Afterlife, digital copies or clones

[Habitat]

13 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Habitat

That is almost a complete thought would you care to expand on it. The topic at hand is not about religious/non-religious commonly known afterlife where a person dies and goes some place else or re-born in a different time or place in space by divine or godly cause so if that is what you wish to discuss there is another thread dedicated to that concept of afterlife and would be of greater benefit there.

Here we are discussing consciousness to an android or clone which does not necessitate specifically that one must die only transfer their consciousness so if your response to me is relative to the subject at hand please do engage and expressing complete thoughts would greatly appreciated.

jmccr8

Nothing changes, the idea that your mental state is independent of body chemistry, is nonsense. the idea that the "contents of the mind" could be transferred, is fraught to say the least

Edited November 9, 2019 by Habitat

[jmccr8]

20 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

The topic of Mr Walker and his claims dominates these forums because Mr Walker is constantly dominating these forums. Just give it a little bit and he'll be in here tonight quoting everyone while spam posting walls of text with unsubstantiated BS about himself. Thus, we admonish him for it.

Hi Aquilla

I specifically created this thread so that Walker, myself and a few others would not derail other threads with these discussions and would hope that people would respect that and lets us explore without bringing in bad feelings about him expressing himself here as I told him this would be a safe place to do this and appreciate everyone that will allow this to continue.

jmccr8

[Aquila King]

4 minutes ago, Habitat said:

If you had a ratbag neighbour, would you admonish him, when he is having no effect on you ? He is having an effect on you, and that effect is in providing a foil for your prejudices.

I have no idea what that line about "foil to your prejudices" means, but okay... 

Anyway, if he was off just doing his own thing then I genuinely wouldn't care. It's just annoying to see him spam posting in every thread, turning the whole discussion around to be all about him, and then quoting everyone (including me) who posts in the topic, when I genuinely could not give the least bit of a s**t about whatever he has to say.

He's just an annoying nuisance IMO. I typically don't bother engaging with him unlike others here, which they're perfectly within their right to do. I just don't do so personally.

[jmccr8]

1 minute ago, Habitat said:

Nothing changes, the idea that your mental state is independent of body chemistry, is nonsense.

Hi Habitat

Then that is your position and of no real value in this particular discussion, If I open a thread for you and Will what subject would you like to explore in depth and with reasoned thought?

jmccr8

[Habitat]

1 minute ago, Aquila King said:

I have no idea what that line about "foil to your prejudices" means, but okay... 

Anyway, if he was off just doing his own thing then I genuinely wouldn't care. It's just annoying to see him spam posting in every thread, turning the whole discussion around to be all about him, and then quoting everyone (including me) who posts in the topic, when I genuinely could not give the least bit of a s**t about whatever he has to say.

He's just an annoying nuisance IMO. I typically don't bother engaging with him unlike others here, which they're perfectly within their right to do. I just don't do so personally.

When I go fishing, sometimes the fish are there, but won't bite. Be like that fish, but there appears to be a hunger involved, that sees the "team" come on the bite.....

[Aquila King]

1 minute ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Aquilla

I specifically created this thread so that Walker, myself and a few others would not derail other threads with these discussions and would hope that people would respect that and lets us explore without bringing in bad feelings about him expressing himself here as I told him this would be a safe place to do this and appreciate everyone that will allow this to continue.

jmccr8

Sorry about that. Didn't mean to bring that negativity here.  Habi just asked so I answered...

Anyway, I'm outta here for the night. Great idea for a thread btw. 

[Habitat]

4 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

this would be a safe place

You'll be safe, I promise

[jmccr8]

15 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

Sorry about that. Didn't mean to bring that negativity here.  Habi just asked so I answered...

Anyway, I'm outta here for the night. Great idea for a thread btw. 

Hi Aquilla

No problem and thanks.

jmccr8

[+Sherapy]

2 hours ago, Habitat said:

No, it actually resides with you and three eyes, who are frankly, both inordinately attached to dear Mr W. And Mr W well knows it, and dare I say, plays up to it, with good humour !

Out for a troll I see.

 

[Habitat]

15 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Out for a troll I see.

 

I'm not the one that continually questions his honesty. If I thought someone was deliberately dishonest, I'd ignore them.

[Mr Walker]

14 hours ago, Sherapy said:

I have no issue with agreeing to disagree. I was just putting it on the table that sexless marriage is not the norm.

Each to their own. 
 

 

Statistically true, but judgmental nonetheless. 

Many forms of relationship are "normal"  homosexual marriage is not the statistical  norm either, yet is "normal" 

[Mr Walker]

15 hours ago, LightAngel said:

 

The afterlife exists and it's very different than Mr Walker's idea.

Technology is considered very primitive when we reach the next level of consciousness!

