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Aaron2016

How Do You Stop 9/11 from Happening?

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
20 minutes ago, and then said:

Attend... the topic was what could have been done to PREVENT 9-11

Thats why I actually came up with a real answer, better coorperation between intelligence agencies. You one the other hand used it to blame someone who was in no way involved in 9/11.

So maybe it isn't me should attend ?

22 minutes ago, and then said:

For a bright guy you certainly are tiresome at times.  Read the history of the time and get a clue.  It isn't as though Bin Laden and his crimes were unknown before 9-11.  But peddle your bull**** if you like.  Do you REALLY imagine everyone else here can't see what you do, Chucky?

Sure Bin Ladens crimes were known at the times. So maybe you should ask yourself what did the sitting president do to prevent 9/11 ?

George Walker Bush was president, not Barack Obama. I'm not in any way saying that he was responsible but atleast he was in a position to potentially do something, unlike a person who wouldn't be president for another 7 years. 

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Gromdor
11 hours ago, and then said:

Obama could literally have killed or captured Bin Laden and he refused to do so.  Hindsight is always 20-20 but without him the likelihood of that attack going forward would have been greatly reduced or exposed to an intervention on our part.  I believe the only reason we weren't hit during Obama's terms is due to his RANK COWARDICE before our enemies.  

 

36 minutes ago, and then said:

For a bright guy you certainly are tiresome at times.  Read the history of the time and get a clue.  It isn't as though Bin Laden and his crimes were unknown before 9-11.  But peddle your bull**** if you like.  Do you REALLY imagine everyone else here can't see what you do, Chucky?

Did you perhaps mean Clinton or Bush?  In this world's timeline Obama did kill Bin Laden, but did it when he was president which was 2008-2016.  Well after 9-11 which was in 2001.

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and then
12 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

George Walker Bush was president, not Barack Obama. I'm not in any way saying that he was responsible but atleast he was in a position to potentially do something, unlike a person who wouldn't be president for another 7 years. 

And you and Chucky are right, of course.  I admit it.  I screwed up.  I was thinking about one Democrat thugster and named another.  They seem nearly interchangeable to me.  I was thinking about Smilin' Bill Clinton and said Obama.  The sad thing is that if a history of this time is ever accurately laid down, Obama will be seen to have caused far more damage to America than Clinton did.  At least Clinton was a run of the mill pervert and Grifter.  Obama was nothing less than a traitor.

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BrooklynGuy
1 hour ago, Timothy said:

24 hours to prevent is in the hands of the impossible. Given the factors involved. 
Presentation of a future event: Easy answer is simply better regulations regarding cockpit safety/security/entry and that the safety measures/regulations are properly enforced by flight crews.

Thanks for the Post Timothy and I agree. Unfortunately there is and has always been Evil in this world and the folks who intend to do us harm will eventually find a way to do so. As we have seen recently in the UK, Australia and other countries around the world it's impossible to prevent the actions of a lone gunman or a driver who plows into a crowd because of their intense hatred for folks who don't think like them. I think the best hope we have is to learn from past mistakes and incorporate measures like you mentioned here to minimize the likelihood of future attacks. I think 9/11 is similar to Hitler's efforts in Nazi Germany in this way. Some folks made the argument that it was better to appease and contain Hitler than go to war with him and that imo was a mistake that only served to allow him to continue his crusade for an all white race and to take over the world. In almost every case except this one there may be an alternative solution to solving problems with dialog instead of using violence. However you cannot use reason to reason with unreasonable people whose only aim is to cause you harm. The long term solution here is to put these particular types of folks down before they can hurt anyone else imo. 

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
18 minutes ago, and then said:

And you and Chucky are right, of course.  I admit it.  I screwed up.  I was thinking about one Democrat thugster and named another.  They seem nearly interchangeable to me.  I was thinking about Smilin' Bill Clinton and said Obama.  The sad thing is that if a history of this time is ever accurately laid down, Obama will be seen to have caused far more damage to America than Clinton did.  At least Clinton was a run of the mill pervert and Grifter.  Obama was nothing less than a traitor.

