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Eldorado

Americans are losing their religion

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Eldorado

"The portion of Americans with no religious affiliation is rising significantly, in tandem with a sharp drop in the percentage that identifies as Christians, according to new data from the Pew Research Center.

"Based on telephone surveys conducted in 2018 and 2019, Pew said Thursday that 65% of American adults now describe themselves as Christian, down from 77% in 2009. Meanwhile, the portion that describes their religious identity as atheist, agnostic or “nothing in particular,” now stands at 26%, up from 17% in 2009.

"Both Protestant and Roman Catholic ranks are losing population share, according to Pew. It said 43% of U.S. adults identify as Protestants, down from 51% in 2009, while 20% are Catholic, down from 23% in 2009."

Full article at Time: https://time.com/5704040/american-religious-affiliations-decreasing/

At Pew Research Center forum: https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/

 

Not just the US, of course.....

"Teachers are less religious today than they were 50 years ago. In some ways, this is no surprise – the profession’s loss of religion mirrors society.

"In August the British Attitudes Survey reported a doubling in the past two decades of the number of people who don’t believe in God."

Full report at Schoolsweek UK: https://schoolsweek.co.uk/teachers-are-losing-their-religion-and-breaking-the-rules/

Edited by Eldorado
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and then
On 11/10/2019 at 11:33 AM, Jodie.Lynne said:

Perhaps, the rise (ahem) of atheism is a sign that humans are outgrowing the need for superstitions?

Perhaps you're right.  I mean, the world's civility and grace under pressure has certainly improved over the last few decades, right?  When mention of God is totally removed, we should be in a real paradise of our own making.  Meanwhile...our kids are committing suicide at record rates, marriages are failing the same way, alcoholism, drug abuse, pornography addiction, all seem to be helped by scoffing at a higher spiritual Being.  Yep, we're doing just DANDY.  Heaven forbid people believe in something greater and more worthy than their own pitiful lives.  

The truth is reflected in how messed up our planet is today.  Not just America, ALL of the globe.  In fact, it's damned near lights out and the tension is rising between nations and between citizens within those nations to a point that someday we're going to see a war that causes every other conflict, EVER, to pale in comparison.  And THAT will be on US...NOT "superstitions"  

*snip*

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, and then said:

Perhaps you're right.  I mean, the world's civility and grace under pressure has certainly improved over the last few decades, right?  When mention of God is totally removed, we should be in a real paradise of our own making.  Meanwhile...our kids are committing suicide at record rates, marriages are failing the same way, alcoholism, drug abuse, pornography addiction, all seem to be helped by scoffing at a higher spiritual Being.  Yep, we're doing just DANDY.  Heaven forbid people believe in something greater and more worthy than their own pitiful lives.  

The truth is reflected in how messed up our planet is today.  Not just America, ALL of the globe.  In fact, it's damned near lights out and the tension is rising between nations and between citizens within those nations to a point that someday we're going to see a war that causes every other conflict, EVER, to pale in comparison.  And THAT will be on US...NOT "superstitions"  

Hope you get to experience it up close and personal.

Nothing has changed, we're only more aware of it now. We also need to consider that nothing last forever either. It's an endless cycle of destruction and creation. Your god will die and be replaced by a new one. This is how it has always been. 

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XenoFish

Just to add. I've been toying with the idea of paganism and witchcraft as of recent. I'm not fan of authoritarian belief systems. I feel the call of chaos magick again. 

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Inn Spectre
2 hours ago, Eldorado said:

 

"Based on telephone surveys conducted in 2018 and 2019, Pew said Thursday that 65% of American adults now describe themselves as Christian

 

So that's 65% of those prepared to give the time of day to telephone pollsters. If you're not among them, you should be smart enough to see how worthless such a poll is.

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openozy

Could be people are becoming too smart for their own good,not followers anymore.I can see societies ending up in anarchy.

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Hankenhunter
3 hours ago, and then said:

Hope you get to experience it up close and personal

Don't be a dick.

Edited by Hankenhunter
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crookedspiral
5 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Perhaps, the rise (ahem) of atheism is a sign that humans are outgrowing the need for superstitions? That, maybe, perhaps, we no longer need to look at the supernatural, to explain the natural workings of our world and universe?

 

Some people who declare as ''agnostic'' or ''nothing in particular'' may hold spiritual beliefs. Because you are not sure that God exist or don't ascribe to any particular belief system or faith doesn't mean you don't a tendency to believe in some Univeral force, Intelligent Principle, aliens, ghosts, entities, ect. How many are actually materialist atheist? Probably a small percentage.

Edited by crookedspiral
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Imaginarynumber1
3 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

How nice of you to hope that @Jodie.Lynne get to experience the worst conflict ever. I presume the same goes for me ?