 

That depends on how advanced the technology is   

eg suppose you had a technology where you only had to think of something and it was generated and transported to your location with no visible means of doing so.   Suppose you only had to think of a destination and you were transported there instantly, by a technologically based  transport system  which was not apparent  or visible from your location 

ANYTHING which is real is physical, and thus is amenable to technology 

Ps The next level of consciousness is very interesting,uplifting, liberating,  and "spiritually"  powerful,  but it only becomes practical, or useful, when it is linked to technology which transfers it into physical actions and abilities 

[Mr Walker]

15 hours ago, third_eye said:

Nice try, still a bridge too far, and no, there is nothing complicated about the otters, they never gave a dam, they made the dang dam. 

~

Then the y gave it to me  

plus i loved Nicole kidman in the film "the otters" 

[Mr Walker]

14 hours ago, Sherapy said:

From an evolutionary cloned perspective, popularity would matter in having an ability to get long, compromise, and adapt to changing circumstances this would help garner basic trust in ones competence. 
 

It’s ones demonstrated competence that lends to an overall confidence. 

 

I would say that skills and functionality are more important,  and valued more highly,  than  popularity.

So is honesty.

Of course those things MAKE a person truly popular, more than  just the persona one presents. 

[Mr Walker]

14 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Some people have both, love and sexual intimacy. 

well of course, and that is  always a bonus.

Some people can not have both

Some people  want one and not the other.

  eg many want sexual intimacy, but not to  have to make the effort to love.

Others want love but aren't too fussed about expressing sexual intimacy as part of that love, and may even prefer not to have to engage in it  

[Mr Walker]

12 hours ago, joc said:

In other words...he is delusional.  Noted.

 

No i will be dead before this is possible, and so if my life has not already been recorded by some alien intelligence,   i will stay dead.

In human  technological terms i am talking about the period between 2050 and 2100 before this is achieved 

And should it be possible tomorrow, i would not be my 20 year old mind. I would be my 68 year old mind in a 20 year old body And that would be even MORE fun. 

[Mr Walker]

11 hours ago, third_eye said:

I'm not persuaded that the consciousness defined as such fully measures up to the entirety of the entity, consider for instance if this recorded consciousness is downloaded into a vessel that is unidentifiable to itself, a look in the mirror only initiates a state of confusion, what carries on in terms of identity, how does one recognize oneself? Looking familiar but not quite recognizable... 

Isn't that a shade too similar to schizophrenia? 

~

 

No it is simply a matter of mental adjustment  Take a person who is in a coma for years or loses their memory for decades and then  awakens  and remembers 

The y look in the mirror, and the face they see is not their own as it was years ago  But the situation is explained to them and they either mourn the lost years or are grateful that their life has been restored   

With such an operation, a lot of counselling and preparation would occur, like that for any major operation, only more so  The consciousness KNOWS  who it is and what has happened to it and is EXPECTING the new body 

[Mr Walker]

8 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

In a way I have agreed that the afterlife doesnt exist.

Well... at least not yet because civilization hasn't advanced to the point where dead people from the past can be recovered. It will come. It might be decades away, it might be centuries, but it will happen.

Thats true for human civilization, but ..........

[papageorge1]

On 11/6/2019 at 2:42 PM, jmccr8 said:

So I was talking to Walker in another thread and he posed that the afterlife has never existed and we will create it by downloading consciousness and either creating genetic clones or implanted in tech like androids what are your thoughts. 

Somehow I just noticed this thread and it's 11 pages deep already. My first question would be to @Mr Walker    Is the above an accurate statement of your position?

I am of the school that the afterlife is when the astral/mental bodies separates permanently from the physical. Do you not believe in a natural afterlife?

 

[Mr Walker]

8 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Even with euthanasia being legal this process is not just a matter of exercising ones right. I was a live-in caregiver for a lady who wanted to exercise this right (she was on Hospice) meaning she was terminal. 
 

The first thing that happens is she saw a therapist, then she met with the doctor. (I was in the room too as her advocate). The reality for the US is even though Euthanasia is legal no doctor will sign off on it, but this particular doctor told her to hang in there and let nature takes its course. The therapist helped her deal with the frustration of suffering and dealing with a chronic illness with no family support, she had COPD. It is not uncommon for those who have a disease or chronic situation to be overwhelmed and want it to be over with often they need someone who just listens to their perspective with compassion.
 

I actually think you do a lot of good hearing your wife out, being seen as viable and worthwhile even in a compromised situation is key, it is very difficult for families to adjust to who the person has become due to the illness and the pressures the care puts on loved ones ( often there is guilt for being a burden ) family efforts tend to go towards getting them better instead of helping them adapt and see their dignity and worth and value regardless of circumstances. It sounds like to me you are doing a really good job adapting and providing her the support she needs. You most likely have figured this out already but if not my two cents, it is really helpful to get her a Caregiver who bonds with her, who really likes her as a person, and offers you and her emotional support too this will give you each someone to confide in and talk to. 

wont argue with this as conditions and legality of euthanasia vary widely across the world and it is still comparatively rare.

  My point was that a human being should have the right to ask for euthanasia but only while the y are able to make a logical informed choice .