Its nice that you can admit to making a mistake. It still doesn't change the fact that neither Obama, nor Clinton, was in a position to do anything on 9/11, which is the whole premise of the thread. 

Edited by Noteverythingisaconspiracy
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joc
4 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

You do know what critical thinking skills are, don't you? And that whole learning from the past thing we call history.

Oh yeah...I do!  Which is exactly what I am employing when I say...it's a stupid question.

The only person who could have done something to stop Osama...at the time...was Bill Clinton.  He has even said he could have killed Osama in 1998...but even that is a moot point because...how could he have known?  He didn't know.  That's what is important.  No one knew.  Short of @Rlyehanswer....there is nothing else even worth saying about the original question other than that it was a stupid one.

But I will anyway...It's a stupid question because it involves an impossible time line.  There are definite things that could have been done ...like allowing the different intelligence agencies to talk directly with each other and share information.  And we have done that!  And a whole lot more.

The question asked by the professor in the OPs class was a stupid question.  It has nothing to do with critical thinking skills or history.  The really important question has already been asked...and answered...What can we do to prevent another 9/11 from happening?   Now ...THAT...is a question that involves critical thinking skills.

 

 

 

 

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joc
1 hour ago, and then said:

And you and Chucky are right, of course.  I admit it.  I screwed up.  I was thinking about one Democrat thugster and named another.  They seem nearly interchangeable to me.  I was thinking about Smilin' Bill Clinton and said Obama.  The sad thing is that if a history of this time is ever accurately laid down, Obama will be seen to have caused far more damage to America than Clinton did.  At least Clinton was a run of the mill pervert and Grifter.  Obama was nothing less than a traitor.

What has always amazed me...and honestly, frightened me a little (okay...a lot)...is how so close to 9/11, Americans would elect a President named Obama.  Especially one that had absolutely no experience in anything other than snorting cocaine and community organizing.

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and then
47 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Its nice that you can admit to making a mistake. It still doesn't change the fact that neither Obama, nor Clinton, was in a position to do anything on 9/11, which is the whole premise of the thread. 

Not so.  Clinton refused to kill or capture him long before he struck us and the intel was there about his intentions and capabilities.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/02/16/bill-clinton-and-the-missed-opportunities-to-kill-osama-bin-laden/ 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bill-clinton-i-could-have-killed-osama-bin-laden/

https://www.foxnews.com/story/did-clinton-drop-the-ball-on-bin-laden

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psyche101
37 minutes ago, joc said:

Oh yeah...I do!  Which is exactly what I am employing when I say...it's a stupid question.

The only person who could have done something to stop Osama...at the time...was Bill Clinton.  He has even said he could have killed Osama in 1998...but even that is a moot point because...how could he have known?  He didn't know.  That's what is important.  No one knew.  Short of @Rlyehanswer....there is nothing else even worth saying about the original question other than that it was a stupid one.

But I will anyway...It's a stupid question because it involves an impossible time line.  There are definite things that could have been done ...like allowing the different intelligence agencies to talk directly with each other and share information.  And we have done that!  And a whole lot more.

The question asked by the professor in the OPs class was a stupid question.  It has nothing to do with critical thinking skills or history.  The really important question has already been asked...and answered...What can we do to prevent another 9/11 from happening?   Now ...THAT...is a question that involves critical thinking skills.

 

 

 

 

Have you seen this by any chance? 

I'll warn up front, it's an hour and a half, but I found it thought provoking and in line with the OPs question. 

https://www.pbs.org/video/frontline-the-man-who-knew/

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psyche101
1 hour ago, and then said:

And you and Chucky are right, of course.  I admit it.  I screwed up.  I was thinking about one Democrat thugster and named another.  They seem nearly interchangeable to me.  I was thinking about Smilin' Bill Clinton and said Obama.  The sad thing is that if a history of this time is ever accurately laid down, Obama will be seen to have caused far more damage to America than Clinton did.  At least Clinton was a run of the mill pervert and Grifter.  Obama was nothing less than a traitor.