Of course the same goes for you. And Then is a zealot who advocates for violence against and actively wishes for the death, pain, and suffering of those that not only do not believe the same as him religiously, but also politically. 

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Imaginarynumber1
3 hours ago, Inn Spectre said:

So that's 65% of those prepared to give the time of day to telephone pollsters. If you're not among them, you should be smart enough to see how worthless such a poll is.

Perhaps you should be smart enough to understand how statistics work.

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openozy
4 hours ago, and then said:

Perhaps you're right.  I mean, the world's civility and grace under pressure has certainly improved over the last few decades, right?  When mention of God is totally removed, we should be in a real paradise of our own making.  Meanwhile...our kids are committing suicide at record rates, marriages are failing the same way, alcoholism, drug abuse, pornography addiction, all seem to be helped by scoffing at a higher spiritual Being.  Yep, we're doing just DANDY.  Heaven forbid people believe in something greater and more worthy than their own pitiful lives.  

The truth is reflected in how messed up our planet is today.  Not just America, ALL of the globe.  In fact, it's damned near lights out and the tension is rising between nations and between citizens within those nations to a point that someday we're going to see a war that causes every other conflict, EVER, to pale in comparison.  And THAT will be on US...NOT "superstitions"  

Hope you get to experience it up close and personal.

That was some good stuff,except the last sentence.

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spartan max2
1 hour ago, crookedspiral said:

Some people who declare as ''agnostic'' or ''nothing in particular'' may hold spiritual beliefs. Because you are not sure that God exist or don't ascribe to any particular belief system or faith doesn't mean you don't a tendency to believe in some Univeral force, Intelligent Principle, aliens, ghosts, entities, ect. How many are actually materialist atheist? Probably a small percentage.

Yeah I was going to point that out.

Ass youngster I definitely have freinds who are atheist and others who are Christian. 

But I also have some who don't really hold any religious beliefs but feel like there is probably some higher being out there.

Edited by spartan max2

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Jodie.Lynne
6 hours ago, and then said:

Hope you get to experience it up close and personal.

Aww, you say the sweetest things! And amply demonstrate the hypocrisy of your beliefs.

But it's OK for you to be a vile, hateful and judgmental little snot, because you are only a flawed little human, and your god forgives you, yeah?

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Aquila King
7 hours ago, and then said:

our kids are committing suicide at record rates, marriages are failing the same way, alcoholism, drug abuse, pornography addiction, all seem to be helped by scoffing at a higher spiritual Being.  Yep, we're doing just DANDY.  

All those problems are basically the effects of living in late stage capitalism, yet rather than address the real issues causing these crises, you prefer to pimp out the problem solving to your imaginary sky daddy.

This is just another reason why disbelief is on the rise, especially amongst young people. We're facing real problems that the previous generations caused, and rather than fix those problems with real world solutions, you berate us and tell us to simply "pray more." All your religion offers us is an excuse for even more inaction.

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Aquila King
6 hours ago, openozy said:

Could be people are becoming too smart for their own good,not followers anymore.I can see societies ending up in anarchy.

Anarchy might just be preferable to the current system...

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Jodie.Lynne
6 hours ago, openozy said:

Could be people are becoming too smart for their own good,not followers anymore.I can see societies ending up in anarchy.

I don't see the correlation between giving up religious beliefs and anarchy. Could you elaborate?

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eight bits
4 hours ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Perhaps you should be smart enough to understand how statistics work.

Tricky business, statistics. It's hard for any analysis to be better than the data being analyzed.

Pew is much admired in the trade for doing the best they can with subjects that are inherently difficult to measure. The intuition is that having some numbers to work with is better than wild ess guesses. Probly so. But how precise the estimates are is reasonably in doubt.

American phone-based opinion surveys began in disgrace ( https://www.math.upenn.edu/~deturck/m170/wk4/lecture/case1.html  ), then arguably got better for a while. The original problem was that having a phone at home was a luxury. American utility policy favored universal access, however, and after WW II there was a "golden age" when almost anybody in the USA could be reached by telephone (important for the result of the poll being a "random sample" of the whole population, rather than a biased one).

Nowadays, there's a different problem. As near as I can make out, the problem was first widely noted in the 1970's, that the technological ability to cheaply combine different sources of data about identified individuals would soon allow mechanized invasion of privacy on an industrial scale, and confidentiality of that information (i.e., the ability of the subject to control the uses to which the information is put) would simply cease to exist. The 1970's "soon" is pretty much today.

How much people are aware of this is debatable. Facebook is widely used, for instance, with relatively few users even bothering to cover themselves with the scanty digital figleaves the site kindof offers.

