McKinley: State Dept politically weaponised

[SHaYap]

You Americans are crazy ... 

~

[F3SS]

Maybe if Biden was a formidable opponent there might be an ounce of weight to a quid pro quo accusation but he's not. He's frail, lacks any gusto and age isn't treating him well.

As it is though, there isn't anything besides assumption to suggest Trump held foreign/military aid (any difference?) over Ukraine's head. Even if he did, why can't he? Or can he even do that? Not sure what the rules are here since Congress controls the purse strings.

Anyhow, let's say simply holding money over their heads was the case. Trump's reasoning is that he is seeking information on possible corruption within the United States government, aka Biden and son. 

Meanwhile, Biden is literally on video telling a story about holding 1 billion dollars over Ukraine's head unless they fire a specific prosecutor. Recently, Biden excused that as he was just fighting corruption with implied nobility. My question on that, besides the obvious answer of his son's involvement, is what business is it of his to fight corruption in another country? To the tune of a billion dollars at that. 

Where's the consistency here? If the same people fauxing outrage at Trump were dragging Biden off of the debate stage and into the hotseat for undeniably doing the exact, and maybe even worse, things that they're assuming Trump did then maybe I'd lend them some credence but they're not and I won't. Believe me, I'd like to not be so divided. I'd like to feel like both sides have valid points here but I don't and I'm not going to. There is no consistency, no sincerity and no visible integrity coming from the left side of Capitol Hill. Seriously, has this current House done any actual legislative work besides drawing up ridiculous multi-trillion dollar economy crushing progressive dream plans? I see a landslide coming. 

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, and then said:

If anyone actually offers proof of crimes it might make SOME difference but you are correct, it wouldn't be enough to get rid of him.  One does not knock holes in one's lifeboat because it needs paint.  The fools here are those like yourself who, no matter how many times his special relationship with his followers is explained, refuse to listen or believe.  So rage on Cat Daddy...

We believe you.  You have a special relationship. That explains a lot.  Tell you what though,  I didn't get in the life boat with Hillary and I damsure won't get in one with the current WH resident.

Being an engineer, I think I'll stay aboard and try to fix the ship.  Maybe a few talented friends will help.  Anyway we will probably be better off with the  pirates off in their own unpainted lifeboat.

[+and-then]

10 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Won't change many of people on this thread.  A lot of us think ALL corruption in government should be rooted out, and not just in the Ukraine.

I agree.  I think we should begin with those who are about to be shown to have attempted a coup on this president.  What the rest here believe is up to them.  They're just kidding themselves if they think the Bad Orange Man is going away due to this farce.

[+and-then]

13 minutes ago, third_eye said:

You Americans are crazy ... 

~

Yes... we are... be afraid, be VERY afraid 

[Tatetopa]

Just now, and then said:

agree.  I think we should begin with those who are about to be shown to have attempted a coup on this president.  What the rest here believe is up to them.  They're just kidding themselves if they think the Bad Orange Man is going away due to this farce.

Oh no, on this I agree.  Your evidence may come to naught, your excuses have not been logical.  The real reason Trump will stay on, crooked or not is that the Republicans cannot afford to let him fall, or at least be seen by Trump fans as not doing enough to save him.  He will survive, and may even be reelected.  That is politics, not much to do about guilt or innocence, just power and what people are willing to do to get it or keep it.

[+and-then]

11 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Being an engineer, I think I'll stay aboard and try to fix the ship.  Maybe a few talented friends will help.  Anyway we will probably be better off with the  pirates off in their own unpainted lifeboat.

GOOD!  I guess that means you will finally get onboard with the changes president Trump wants to put in place in his next term?

[SHaYap]

10 minutes ago, and then said:

Yes... we are... be afraid, be VERY afraid 

Nahhhh I'm laughing, VERY hard and loud... 

~

[Tatetopa]

14 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Meanwhile, Biden is literally on video telling a story about holding 1 billion dollars over Ukraine's head unless they fire a specific prosecutor. Recently, Biden excused that as he was just fighting corruption with implied nobility. My question on that, besides the obvious answer of his son's involvement, is what business is it of his to fight corruption in another country? To the tune of a billion dollars at that. 

Where's the consistency here? If the same people fauxing outrage at Trump were dragging Biden off of the debate stage and into the hotseat for undeniably doing the exact, and maybe even worse, things that they're assuming Trump did then maybe I'd lend them some credence but they're not and I won't. Believe me, I'd like to not be so divided. I'd like to feel like both sides have valid points here but I don't and I'm not going to. There is no consistency, no sincerity and no visible integrity coming from the left side of Capitol Hill. Seriously, has this current House done any actual legislative work besides drawing up ridiculous multi-trillion dollar economy crushing progressive dream plans? I see a landslide coming.

