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Manwon Lender

White House Expects Impeachment

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and then
9 hours ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

CNN Guest: “President Donald Trump is as destructive a person as Hitler, Stalin, and Mao combined.” :mellow:

" He may be responsible for many more deaths in this century than they were in the last century."

 

 

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Katniss
2 hours ago, bee said:

 

Well thank you so much Katniss for your little, simplistic psychological analysis ... :rolleyes:
Delivered as if I wasn't here to read it... 

Does it logically follow that all the Trump and Putin Detractors / Haters are wise young people like yourself...?

Trump and Putin are contemporary political leaders, not historical figures you know.. . ;)  
 

 

I know you're paying attention. That's why I mentioned you and really to give Farmer a different perspective about some people who post in U.S. forums from another country. Some people like yourself really think the world of Trump and Putin and are not Russian trolls. That's just my observation from my experience dealing with people who really love Trump. The only wise people I know are long gone. So I'm not one of them.

 

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OverSword
17 minutes ago, Katniss said:

The only wise people I know are long gone. So I'm not one of them.

Hi there :D

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Tatetopa
4 hours ago, bee said:

Does it logically follow that all the Trump and Putin Detractors / Haters are wise young people like yourself...?

Nope, some of us are old and slow and came by our knowledge the hard way.  We have seen enough con men and dog and pony shows to recognize one when we see it. TV preachers, politicians and fake financial experts have a lot in common.

Sometimes you can tell when things are not going according to their plan when they start sexing up their rates of return. We had a monthly jobs report come out from Trump's administration.  128,000 new jobs in a month.   Not  bad ah? Even Ivanka used that number in her congratulatory tweet.  The President needed spectacular, so he tweeted 300,000.   That is how Bernie Madoff took the life savings of all of those grannys and grandpas; faking the numbers.  Eventually, Ponzi schemes fall apart.  This one might take a few more years.

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Tatetopa
3 hours ago, and then said:

No, Manwon, there was NOT more than two taking part in the call.  This is inaccurate and nonsensical.  Trump was speaking directly to Zelinsky and all the others were passive listeners who took no part whatever in the communication going on between the two leaders.  I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand. 

So would you say that there are really only two people involved in most crimes, the victim and the perpetrator, that half a dozen witnesses don't count?  That too seems like a reach and nonsensical.  Passive listeners still hear what is being said.

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Tatetopa
3 hours ago, and then said:

He's making the Demedia look like the gang who couldn't shoot straight and you guys are clueless and fawning in anticipation of his fall.  Happy Holidays, Manwon

Happy holidays Manwon and Merry Christmas andthen.   I have a jigsaw puzzle table with a built in turntable to make for Christmas.  I don't have media in my shop.  So I won't be fretting.

Naw this won't take him down.  Even if he was John Dillinger or Bernie Madoff the Republicans need to stick together for their own survival.   His job performance next term might.

Bailing out the farmers in the best economy in modern history has cost twice as much as the much hated auto bailout  done to try to end a recession.  The trade war isn't even settled yet and more farmers will likely go broke before it ends.

Our growth is bopping along at less than 3%, about the same as it was under Obama when Trump said that result was unacceptable.  He promised 6% to offset the tax cuts. He tweeted 300,000 jobs gained when the official number was 128,000.

If you look at your 401K most of the gain was in the first 3 quarters of his presidency.  It has slowed down considerably for the last two years.

People that vote on the health of the economy, those independents who didn't drink the personalty cult kool-aid will not be following the impeachment.   They will be looking at the market and watching to see if Warren Buffett finds a good investment for the $128 billion dollars in cash Berkshire Hathaway is sitting on right now.   That might be more important than how the Democrats and Republicans drag each other through the mud and end up voting.

 

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and then
1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

Passive listeners still hear what is being said.

Their OPINIONS about what was said is what is being offered as EVIDENCE of wrongdoing by the president.  You can't grasp how messed up that is?  It's the equivalent of saying that the witnesses understood more of what was being said than the participants did.  What kind of crazy ass arrogance thinks that way?  Only in Trump world...

So to sum up the Impeachment basis:

Trump and, more importantly, Zelinsky, have stated there was no pressure to do anything.

Zelinsky did not know any flow of aid had been interrupted.

Trump never got his "investigation" before the aid DID flow so, where, exactly did the "this for that" occur?  