I think Barbara Bodine was rather instrumental in the process myself 

Mainly she just didn't like O'Neil. That might have changed a lot from what I saw in the program at the link I left. 

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Aaron2016

I think there has been some confusion regarding the question.  I meant to ask - What could 'you personally' have done to stop 9/11 from occurring with 24 hours notice.  This gives us an insight into human behavior and exactly how far we are willing to go to save others, especially if it means risking jail, changing history for better or worse, or even sacrificing our own lives to save others. e.g.

 

What could you do?

- Phone the authorities (but how do you convince them and what if they arrest you afterwards?)

- Crash your car into the hijackers car as they approach the airport which forces them to miss the flight and scrub the plan?

- Speak to the hijackers and convince them to abandon their idea?

- Spend 24 hours hunting down all of the hijackers and subdue them before they reach the airports?

- Be on the first plane and try to alert the crew before the hijacking takes place, and get the pilots to alert the other targeted planes before they are hijacked?

- Cause a disturbance at the airport (pull the fire alarm or damage the radar) and make the hijackers to panic and flee?

- Cause a disturbance at the WTC and evacuate the towers?

- Intercept and record the private conversations of the hijackers on September 10th and give the tape to the authorities?

- Make a failed effort to carry out the attacks yourself and force the hijackers to panic and scrub their plan?

 

 

Edited by Aaron2016

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joc
1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

Have you seen this by any chance? 

I'll warn up front, it's an hour and a half, but I found it thought provoking and in line with the OPs question. 

https://www.pbs.org/video/frontline-the-man-who-knew/

Never heard of John O'neill...but I'll check it out.  i still maintain however that the question...as it was worded...was stupid.  Not calling the OP any names btw...only the professor of that class!

Maybe the question should have been...if you were John O'neill...what would or could you have done....?

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skliss

Clinton had several chances to take Bin Laden but didnt. I think Sudan offered him up and was refused. Also they could have drone striked him but Clinton said no. That being said, do we think it would have stopped al qaeda altogether? I think it would have certainly set them back enormously. Another hydra-head would have taken over eventually. We might not have had 9/11 but it's possible we would have had a smaller event. 9/11 did teach us there was work to be done and we were more vulnerable than we thought.  It shaped new security initiatives worldwide.

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Dark_Grey
2 hours ago, Aaron2016 said:

I think there has been some confusion regarding the question.  I meant to ask - What could 'you personally' have done to stop 9/11 from occurring with 24 hours notice.  This gives us an insight into human behavior and exactly how far we are willing to go to save others, especially if it means risking jail, changing history for better or worse, or even sacrificing our own lives to save others. e.g.

Literally nothing. There is nothing you, as an individual, could have done to stop it. It was the most anticipated event for Neo-Cons since "9/11 v1.0" AKA the "Oklahoma bombing". 

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Farmer77
18 hours ago, Aaron2016 said:

We discussed in class a range of hypothetical scenarios that could have stopped the 9/11 terrorist attacks from happening, and the butterfly effect which led to the rapid increase of strategic strength, homeland security, and the military interventions seen in Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan.  The question was - if you could rewind history back to September 10th 2001 and were given 24 hours to prevent 9/11 what would you do, and what would be the probability that you would succeed, and would our world (preferably the middle-east) look very different today?

 

 

Given those parameters the simplest way to stop it would be an emergency order to all airports and an emergency FAA order to all airlines to immediately ban all box knives on aircraft. 

Edited by Farmer77
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Aaron2016
2 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Given those parameters the simplest way to stop it would be an emergency order to all airports and an emergency FAA order to all airlines to immediately ban all box knives on aircraft. 