America is interesting  Euthanasia is still Technically illegal but assisted suicide is not.

Go figure 

In other places euthanasia is legal and assisted suicide is a crime 

quote

What is euthanasia?

Euthanasia is the act of intentionally causing the death of a patient, normally to relieve the patient's pain, suffering, or loss of quality of life. To be considered euthanasia, the act must be performed by a third party. For example, giving a patient a lethal injection would be considered euthanasia.

What is assisted suicide?

Assisted suicide is the act of intentionally causing the death of a person, where the person themselves performs the last act which causes death to occur. For example, if a person swallows an overdose of drugs that have been provided by a doctor for the purpose of causing death, or if a patient pushes a switch to trigger a fatal injection after the doctor has inserted an intravenous needle into the patient's vein.

Is euthanasia legal?

The law is changing very rapidly with respect to euthanasia and assisted dying. Legislation on euthanasia in most countries distinguishes between passive euthanasia (withholding or withdrawing of life-preserving procedures including water and food) and active euthanasia (intentionally killing a person to relieve pain).

In Canada, passive euthanasia has been legal for quite some time, but active euthanasia was previously prohibited as a form of culpable homicide up until June 6th 2016 with a Supreme Court decision (Carter v Canada). It ruled that adults with grievous and irremediable medical conditions are entitled to physician-assisted suicide.

In the United States, while active euthanasia is illegal throughout the U.S., assisted suicide is legal in Oregon, Washington, Vermont, California (effective from June 2016), one county in New Mexico, and is de facto legal in Montana.

In the United Kingdom, euthanasia and assisted dying are both illegal. Section 2 of the Suicide Act 1961, as originally enacted, provided that it was an offence to "aid, abet, counsel or procure the suicide of another" and that a person who committed this offence was liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years. That section was amended by the Coroners and Justice Act 2009. Although it is an offence to assist a patient in committing suicide, many doctors still assist their patients with their wishes by withholding treatment and reducing pain. This, however, is only done when the doctors feel that death is a few days away and after consulting patients, relatives or other doctors.

https://www.expatlegalwills.com/euthanasia

Ps we cared for my wife's parents  with  Altzheimers,  in our home, for 6-10 years  until their death This informed my wife's opinion on how she would like to have her own life end. 

[spartan max2]

2 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Somehow I just noticed this thread and it's 11 pages deep already. My first question would be to @Mr Walker    Is the above an accurate statement of your position?

I am of the school that the afterlife is when the astral/mental bodies separates permanently from the physical. Do you not believe in a natural afterlife?

 

I too am curious about this,I always assumed Walker was spiritual.

Edited November 9, 2019 by spartan max2

[Mr Walker]

Just now, papageorge1 said:

Somehow I just noticed this thread and it's 11 pages deep already. My first question would be to @Mr Walker    Is the above an accurate statement of your position?

I am of the school that the afterlife is when the astral/mental bodies separates permanently from the physical. Do you not believe in a natural afterlife?

 

Not quite accurate I suspect all our minds are being recorded and stored in a form of virtual reality by the cosmic consciousness. So all our consciousnesses exist (and have done for all of human history)  and are even accessible  to living people who learn to access the archive   

However i don't believe there is a "natural"  life after death This is too much at odds with science and evolution, where our consciousnesses is a product of our mind and our mind is powered and supported by our brain/body. 

[+Sherapy]

21 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

well of course, and that is  always a bonus.

Some people can not have both

Some people  want one and not the other.

  eg many want sexual intimacy, but not to  have to make the effort to love.

Others want love but aren't too fussed about expressing sexual intimacy as part of that love, and may even prefer not to have to engage in it  

I’d say a good imagination would be an asset in a sexless marriage .

 

[Mr Walker]

1 minute ago, spartan max2 said:

I too am curious about this,I always assumed Walker was spiritual.

Oh i AM spiritual (although not religious)  Human self  aware consciousness creates ( and indeed IS)  the human spirit.

It is a unique and critical part of being human.

However it will die with our brain and body unless physically recorded.

Since i was about 13 I have been in contact with the cosmic consciousness,  which came to me through a gnosis or enlightenment, after i had been studying and learning to access /use  my mind for almostf a decade. 

To me this is what others feel believe and think of as god This arose when past humans had no idea of technology When the y encountered the cosmic consciousness it appeared to them as a magical being with god like powers. 

[papageorge1]

Just now, Mr Walker said:

Not quite accurate I suspect all our minds are being recorded and stored in a form of virtual reality by the cosmic consciousness. So all our consciousnesses exist (and have done for all of human history)  and are even accessible  to living people who learn to access the archive   

However i don't believe there is a "natural"  life after death This is too much at odds with science and evolution, where our consciousnesses is a product of our mind and our mind is powered and supported by our brain/body. 

This surprises me. You think consciousness is a product of the brain (as opposed to incarnating a brain). But you apparently do believe in cosmic consciousness?