You could actually do a little  homework and read the original stories.  The EU, the World Bank, and the Pentagon all wanted the Ukrainian prosecutor to go because he was corrupt and diverting some of the aid money we were sending. In effect, he and his buds were skimming off the top.  Biden got charged with getting rid of the guy.  It was no secret deal, as you say, it was even on TV. 

Now you are free to believe that BIden was able to convince Obama, the European Union and the World Bank to step in and save junior, but it seems unlikely that it would take that much fuss to get Hunter Biden out of the way..  If it is  the case that Joe Biden who you all claim is feeble and not that smart to pull the wool over the eyes of the EU and World Bank, then Barr and Dunham should concentrate on exposing that.   

[Tatetopa]

9 minutes ago, and then said:

GOOD!  I guess that means you will finally get onboard with the changes president Trump wants to put in place in his next term?

What would those be?

[+and-then]

Just a little more grist for the mill:

https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-releases/judicial-watch-documents-reveal-obama-state-department-official-in-contact-with-russian-embassy-political-chief-one-month-before-trump-inauguration/?utm_source=deployer&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=tipsheet&utm_term=members&utm_content=20191105014354

https://www.judicialwatch.org/documents/jw-v-state-dept-records-steele-prod-10-00968/ 

The holes just keep growing.  Hope the water is warm enough to swim in and there aren't too many sharks. 

 

 

[Agent0range]

33 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Meanwhile, Biden is literally on video telling a story about holding 1 billion dollars over Ukraine's head unless they fire a specific prosecutor.

Again.  Context matters.  Who was Biden acting for in that situation?  Was he lone wolfing it, and making that decision himself?  And now we have a Trump commercial airing every 10 minutes saying how bad it was that Biden did that...WHEN TRUMP JUST DID THE SAME THING FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES.  But now we have the Trumper twits thinking what Biden did was wrong, and what Trump did was a "perfect, beautiful phone call."  You can't make this stuff up.

Go ahead though.  Set these precedents.  Let the next democrat in office ask for our allies to investigate their rivals.  Let the next Democratically ran Senate tell the President they can't pick a Supreme Court Justice because there is an election coming up.  Let the next House investigations go by the rules the Republicans changed when it comes to investigations.  Oh..wait...we see how they're crying about that.  You people want a dictator.  Thank God I'll outlive this pathetic time in our country.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Agent0range

[+and-then]

Just now, Agent0range said:

But now we have the Trumper twits thinking what Biden did was wrong, and what Trump did was a "perfect, beautiful phone call."  You can't make this stuff up.

Then why do you keep trying to do so?  I've said before, if little big boy, Hunter hadn't been involved with the prosecutor's work, I'd agree that Biden did nothing wrong.  As you said, CONTEXT MATTERS.

[Gwynbleidd]

 

46 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Won't change many of people on this thread.  A lot of us think ALL corruption in government should be rooted out, and not just in the Ukraine.

You are absolutely right!  100% agreed @Tatetopa  It's never limited to just one side.  

[Robotic Jew]

37 minutes ago, and then said:

Then why do you keep trying to do so?  I've said before, if little big boy, Hunter hadn't been involved with the prosecutor's work, I'd agree that Biden did nothing wrong.  As you said, CONTEXT MATTERS.

He wasn't though....

[F3SS]

1 hour ago, Agent0range said:

Again.  Context matters.  Who was Biden acting for in that situation?  Was he lone wolfing it, and making that decision himself?  And now we have a Trump commercial airing every 10 minutes saying how bad it was that Biden did that...WHEN TRUMP JUST DID THE SAME THING FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES.  But now we have the Trumper twits thinking what Biden did was wrong, and what Trump did was a "perfect, beautiful phone call."  You can't make this stuff up.

Go ahead though.  Set these precedents.  Let the next democrat in office ask for our allies to investigate their rivals.  Let the next Democratically ran Senate tell the President they can't pick a Supreme Court Justice because there is an election coming up.  Let the next House investigations go by the rules the Republicans changed when it comes to investigations.  Oh..wait...we see how they're crying about that.  You people want a dictator.  Thank God I'll outlive this pathetic time in our country.

Please with precedents. The Dems have been trying to set precedents for the last several years. Terrible ones. Honestly, if there were any real substance, or again consistency (tell Vlad I'll have more flexibility after my election), to the things they've presented I'd be ok with seeing things play out properly. As it is though, all I've seen is hysterics and desperation. Russia was about removing Trump. Ukraine is about defeating him in 2020. There's no honesty, integrity or patriotism involved whatsoever. 

