ExpandMyMind Posted November 8, 2019 #26 Share Posted November 8, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, DieChecker said: AFAIK, the "neutrals", aka Independents, are split 50/50 on if Trump committed a crime worthy of impeachment or not. I dont think the arguement is what Trump did, but if it reaches the level of requiring impeachment. Given, it is looking more and more like the case, but guilt, or even illegality, has not been established yet. At least IMHO. At this stage of Nixon's impeachment, the public support for removal was much, much lower. The televised hearings changed that very quickly. Well, I'd imagine that trying to bribe a foreign leader itself would be impeachable, considering bribery is mentioned specifically in the Constitution. But there are loads of other crimes and abuses of power. The crime and cover-up amount to conspiracy (and a large one, given how many people were involved), there's obstruction and witness intimidation, bribery, abuse of power, campaign fraud and likely perjury if he actually testifies. It's in reality it's closer to extortion than bribery, but I believe the law states that when a foreigner is extorted his life must be threatened for it to apply. There are probably others I'm missing. It's genuinely difficult to keep track of all his crimes. Regardless, Impeachment doesn't require a crime, just misusing public office. There are plenty of things you can be fired from public office for without it reaching the level of criminal. To suggest that a demonstrable crook, who it was revealed just yesterday admitted to stealing millions from his fake charity, should hold the position of President is yet more evidence that the timeline split and we're now living in an episode of Dark Mirror. What Republicans are doing right now to protect Trump would have been unthinkable ten years ago and unimaginable twenty. Imagine if your Founding Fathers had looked forward in time and seen Donald Trump? Edited November 8, 2019 by ExpandMyMind 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpandMyMind Posted November 8, 2019 #27 Share Posted November 8, 2019 20 minutes ago, BrooklynGuy said: Let me know how I'm doing so far with my well reasoned and thought out reply when you have a minute because I sincerely value your opinion on this matter. Well, you created a strawman rather than reply to my question, so I'm going to go with 'not well'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted November 8, 2019 #28 Share Posted November 8, 2019 (edited) Like Dark Mirror reference... Well, Nixon didnt have to deal with the internet, and almost everyone leaking to anyone that will listen, and a 24/7/365 news cycle on multiple channels/sites. But I agree on the Trump self inflicted slow self destruction. I'd rather some other GOP candidate stood up and ran against Trump. Failing someone else running. And given Warren as the D candidate, I still think I'd have to vote Republican. Even though Biden is a bit creepy. I could see supporting him to a lesser, or greater degree. Meaning, I'd either stay home, or vote for him. Warren, I think, I would actively vote against, regardless of the R candidate. Edited November 8, 2019 by DieChecker 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynGuy Posted November 8, 2019 Author #29 Share Posted November 8, 2019 Try as the Dems might it doesn't look like this Farce gets past the Senate. Hopefully these hearings will be the end of the partisan bickering and both parties will go back to talking about the real issues facing Americans and the solutions they have for each of them. On a humorous note ads for Pepto Bismol were plastered on both of these articles, I'm sure their sales are up in DC if not around the Country. Senator Tim Scott doesn't believe Trump committed an "impeachable offense" Senator Tim Scott believes "there is not an impeachable offense in the transcript" of President Trump's July 25th call with the Ukrainian president. Should Mr. Trump be impeached by the House of Representatives, it would fall to Scott and the rest of the Senate to be jurors in the trial of the president and determine whether he should be removed from the presidency. On "The Takeout" podcast this week, the South Carolina Republican told CBS News chief Washington correspondent Major Garrett that the testimony of Bill Taylor, the top American diplomat in Ukraine, and Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union, was "confusing and inconsistent," and he cited Sondland's revised testimony this week as a contradiction of his original testimony. Read more: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-impeachment-hearings-senator-tim-scott-doesnt-believe-trump-committed-impeachable-offense-2019-11-08/ Republicans Railed Against Secret Impeachment Hearings, But Now Say They Won’t Watch The Public Ones Despite loudly criticizing the closed-doors secrecy of the impeachment inquiry, Senate Republicans widely say they will not watch the public hearings next week. Some said they would be too busy, others cited a lack of faith in the inquiry itself. Sen. Richard Shelby argued it would be inappropriate to watch the hearings since impeachment will likely lead to a trial before the Senate. “I wouldn’t want to see that,” he said of the hearings. “That wouldn’t affect me at all.” Read more: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/paulmcleod/republicans-secret-impeachment-hearings-tv-wont-watch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynGuy Posted November 8, 2019 Author #30 Share Posted November 8, 2019 More on the story: Jim Jordan to be moved to House Intelligence Committee House Republicans announced Congressman Jim Jordan as an addition to the House Intelligence Committee, replacing Congressman Rick Crawford. The pugilistic Jordan, a former wrestling coach known for his avoidance of suit jackets, has been a strong defender of President Trump as the ranking member of the House Oversight Committee and a prominent member of the House Judiciary Committee. Republican leaders in the House are hoping that Jordan can bring his combative questioning style to the first open hearings in the impeachment inquiry held by the Intelligence Committee next week. Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy has sole discretion over Intelligence Committee assignments. Read more: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jim-jordan-to-be-moved-to-house-intelligence-committee/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted November 8, 2019 #31 Share Posted November 8, 2019 1 hour ago, BrooklynGuy said: Try as the Dems might it doesn't look like this Farce gets past the Senate. Hopefully these hearings will be the end of the partisan bickering and both parties will go back to talking about the real issues facing Americans and the solutions they have for each of them. Oh cousin you are a devious one. Were you smiling when you wrote that line? When this is over, if he has retained power, the President will begin the revenge and humiliation cycle that is characteristic of his dealing with rivals. His true followers will expect no less. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynGuy Posted November 8, 2019 Author #32 Share Posted November 8, 2019 41 minutes ago, Tatetopa said: Oh cousin you are a devious one. Tatetopa you sweet talker you, thanks for the compliment you made my day 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpandMyMind Posted November 8, 2019 #33 Share Posted November 8, 2019 3 hours ago, Tatetopa said: When this is over, if he has retained power, the President will begin the revenge and humiliation cycle that is characteristic of his dealing with rivals. His true followers will expect no less. That's a scary thought. His entire Presidency is nothing more than revenge for Obama roasting him in 2012, so God knows how he'd top that to get back at his enemies. Supreme Emperor of the Sol System? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted November 8, 2019 #34 Share Posted November 8, 2019 11 hours ago, Gromdor said: It seems to me that Trump is dead set on adding violating the whistle blower protection law to his list of impeachment crimes. NPR claimed it's technically legal to reveal the whistleblower. https://www.npr.org/2019/11/06/776481504/can-trump-legally-out-the-whistleblower-experts-say-it-would-not-violate-any-law 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted November 8, 2019 #35 Share Posted November 8, 2019 Just now, spartan max2 said: NPR claimed it's technically legal to reveal the whistleblower. https://www.npr.org/2019/11/06/776481504/can-trump-legally-out-the-whistleblower-experts-say-it-would-not-violate-any-law The fourth line down in your article says he can be impeached for it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted November 8, 2019 #36 Share Posted November 8, 2019 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Gromdor said: The fourth line down in your article says he can be impeached for it. They said there are no actual laws against it. They say legislative members could try to argue its retaliation, then try to impeach. Which dosent mean much. Legislative members can technically try to impeach for any reason. Quote If Trump thinks he knows the name, he can come out and say it, and he's probably as protected as anyone is," said Robert Litt, former general counsel for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence under President Barack Obama. Litt and several other legal experts who talked to NPR said Trump uttering or tweeting the name could in theory trigger an article of impeachment for retaliating against a whistleblower, but it would not run afoul of any federal criminal statutes. Edited November 8, 2019 by spartan max2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent0range Posted November 9, 2019 #37 Share Posted November 9, 2019 18 minutes ago, spartan max2 said: They said there are no actual laws against it. They say legislative members could try to argue its retaliation, then try to impeach. Which dosent mean much. Legislative members can technically try to impeach for any reason. No broken law unless there is retaliation. Now, Trump said the democrats don't want to name the whistleblower because there "will be hell to pay" is a pretty damning statement. ANY negative action against the whistleblower will certainly hold up in court as a violation of the protection act. If I was the whistleblower, I would stroll on in to work, smiling and whistling with the smuggest of looks on my face. It would be epic. