plans like the Bataclan. After that, its low sophistication, self radicalised individuals.

[RoofGardener]

13 hours ago, Setton said:

Nevermind 'perhaps'. They were. 

Sure, sure. Not like Abedi was trained to make explosives by an ISIS group. Oh wait... 

Never said they were. Would be difficult for them to be, seeing as they predate ISIS. 

This is why I suggest 2016 as the cutoff. Before 2014, you have non-isis attacks. 2014-2016 is characterised by highly coordinated, sophisticated plans like the Bataclan. After that, its low sophistication, self radicalised individuals.

I disagree with your analysis @Setton regarding Westminster and Manchester, and the Police agree with me. Well, most of them, anyway. They where carried out by radicalised individuals, but there was no particular evidence of ISIS involvement. 

Notwithstanding, the discussion was about terrorism (in the context of the warning about right-wing terrorism). Even if we use your window of 2016-2019, there have been FAR more fatalities due to Islamic terrorism in the UK than there have been by "right wing" extremists, by a factor of 10 ! 

Of course, the article warned about foiled attacks, and said that there had been an increase in foiled right-wing attacks, not that they represented a majority. It is rare for the security services to release details of foiled plots, except when these result in arrests and a court trial, so we have to take their word for it. 

My only concern is that the incident of foiled right-wing attacks might be exaggerated in order to detract from the large number of Islamist attacks. (just as the FBI did in the US recently). I would hope that  the Metropolitan Police would be above such "political correctness". 

[Duke Wellington]

On 11/5/2019 at 9:26 AM, RoofGardener said:

Hmm... really ? 

Non of the major Islamist attacks in the UK have been traced back to ISIS ? 

Al Quada and the Muslim Brotherhood peripherally perhaps, but not ISIS ? 

In the UK many segments of our black population buy into a culture where they feel abandoned and like second rate citizens in our country. They get angry, some go bonkers, and the next thing you know there are a load of splattered people on London Bridge.

Of course they claim what they do is `inspired by ISIS` but they dont actually exist here.

Edited November 6, 2019 by RabidMongoose

[Setton]

4 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

I disagree with your analysis @Setton regarding Westminster and Manchester, and the Police agree with me. Well, most of them, anyway. They where carried out by radicalised individuals, but there was no particular evidence of ISIS involvement. 

Uhuh. I'm sure you're quite the expert... 

Quote

Notwithstanding, the discussion was about terrorism (in the context of the warning about right-wing terrorism). Even if we use your window of 2016-2019, there have been FAR more fatalities due to Islamic terrorism in the UK than there have been by "right wing" extremists, by a factor of 10 ! 

Indeed. I don't think anyone is disputing that? 

Quote

Of course, the article warned about foiled attacks, and said that there had been an increase in foiled right-wing attacks, not that they represented a majority. It is rare for the security services to release details of foiled plots, except when these result in arrests and a court trial, so we have to take their word for it. 

My only concern is that the incident of foiled right-wing attacks might be exaggerated in order to detract from the large number of Islamist attacks. (just as the FBI did in the US recently). I would hope that  the Metropolitan Police would be above such "political correctness". 

I'm confident they are. 

Interested in any source behind that FBI allegation. 

[Duke Wellington]

4 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

I disagree with your analysis @Setton regarding Westminster and Manchester, and the Police agree with me. Well, most of them, anyway. They where carried out by radicalised individuals, but there was no particular evidence of ISIS involvement. 

Notwithstanding, the discussion was about terrorism (in the context of the warning about right-wing terrorism). Even if we use your window of 2016-2019, there have been FAR more fatalities due to Islamic terrorism in the UK than there have been by "right wing" extremists, by a factor of 10 ! 

Of course, the article warned about foiled attacks, and said that there had been an increase in foiled right-wing attacks, not that they represented a majority. It is rare for the security services to release details of foiled plots, except when these result in arrests and a court trial, so we have to take their word for it. 

My only concern is that the incident of foiled right-wing attacks might be exaggerated in order to detract from the large number of Islamist attacks. (just as the FBI did in the US recently). I would hope that  the Metropolitan Police would be above such "political correctness". 

I think its easier to monitor established right-wing groups to gain info on the nutters before they do anything. All they have to do is send a few undercover police officers to become members.

But when its a few black guys out the back of a takeaway planning then it slips under the radar.

Edited November 6, 2019 by RabidMongoose

[Setton]

1 minute ago, RabidMongoose said:

I think its easier to monitor established right-wing groups to gain info on the nutters before they do anything. All they have to do is send a few undercover police officers to become members.

But when its a few black guys out the back of a takeaway planning then it slips under the radar.

True. And let's be honest, the right wingers are pretty new at this - they're not going to be much good at hiding yet. 