Problem is, there are many alternatives to using box cutters e.g. using a long removable needle hidden inside the leg of a pair of glasses, or hidden inside the extendable aerial of a pocket radio.  Where there's a dark will, there's a dark way.  Hypothetically speaking, what if the hijackers had alternative secondary means to carry out their hijackings which were not used (but ready to be used if needed) and the evidence was destroyed in the plane crashes?  Perhaps banning box knives would not be sufficient to stop the attacks.  Airport security (even today) sadly does not detect knives and sharp objects e.g. I went on vacation this summer with shaving blades and a sharp pair of scissors in my hand luggage and nobody detected it.  18 years of security changes have sadly not filtered out all possible dangers.  Imagine how easy it was 18 years ago on September 11th 2001.

 

 

Edited by Aaron2016

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, Aaron2016 said:

Problem is, there are many alternatives to using box cutters e.g. using a long removable needle hidden inside the leg of a pair of glasses, or hidden inside the extendable aerial of a pocket radio.  Where there's a dark will, there's a dark way.  Hypothetically speaking, what if the hijackers had alternative secondary means to carry out their hijackings which were not used (but ready to be used if needed) and the evidence was destroyed in the plane crashes?  Perhaps banning box knives would not be sufficient to stop the attacks.  Airport security (even today) sadly does not detect knives and sharp objects e.g. I went on vacation this summer with shaving blades and a sharp pair of scissors in my hand luggage and nobody detected it.  18 years of security changes have sadly not filtered out all possible dangerous.  Must have been much easier 18 years ago on September 10th 2001.

 

 

Well I should have said ban all sharp objects like they do now.

You're right of course but I'd bet that if you made that ban within 12 hours of their flights chances are the guys who pulled it off would have had to reschedule for another day while figuring out their plan b.  Therefore preventing 9/11 from happening:lol:

 

 

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skliss
15 minutes ago, Aaron2016 said:

Problem is, there are many alternatives to using box cutters e.g. using a long removable needle hidden inside the leg of a pair of glasses, or hidden inside the extendable aerial of a pocket radio.  Where there's a dark will, there's a dark way.  Hypothetically speaking, what if the hijackers had alternative secondary means to carry out their hijackings which were not used (but ready to be used if needed) and the evidence was destroyed in the plane crashes?  Perhaps banning box knives would not be sufficient to stop the attacks.  Airport security (even today) sadly does not detect knives and sharp objects e.g. I went on vacation this summer with shaving blades and a sharp pair of scissors in my hand luggage and nobody detected it.  18 years of security changes have sadly not filtered out all possible dangers.  Imagine how easy it was 18 years ago on September 10th 2001.

 

 

In Sept hubby and I flew 1st class to San Diego. He remarked on the plane how funny it was that we went thru so much security only to have them hand us real silverware and ceramic coffee mugs/dishes.  

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Dark_Grey

"If I was on that plane with my kids, it wouldn’t have went down like it did. There would have been a lot of blood in that first-class cabin and then me saying, ‘OK, we’re going to land somewhere safely, don’t worry.’"

- Mark "Marky Mark" Wahlberg

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RabidMongoose
23 hours ago, Aaron2016 said:

We discussed in class a range of hypothetical scenarios that could have stopped the 9/11 terrorist attacks from happening, and the butterfly effect which led to the rapid increase of strategic strength, homeland security, and the military interventions seen in Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan.  The question was - if you could rewind history back to September 10th 2001 and were given 24 hours to prevent 9/11 what would you do, and what would be the probability that you would succeed, and would our world (preferably the middle-east) look very different today?

Look out for suspicious share trading in defence industries two weeks before it happens by the President and his family.

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Aaron2016
1 hour ago, RabidMongoose said:

Look out for suspicious share trading in defence industries two weeks before it happens by the President and his family.

The US market was on a continuous downward trend before 9/11.

Bad events have a profitable effect.