This is just another attempt to take him down and one really would have to be a fool to believe in this premise or to expect it to do anything more than create noise while Durham and Barr steadily round up the truth about "Russian Collusion"  I feel safe in predicting the Demedia's utter descent into hysteria with lots of references to "CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS"  When/If Durham files indictments against some of the main players.  We haven't yet seen just how crazy these vastards can get but we are about to.  And you and a few others here will be right in that Conga line dancing with them.  

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Manwon Lender
6 hours ago, and then said:

No, Manwon, there was NOT more than two taking part in the call.  This is inaccurate and nonsensical.  Trump was speaking directly to Zelinsky and all the others were passive listeners who took no part whatever in the communication going on between the two leaders.  I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand.  Did any of the others on the line or those who listened second hand have any INPUT in the conversation?  You are grasping at straws because you WANT the opinions they state to be given equal weight.  It's ridiculous, frankly.  It'd be like two old ladies on an old fashioned "Party Line" telephone from the 30s talking about a recipe and having 20 of their neighbors say that recipe was THEIRS.  

You can invest as much time and passion as you like in this farce but you are going to be disappointed - again.  This travesty isn't going to take him down.  If it plays out as I've heard some expect it to do, we'll be dealing with an Impeachment trial during the CHRISTMAS HOLIDAYS. 

People like to slip into a relaxation mode and huddle with family and friends at that precious fleeting time of the year.  It's going to pizz a bunch of people off to have this nonsense crammed down their throats OR, it will simply be ignored and when the new year rolls in and people get back to their normal routines they'll notice the Senate acquitted Trump and Impeachment failed to remove him.  IOW he won...AGAIN.

He's making the Demedia look like the gang who couldn't shoot straight and you guys are clueless and fawning in anticipation of his fall.  Happy Holidays, Manwon ;) 

Taking part means transcriptions, and actions just like it says below. I appreciate you taking my comments out of context, if that gets your jollies off so be it, I thought there was more to you than that. The information below came right off the transcript that was released by the White House concerning the Presidents call to the Ukraine..

 

CAUTION: A Memorandum of a Telephone Conversation (TELCON) is not a verbatim transcript of a discussion. The text in this document records the notes and recollections of Situation Room Duty officers and NSC policy staff assigned to listen and memorialize the conversation in written form as the conversation takes place. A number of factors can affect theaccuracy of the record, including poor telecommunications connections and variations in accent and/or interpretation, The word “inaudible” is used to indicate portions of a conversation that the notetaker was unable to hear.

Edited 21 hours ago by Manwon Lender
 

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Manwon Lender
11 hours ago, and then said:

No, Manwon, there was NOT more than two taking part in the call.  This is inaccurate and nonsensical.  Trump was speaking directly to Zelinsky and all the others were passive listeners who took no part whatever in the communication going on between the two leaders.  I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand.  Did any of the others on the line or those who listened second hand have any INPUT in the conversation?  You are grasping at straws because you WANT the opinions they state to be given equal weight.  It's ridiculous, frankly.  It'd be like two old ladies on an old fashioned "Party Line" telephone from the 30s talking about a recipe and having 20 of their neighbors say that recipe was THEIRS.  

You can invest as much time and passion as you like in this farce but you are going to be disappointed - again.  This travesty isn't going to take him down.  If it plays out as I've heard some expect it to do, we'll be dealing with an Impeachment trial during the CHRISTMAS HOLIDAYS. 

People like to slip into a relaxation mode and huddle with family and friends at that precious fleeting time of the year.  It's going to pizz a bunch of people off to have this nonsense crammed down their throats OR, it will simply be ignored and when the new year rolls in and people get back to their normal routines they'll notice the Senate acquitted Trump and Impeachment failed to remove him.  IOW he won...AGAIN.

He's making the Demedia look like the gang who couldn't shoot straight and you guys are clueless and fawning in anticipation of his fall.  Happy Holidays, Manwon ;) 

Taking part means transcriptions, and actions just like it says below. I appreciate you taking my comments out of context, if that gets your jollies off so be it, I thought there was more to you than that. The information below came right off the transcript that was released by the White House concerning the Presidents call to the Ukraine..

 

CAUTION: A Memorandum of a Telephone Conversation (TELCON) is not a verbatim transcript of a discussion. The text in this document records the notes and recollections of Situation Room Duty officers and NSC policy staff assigned to listen and memorialize the conversation in written form as the conversation takes place. A number of factors can affect theaccuracy of the record, including poor telecommunications connections and variations in accent and/or interpretation, The word “inaudible” is used to indicate portions of a conversation that the notetaker was unable to hear.