[F3SS]

Oh the mocking laugh reaction. It hurts so much.

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, Robotic Jew said:

He wasn't though....

Sure, he was.  He had a job for which he had ZERO experience and he was "earning" 83K a MONTH.  Surely you aren't dumb enough to really believe he was being paid for his services.  Finally, even if by some miracle he was worth that amount to them for some reason other than his last name, his proximity to the prosecutor that was fired was reason enough for the president to ask for an investigation.  The fact that Trump's enemies want to assume he was out to get a political rival just shows their own idiocy.  Trump wasn't worried about Biden.  Creepy uncle Joe wasn't even likely to get the nomination.  The PTB has decided that Pocahontas is the one.  So all you're left with are suppositions and everyone has a right to their own when it comes to such guesses.

 

[+and-then]

30 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Oh the mocking laugh reaction. It hurts so much.

  Guts me every time he does it 

[Farmer77]

9 hours ago, F3SS said:

Maybe if Biden was a formidable opponent there might be an ounce of weight to a quid pro quo accusation but he's not. He's frail, lacks any gusto and age isn't treating him well.

You cant say that. At this point in the 2016 election Trump wasnt considered formidable. He was a fat , lazy, draft dodging liar who insulted veterans and could never get conservatives to support him. Yet here we are with POTUS Trump.

9 hours ago, F3SS said:

Anyhow, let's say simply holding money over their heads was the case. Trump's reasoning is that he is seeking information on possible corruption within the United States government, aka Biden and son. 

Dont forget theres also holding even getting to appear with Trump over Zelenskys head.

9 hours ago, F3SS said:

Meanwhile, Biden is literally on video telling a story about holding 1 billion dollars over Ukraine's head unless they fire a specific prosecutor. Recently, Biden excused that as he was just fighting corruption with implied nobility. My question on that, besides the obvious answer of his son's involvement, is what business is it of his to fight corruption in another country? To the tune of a billion dollars at that. 

The entire western world was fighting that fight. You cant just ignore the context.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Farmer77

[Farmer77]

7 hours ago, F3SS said:

Please with precedents. The Dems have been trying to set precedents for the last several years. Terrible ones. Honestly, if there were any real substance, or again consistency (tell Vlad I'll have more flexibility after my election), to the things they've presented I'd be ok with seeing things play out properly. As it is though, all I've seen is hysterics and desperation. Russia was about removing Trump. Ukraine is about defeating him in 2020. There's no honesty, integrity or patriotism involved whatsoever. 

 Is this kind of mantraism for you or for us?

We have his words in black and white. You can argue the substance of the words in the transcript (i suppose?) but to claim that the Ukraine story is solely about defeating him in 2020 is pretty embarrassing for you.

[Robotic Jew]

6 hours ago, and then said:

Sure, he was.  He had a job for which he had ZERO experience and he was "earning" 83K a MONTH.  Surely you aren't dumb enough to really believe he was being paid for his services.  Finally, even if by some miracle he was worth that amount to them for some reason other than his last name, his proximity to the prosecutor that was fired was reason enough for the president to ask for an investigation.  The fact that Trump's enemies want to assume he was out to get a political rival just shows their own idiocy.  Trump wasn't worried about Biden.  Creepy uncle Joe wasn't even likely to get the nomination.  The PTB has decided that Pocahontas is the one.  So all you're left with are suppositions and everyone has a right to their own when it comes to such guesses.

 

He wasn't involved with the prosecutor. 

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/oct/11/donald-trump/trump-ad-misleads-about-biden-ukraine-and-prosecut/

Quote

• Biden did want Shokin fired, but western leaders had widely criticized the prosecutor general as corrupt and ineffective. Biden was leading a widespread consensus in asking for removal.

• A former Ukrainian official said the investigation into Burisma was dormant under Shokin.

 

[ExpandMyMind]

1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

The entire western world was fighting that fight. You cant just ignore the context.

I don't think he's ignoring the context. I think he just isn't being given context from wherever he gets his news.

[Farmer77]

12 hours ago, and then said:

Face it, chuckles... the hit job has failed, the King is still alive and any fool knows what that means    I'll offer you the same advice I just gave our friend from the land of Haggis, find a face-saving narrative, soon  

So even if what is happening were a hit job (it's not) what you and the POTUS are arguing for is an executive who is above all accountability. How do you justify that? 

Edited November 5, 2019 by Farmer77

[Robotic Jew]

6 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

I don't think he's ignoring the context. I think he just isn't being given context from wherever he gets his news.

I go back and forth on this. A lot of times I think this is the case. Then others I think some of these folks just have to be trolling. Nobody can be that hard headed but then I think of this scene in It's Always Sunny...