 

market.png

 

 

 

Looks similar to the market right after Pearl Harbor.  I notice the market was on a similar downward trend before that attack as well.  Wonder if wars are made for moral reasons or for financial reasons? 

 

ww2.png

 

 

Edited by Aaron2016

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Tatetopa
On 11/11/2019 at 3:44 PM, and then said:

Obama could literally have killed or captured Bin Laden and he refused to do so. 

Yep, that was after 9/11.  9/11 happened under President Bush.  But I think he finally got around to it.  Maybe he wasn't a coward, his bone spurs just slowed him up.

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Tatetopa
19 hours ago, joc said:

But I will anyway...It's a stupid question because it involves an impossible time line.  There are definite things that could have been done ...like allowing the different intelligence agencies to talk directly with each other and share information.  And we have done that!  And a whole lot more.

The question asked by the professor in the OPs class was a stupid question.  It has nothing to do with critical thinking skills or history.  The really important question has already been asked...and answered...What can we do to prevent another 9/11 from happening?   Now ...THAT...is a question that involves critical thinking skills.

It rather seems like these two questions are related and you gave one good answer.  Let intelligence agencies talk with each other. That is what we could have done and what we did to reduce the possibility of another attack.  We did other things too.

Flight safety procedures was another good suggestion.  We had them but we were not as stringent as we can be now.

We could have believed the intel and done something.  At that point in time we could not conceive of anything like 9/11. in the US. That is one advantage we have now.  It DID happen and could happen again unless we are super vigilant.  It had happened in Europe      ( the Olympics)and they  and Israel were already vigilant.

We funneled billions of dollars into bin Laden when he was fighting the Russians. Maybe a tip there. The enemy of my enemy does not remain my friend.  Don't get involved in stuff like that.

We had bases in Saudi Arabia which President Bush promised to draw down after the Iraq war and did not in a timely manner.  Osama declared war on the US.  Saudi Arabia did nothing about their citizen Osama bin Laden.  There should have been a tip there about how much we can ever depend on Saudi Arabia.

I traveled to Europe and Asia on business prior to 9/11.. Almost every airport I went through had a TSA like search.  When I got to China, even train stations used X-ray on luggage..

Athens airport had pools of water near the inspection station to throw a suspect bag into.  In Singapore, they even took up my fingernail scissors from my shaving kit.  That was in 1985.

At least we take threats more seriously now.  I hope it doesn't happen on that scale ever again. 

 

 

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RabidMongoose
12 hours ago, Aaron2016 said:

The US market was on a continuous downward trend before 9/11.

Bad events have a profitable effect.

 

market.png

 

 

 

Looks similar to the market right after Pearl Harbor.  I notice the market was on a similar downward trend before that attack as well.  Wonder if wars are made for moral reasons or for financial reasons? 

 

ww2.png

 

 

What are you on about? Who cares what the overall stock exchange was doing.

Bush, and his family, purchased millions of shares in the US defence industry 2 weeks before 9/11. And rather strangely, the US armed forces failed to react until too late during 9/11 as they were rather conveniently doing a nationwide training exercise on that day. Then there were reports (someone caught on video) of explosion sounds at the World Trade Centre after the planes had hit and the buildings come down.

And there are way too many other odd things too.

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BrooklynGuy
On 11/11/2019 at 6:03 PM, Aaron2016 said:

We discussed in class a range of hypothetical scenarios that could have stopped the 9/11 terrorist attacks from happening, and the butterfly effect which led to the rapid increase of strategic strength, homeland security, and the military interventions seen in Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan.  The question was - if you could rewind history back to September 10th 2001 and were given 24 hours to prevent 9/11 what would you do, and what would be the probability that you would succeed, and would our world (preferably the middle-east) look very different today?

 

 

Don't take it personal Aaron every thread on this great site turns into a discussion about who is right who is wrong when it comes to Politics. Thanks again for the great question :tu:

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