 

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and then
5 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Taking part means transcriptions, and actions just like it says below.

So you believe that those who listened in on a conversation can understand the intent of the actual participants better than they themselves?  Two people discussed issues while everyone else L I S T E N E D to what was said.  The 3rd party types have only their OPINIONS about what was said.  If I listened in on a conversation between you and your boss or spouse or a fellow church member, do you really think I could better characterize what you MEANT than you could, yourself?  Be rational for a change.

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Manwon Lender
38 minutes ago, and then said:

So you believe that those who listened in on a conversation can understand the intent of the actual participants better than they themselves?  Two people discussed issues while everyone else L I S T E N E D to what was said.  The 3rd party types have only their OPINIONS about what was said.  If I listened in on a conversation between you and your boss or spouse or a fellow church member, do you really think I could better characterize what you MEANT than you could, yourself?  Be rational for a change.

No I think you need to be rational, people who listened know what was said. It's their jobs, to transcribe, to memorize, and for some to translate. For a moment you can't beleive that people listening to a conversation first hand don't have the ability to comprehend it? You are really off the deep end, your so full of hate and bitterness that you are making statements that are no longer worth addressing. I am truly sorry for you, I really am.:no:

Edited by Manwon Lender
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RoofGardener
22 hours ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

CNN Guest: “President Donald Trump is as destructive a person as Hitler, Stalin, and Mao combined.” :mellow:

" He may be responsible for many more deaths in this century than they were in the last century."

 

Apparently, he was referring to the impact of Global Warming over the next few decades. Quite why that would relate to President Trump is a mystery. 

But then this is the professor who stated that, while Trump is not insane, the people who voted for him MIGHT be ! 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Frances#Book_and_statements_on_Donald_Trump

Frances wrote a 2017 book, titled, Twilight of American Sanity, in which he asserts that Trump himself does not suffer from a mental disease, but rather that the problem lies with the American people for selecting him as U.S. President.[9][8][7] Frances writes in the book: "Calling Trump crazy allows us to avoid confronting the craziness in our society.

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ExpandMyMind
2 hours ago, and then said:

So you believe that those who listened in on a conversation can understand the intent of the actual participants better than they themselves?

Yes. That's their job. A lifetime career in government and diplomacy substantial enough to see them working in the White House would suggest that they - probably everyone listening to the call - are experienced enough to understand a conversation between two politicians. 

It's pretty unambiguous for anyone listening, never mind those directly involved in the events.

As for the 'better than they themselves?', you're arguing that witness testimony in general is useless. Your argument is that the only person in a trial that people can trust is the defendant. That only a person accused of a crime is trustworthy enough to testify to his motive. It's patently ridiculous, especially when that person still hasn't given a reasonable explanation of their actions.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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ExpandMyMind
53 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Quite why that would relate to President Trump is a mystery

He left the Paris Accords, which, when you think about it, will likely be the single largest contributing factor that any one individual will make towards the rise of global warming. 

I don't agree with the comparison though because in order for him to reach the moral lows of the like of Hitler, he would have to have intent and not just monumental levels of ignorance.

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RoofGardener
1 minute ago, ExpandMyMind said:

He left the Paris Accords, which, when you think about it, will likely be the single largest contributing factor that any one individual will make towards the rise of global warming. 

I don't agree with the comparison though because in order for him to reach the moral lows of the like of Hitler, he would have to have intent and not just monumental levels of ignorance.

Yeah.. and his 8-year (maximum) term of office would really influence global warming, to the extent of causing tens of millions of deaths worldwide ? (Bearing in mind that the USA cannot actually LEAVE the Paris Agreement until 2020 ? )

I think NOT, somehow ! 

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ExpandMyMind
7 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Yeah.. and his 8-year (maximum) term of office would really influence global warming, to the extent of causing tens of millions of deaths worldwide ? (Bearing in mind that the USA cannot actually LEAVE the Paris Agreement until 2020 ? )

I think NOT, somehow ! 

Uh, yeah, considering the cascading effect that decisions made now will have in future generations with regards to climate change, I think that 8 years (assuming the US then re-enters the Accords) is plenty of time to cause irreparable harm. Not only directly, but with the position of the US as a world leader it could influence others to follow suit.