[Duke Wellington]

1 minute ago, Setton said:

True. And let's be honest, the right wingers are pretty new at this - they're not going to be much good at hiding yet. 

I think you will find that all political parties and political groups in the UK are infiltrated by undercover police officers as are all Mosques.

While the percentage of right-wingers and deeply religious Muslims who would do anything are quite low, infiltration allows the state to identify which ones are dangerously crazy nutters. The right-wing have been around for much longer than we have had a significant immigrant population. Centuries in fact.

[RoofGardener]

21 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

I think you will find that all political parties and political groups in the UK are infiltrated by undercover police officers as are all Mosques.

While the percentage of right-wingers and deeply religious Muslims who would do anything are quite low, infiltration allows the state to identify which ones are dangerously crazy nutters. The right-wing have been around for much longer than we have had a significant immigrant population. Centuries in fact.

Indeed @RabidMongoose. But most of the terrorist attacks in the UK over the last 200 years have been left-wing !

[RoofGardener]

43 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

In the UK many segments of our black population buy into a culture where they feel abandoned and like second rate citizens in our country. They get angry, some go bonkers, and the next thing you know there are a load of splattered people on London Bridge.

Of course they claim what they do is `inspired by ISIS` but they dont actually exist here.

And yet most Islamist terrorists are from reasonably well-off backgrounds, and have higher-than-average education. As for "second rate citizens", that is simply not true. What IS true is that they read - and believed - a book, and that turned them into murderers. 

[Duke Wellington]

2 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Indeed @RabidMongoose. But most of the terrorist attacks in the UK over the last 200 years have been left-wing !

Let us not forget that the worst terror attack in history came from the left-wing.

It resulted in the Enabling Act being passed making Adolf dictator. Look what he went on to do! 

[Duke Wellington]

2 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

And yet most Islamist terrorists are from reasonably well-off backgrounds, and have higher-than-average education. As for "second rate citizens", that is simply not true. What IS true is that they read - and believed - a book, and that turned them into murderers. 

We dont know that most are from well off backgrounds.

I only recall the media saying two of ours had degrees over the last few years.

[Essan]

But surely most terrorists in the UK have been right wing?   Either nationalists (IRA) or conservative religious extremists (Islamic jihadists)?

The only left wingers I can think of are animal rights/climate change protestors?   Most of whom are annoying twerps rather than actual terrorists.

Guy Fawkes was probably left wing - but most people these days think he had the right idea!
 

[Duke Wellington]

1 minute ago, Essan said:

But surely most terrorists in the UK have been right wing?   Either nationalists (IRA) or conservative religious extremists (Islamic jihadists)?

The only left wingers I can think of are animal rights/climate change protestors?   Most of whom are annoying twerps rather than actual terrorists.

Guy Fawkes was probably left wing - but most people these days think he had the right idea!
 

Guy Fawkes was Catholic who wanted to blow up a Protestant Parliament.

At that period in history one moment the Catholics would be in charge and burn the Protestants at the stake, the next moment it would be the other way around, and back and forth. There was quite a lot of religious in fighting back then. In some parts of Scotland and Northern Ireland given the chance they would return back to that lol.

[RoofGardener]

5 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

We dont know that most are from well off backgrounds.

I only recall the media saying two of ours had degrees over the last few years.

Hmmm.. this was from a general study I saw a couple of months ago. I'll have to try and dig it up

 

[aztek]

On 11/4/2019 at 7:21 AM, RoofGardener said:

Lets not get this out of proportion. The Met officer simply explained that there had been a significant increase in foiled "right-wing" terrorist plots that where intended to take life. 

I've no doubt that this is true. Two thirds (roughly) of foiled terrorist plots remain Islamist, as does the loss of life due to ACTUAL terrorist attacks since 2001 in the UK. One might hypothesise that the increase in "right wing" terrorist plots (almost non of which ever actually come to fruition) are inspired by people reacting to the Islamist attacks, but that is just a hypothesis. 

The Police have a duty to foil ALL terrorist plots. If THEY see an increase in "right-wing" plots, then they have to react accordingly. 

So tell me... since the year 2000 ... how many successful "right wing terrorist plots" have actually come to fruition ? And then how many Islamist plots ? 

would it be incidents that they themselves helped create? like provide some young dumb idiots with an idea, and fake explosives, then bust him, and paint themselves hero?  we got fbi doing it here,

[RoofGardener]

32 minutes ago, aztek said:

would it be incidents that they themselves helped create? like provide some young dumb idiots with an idea, and fake explosives, then bust him, and paint themselves hero?  we got fbi doing it here,

I don't think we do that in the UK. Our anti-entrapment laws are too strong ? 

[Setton]

4 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

I think you will find that all political parties and political groups in the UK are infiltrated by undercover police officers as are all Mosques.

I think you will find I'm not disputing that..?