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpandMyMind Posted November 9, 2019 #38 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Another witness testified: Quote Fiona Hill, the former National Security Council staffer responsible for Russia and Ukraine, told lawmakers during her testimony that it became clear during a July 10 meeting at the White House that an Oval Office visit for Ukraine’s president was contingent on him opening an investigation into President Trump’s political rivals. Hill told lawmakers that Gordon Sondland, the US Ambassador to the European Union, said there was an agreement with acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney that “they would have a White House meeting or, you know, a Presidential meeting, if the Ukrainians started up these investigations again.” “Ambassador Sondland, in front of the Ukrainians, as I came in, was talking about how he had an agreement with Chief of Staff Mulvaney for a meeting with the Ukrainians if they were going to go forward with investigations,” Hill said. She said the suggestion alarmed then-national security adviser John Bolton, who “immediately stiffened” and ended the meeting. Separately, top White House expert on Ukraine Alexander Vindman testified that Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland characterized the request for investigations by Ukraine — or a “deliverable” — as coordinated with Mulvaney, according to the transcript of his testimony released today. https://edition.cnn.com/webview/politics/live-news/impeachment-inquiry-11-08-2019/h_49b09d780c91259d0c812bbe07c98c96 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted November 9, 2019 #39 Share Posted November 9, 2019 2 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said: That's a scary thought. His entire Presidency is nothing more than revenge for Obama roasting him in 2012, so God knows how he'd top that to get back at his enemies. Supreme Emperor of the Sol System? Yes, as it should be. Based on his own comments, I don't think he will ever conceive of losing the 2020 election. It does seem unlikely, but it could happen. A lot of people did not wan to vote for Clinton and many others, so disenchanted with the status quo of politics that they were looking for a change. They may decide Trump is not the change they were looking for. If it happens, he may denounce it as fake and likely call upon his supporters to put things to right. He will be worried about his ego, not the nation. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted November 10, 2019 #40 Share Posted November 10, 2019 On 11/8/2019 at 9:08 AM, BrooklynGuy said: Senator Tim Scott believes "there is not an impeachable offense in the transcript" Unless something Earth shattering happens more and more Im starting to think the Republicans may fall back on : hes innocent on the phone call but he's guilty of obstruction of congress and maybe the campaign finance violation regarding the request for a public announcement on CNN in exchange for a meeting with Trump. This will allow them to publicly support Trump on the issues he can obfuscate through his Twitter screeds while being able to save face on the incontrovertible stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynGuy Posted November 10, 2019 Author #41 Share Posted November 10, 2019 Here is the latest Propaganda from the news media on the Impeachment Inquiry. I tried to find something from Fox Fake News but I think they are preoccupied with the IG's investigation into the alleged FISA abuses so Politico will have to do. Whistleblower's attorney reacts to GOP call for testimony reiterating client will answer questions in writing An attorney for the unnamed intelligence whistleblower who came forward with information about President Trump’s dealings with Ukraine reacted Saturday to calls for his client to testify in the coming public impeachment hearings by reiterating that person is only willing to answer questions in writing. “My client’s complaint has been largely corroborated. Nonetheless, I have offered to have my client respond in writing, under oath, and under penalty of perjury to Republican questions,” Andrew Bakaj said in a statement to CNN. Read more: https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/impeachment-inquiry-11-10-2019/index.html Trump says he'll release transcript of a second call with Ukrainian president Tuesday President Donald Trump on Saturday said he plans to release a transcript of a second phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday, one that occurred months before the July call that kickstarted House Democrats' impeachment inquiry. "They want to have a transcript of the other call, the second call, and I'm willing to provide that. We'll probably give it on Tuesday, Monday being a holiday," Trump told reporters at Joint Base Andrews before boarding Air Force One to attend a college football game in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Read more: https://www.politico.com/news/trump-impeachment 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted November 10, 2019 #42 Share Posted November 10, 2019 8 hours ago, Farmer77 said: Unless something Earth shattering happens more and more Im starting to think the Republicans may fall back on : hes innocent on the phone call but he's guilty of obstruction of congress and maybe the campaign finance violation regarding the request for a public announcement on CNN in exchange for a meeting with Trump. This will allow them to publicly support Trump on the issues he can obfuscate through his Twitter screeds while being able to save face on the incontrovertible stuff. Very much like with the Mueller Report. Claim the crime didnt happen, but work to obstruct, which turns into the only actual actionable crime. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted November 10, 2019 #43 Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) GOP request for wittinesses of the whistle blower and Biden's son for the public testimony phase. And a third. Quote Republicans also planned to call the younger Biden's former long-time business partner, Devon Archer, who also sat on the board of Burisma. Republicans claim Archer can help the public to understand "the nature and extent of Ukraine's pervasive corruption information that bears directly on President Trump's longstanding and deeply-held skepticism of the country." Schiff himself said in September the whistleblower would appear before Congress “very soon,” but in recent weeks has suggested that testimony is unnecessary. Schifft reports he will deny both. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/adam-schiff-whistleblower-republicans-impeachment-inquiry Edited November 10, 2019 by spartan max2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwynbleidd Posted November 11, 2019 #44 Share Posted November 11, 2019 (edited) FYI Eric CIAramella was in the Obama 2015 Visitor Logs. Feb 26th. https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/default/files/disclosures/whitehouse_waves-2015_12.csv_.zip You're welcome. Edited November 11, 2019 by Gwynbleidd 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpandMyMind Posted November 11, 2019 #45 Share Posted November 11, 2019 10 hours ago, spartan max2 said: GOP request for wittinesses of the whistle blower and Biden's son for the public testimony phase. And a third. Schifft reports he will deny both. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/adam-schiff-whistleblower-republicans-impeachment-inquiry Of course he will. What has Biden got to do with the investigation? The actions by Trump and his administration exist separate from any conspiracy theory accusations they have. Calling witnesses that have nothing to do with the Impeachment does nothing but distract from the proceedings, which is what Republicans want to do. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted November 11, 2019 #46 Share Posted November 11, 2019 https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sen-graham-impeachment-dead-on-arrival-in-senate-dem-prevent-whistleblower-testimony Quote Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., accused House Intelligence Committee Chairman Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., of not caring about the truth, and said Schiff's impeachment efforts will go nowhere unless he calls the anonymous whistleblower to come forward and testify about their complaint against President Trump. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted November 11, 2019 #47 Share Posted November 11, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said: Of course he will. What has Biden got to do with the investigation? The actions by Trump and his administration exist separate from any conspiracy theory accusations they have. Calling witnesses that have nothing to do with the Impeachment does nothing but distract from the proceedings, which is what Republicans want to do. I'm just reporting the news at this point. I basically feel alot how @DieChecker feels. This is his quote below. It's a **** spot to be in. Quote Like Dark Mirror reference... Well, Nixon didnt have to deal with the internet, and almost everyone leaking to anyone that will listen, and a 24/7/365 news cycle on multiple channels/sites. But I agree on the Trump self inflicted slow self destruction. I'd rather some other GOP candidate stood up and ran against Trump. Failing someone else running. And given Warren as the D candidate, I still think I'd have to vote Republican. Even though Biden is a bit creepy. I could see supporting him to a lesser, or greater degree. Meaning, I'd either stay home, or vote for him. Warren, I think, I would actively vote against, regardless of the R candidate. Edited November 11, 2019 by spartan max2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted November 11, 2019 #48 Share Posted November 11, 2019 21 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said: Of course he will. What has Biden got to do with the investigation? The actions by Trump and his administration exist separate from any conspiracy theory accusations they have. Calling witnesses that have nothing to do with the Impeachment does nothing but distract from the proceedings, which is what Republicans want to do. I think they should call Hunter Biden in. Then he can testify under oath that he was neither under investigation nor knew anything about/was involved in Trump's call. Perhaps we should also call in Donald Trump and put him under oath? I'm skeptical that he would do it given his refusal during the Mueller investigation. He's one of those "innocent guys" that clams up under oath but has plenty to say about those backstabbing witnesses when he isn't. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwynbleidd Posted November 11, 2019 #49 Share Posted November 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Gwynbleidd said: FYI Eric CIAramella was in the Obama 2015 Visitor Logs. Feb 26th. https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/default/files/disclosures/whitehouse_waves-2015_12.csv_.zip You're welcome. Feb 26th is simply one date. If you open the zip file you'll see the following. Each line item is a different date. If you argue that Eric CIAramella worked at the Whitehouse and he would have to sign in. Remember, this is the Visitor's log. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwynbleidd Posted November 11, 2019 #50 Share Posted November 11, 2019 (edited) I'm not going to post any more, you get the idea. There is a lot more than 14 times in the Visitors log. Edited November 11, 2019 by Gwynbleidd ugh spelling 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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