Don't get me wrong, it's still conjecture sprinkled with hyperbole. I was just showing that it's not as unreasonable a claim as someone might initially think.

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Farmer77
3 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Apparently, he was referring to the impact of Global Warming over the next few decades. Quite why that would relate to President Trump is a mystery. 

LOL is this satire? :lol:

E.P.A. to Roll Back Rules to Control Toxic Ash from Coal Plants

rump Wants To Exempt Tongass National Forest From Roadless Rule

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RoofGardener
17 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Yeah. That Evil Man. Except.. of course.. neither of the above have ANYTHING to do with Global Warming. 

In addition...... The New York Times article is HYPOTHESISING what the Environment Agency MIGHT do. 

the National Public Radio article CLAIMS that President Trump WANTS to relax the rules.. without offering ANY corroborating evidence/information to support that premis. 

Poor stuff @Farmer77. :D 

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Farmer77
2 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Yeah. That Evil Man. Except.. of course.. neither of the above have ANYTHING to do with Global Warming. 

In addition...... The New York Times article is HYPOTHESISING what the Environment Agency MIGHT do. 

the National Public Radio article CLAIMS that President Trump WANTS to relax the rules.. without offering ANY corroborating evidence/information to support that premis. 

Poor stuff @Farmer77. :D 

Yeah I confess I didnt put much effort into it. At this point trump wanting to harm the environment should be common knowledge like water gets **** wet.

 

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RoofGardener
1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

Yeah I confess I didnt put much effort into it. At this point trump wanting to harm the environment should be common knowledge like water gets **** wet.

Well.. yes... of COURSE he wants to harm the environment. He probably goes to bed every night dreaming of global environmental armageddon. Along with strangling small kittens, of course. And stealing sweets from children. Or visa versa ! 

Edited by RoofGardener
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Farmer77
31 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Well.. yes... of COURSE he wants to harm the environment. He probably goes to bed every night dreaming of global environmental armageddon. Along with strangling small kittens, of course. And stealing sweets from children. Or visa versa ! 

LOL is that what you think my vision of Trump is?  Nahhhhh  hes just a narcissist who has a pipeline to the drug he needs running straight to the folks who benefit from repealing environmental regulations.

Like this:

Fox Business Network Host Lou Dobbs Tells Viewers President Donald Trump Makes Weekends 'Possible for Us All' :yes:

Edited by Farmer77
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Farmer77

Speaking of expecting impeachment :

Trump will ask Supreme Court to take New York tax returns case after losing appeal

Quote

A federal appeals court ruled Monday that President Donald Trump’s tax returns must be turned over to a state grand jury.

In a unanimous ruling, the three-judge appeals panel in New York rejected Trump’s argument that he is immune as president from criminal investigation while in the White House.

 

Edited by Farmer77
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Tatetopa
18 hours ago, and then said:

Their OPINIONS about what was said is what is being offered as EVIDENCE of wrongdoing by the president.

It is not their opinions.  It is what they heard, not facial expressions or internal guesses about what the president was thinking, just what they heard.

Same as with a crime witness, the lawyers in a trial don't ask the witness to speculate on what the perpetrator was thinking or what his motivation was (that would be OPINION) just what they witnessed.  

Now you can question the credibility of the witness as defense attorneys are likely to do and try to prove the testimony false, but it is facts that are being questioned, not opinions.

Likewise a prosecutor might bring up a number of instances to demonstrate that the accused has a history of exaggeration and prevarication, and that his word is of dubious value.

Due process, and that is what we will get to see.

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bee

 

re. all this about the transcripts of the Zelensky phone call and the notes and accuracy and what not...

it's common (ish) knowledge now that every phone call, email and text made is recorded and stored - 
and more than this... mobile phones listen to and record? people in real time... the Facebook App. does it
and it's safe to say that they are not the only one.... and the intelligence services will be doing it..
it's also safe to say that every word Trump says is recorded and it's 100% safe to say that the Zelensky 
call was recorded - every word of it - with top notch equipment - 

so I don't get how there is supposed to be any confusion with interpretation / omissions / opinions
by the note takers... ?

when a complete recording will be available....
 

Edited by bee

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Tatetopa
38 minutes ago, bee said:

so I don't get how there is supposed to be any confusion with interpretation / omissions / opinions
by the note takers... ?

when a complete recording will be available....

Very good point.  All that is needed is the White House to produce the original they sequestered in a secure server.  End of contention.

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