From a statistical point of view, however, it isn't so much how many people take active precuations to contain the dissemination of personal information, but rather whether the people who do that are "the same kind of people" as people who let their junk flop in whatever breeze comes along.

What are the odds of that?

For example, Donald Trump is reputed to "underpoll" consistently. That is, people who like him seem, compared with holders of more upmarket preferences, to be less likely to answer their phones to a pollster, and if they do, less likely to disclose their admiration for Trump to a stranger who knows where they live. If I were a Trumpster (speaking of what are the odds?), I'd be discreet about it.

I think organized-Christian views may be similar to Trump views, in the sense of being widely seen as "downmarket." The cool kids curse Christ. I also think the volume of pushback for advocating "socially conservative" views (for example, if you should use any term except intersex for certain sexual stances, then you will get lip about it) and awareness of consequences of leakage of personal information in general have increased over the last decade, the comparison period of the current poll. (If intersex was even a word in 2009, I somehow missed it).

I think a grain of salt is justified. Just my opinion.

 

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Imaginarynumber1
1 minute ago, eight bits said:

Tricky business, statistics. It's hard for any analysis to be better than the data being analyzed.

Pew is much admired in the trade for doing the best they can with subjects that are inherently difficult to measure. The intuition is that having some numbers to work with is better than wild ess guesses. Probly so. But how precise the estimates are is reasonably in doubt.

American phone-based opinion surveys began in disgrace ( https://www.math.upenn.edu/~deturck/m170/wk4/lecture/case1.html  ), then arguably got better for a while. The original problem was that having a phone at home was a luxury. American utility policy favored universal access, however, and after WW II there was a "golden age" when almost anybody in the USA could be reached by telephone (important for the result of the poll being a "random sample" of the whole population, rather than a biased one).

Nowadays, there's a different problem. As near as I can make out, the problem was first widely noted in the 1970's, that the technological ability to cheaply combine different sources of data about identified individuals would soon allow mechanized invasion of privacy on an industrial scale, and confidentiality of that information (i.e., the ability of the subject to control the uses to which the information is put) would simply cease to exist. The 1970's "soon" is pretty much today.

How much people are aware of this is debatable. Facebook is widely used, for instance, with relatively few users even bothering to cover themselves with the scanty digital figleaves the site kindof offers.

From a statistical point of view, however, it isn't so much how many people take active precuations to contain the dissemination of personal information, but rather whether the people who do that are "the same kind of people" as people who let their junk flop in whatever breeze comes along.

What are the odds of that?

For example, Donald Trump is reputed to "underpoll" consistently. That is, people who like him seem, compared with holders of more upmarket preferences, to be less likely to answer their phones to a pollster, and if they do, less likely to disclose their admiration for Trump to a stranger who knows where they live. If I were a Trumpster (speaking of what are the odds?), I'd be discreet about it.

I think organized-Christian views may be similar to Trump views, in the sense of being widely seen as "downmarket." The cool kids curse Christ. I also think the volume of pushback for advocating "socially conservative" views (for example, if you should use any term except intersex for certain sexual stances, then you will get lip about it) and awareness of consequences of leakage of personal information in general have increased over the last decade, the comparison period of the current poll. (If intersex was even a word in 2009, I somehow missed it).

I think a grain of salt is justified. Just my opinion.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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third_eye

Jesus is worried about the private personal jets not getting buyers... 

~

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XenoFish
17 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Jesus is worried about the private personal jets not getting buyers... 

~

All those mega church pastors losing income. Gotta make this yacht payments.

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openozy
2 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

I don't see the correlation between giving up religious beliefs and anarchy. Could you elaborate?

I meant people are getting wiser and not following anything blindly.With the ever increasing population all going there own way instead of being guided,who knows the outcome.I personally have never needed the support or guidance of a religion but a lot do to keep them under some control.

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
7 hours ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Of course the same goes for you.

I know. I was just hoping he would be man enough to tell me so himself. 

7 hours ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

And Then is a zealot who advocates for violence against and actively wishes for the death, pain, and suffering of those that not only do not believe the same as him religiously, but also politically. 

And then is a christian, but it seems to me the only part of christianity he really likes is Revelation. He eagerly awaits the end times, but he will be allright because he will get raptured before it gets bad. It's just wicked people like you, Jodie.Lynne and me who gets to suffer. :no:

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy

 

4 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Aww, you say the sweetest things! And amply demonstrate the hypocrisy of your beliefs.

But it's OK for you to be a vile, hateful and judgmental little snot, because you are only a flawed little human, and your god forgives you, yeah?

Being vile, hateful and judgemental is exactly the kind of thing that good old Yahweh likes isn't it ? If Yahwehs standards applies when and then is judged he will be allright, but if it's Jesus he will be in trouble. :innocent:

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