Trump ignores the Pentagon

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, and then said:

I have some difficulty in grasping how anyone on the Left could imagine a positive outcome if he were basically lynched politically.  There would be repercussions and they wouldn't be mild or transient, I'm afraid.

Well I don't know about anybody else on the Left but I do not suspect any positive outcome to that.  I don't know about the lynching part if it follows due legal procedure.  However it wold likely be disastrous.

[Unusual Tournament]

1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

Intriguing.... 

 

Soooo... Trump goes against the "Military-Industrial" complex. And for this, we criticism him ? The Left-Wing are actually CRITICISING somebody who stands up against the Pentagon ? 

Yeez... I'm not an American, but I worry about the direction of some elements of the Trump opposition. 

If you must defend Trump then at least debunk with quotes and links. Otherwise this trivialisation of brutal crimes because it upsets the Trump myth is not an argument.

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 hours ago, and then said:

What crimes, precisely?  They killed combatants under less than perfectly defined situations.  One guy was a bomb maker.  Cry about big bad Trump all you want but don't try to act like these men were homicidal maniacs.  In case you hadn't been briefed, the main mission of the military is to break things and KILL people.  To my knowledge there has only been one true war crime by an American soldier and he was sentenced to life in prison.  He slaughtered a family in Afghanistan a few years back.  I'd have been okay with hanging or shooting him.

So in your opinion it is ok to murder a prisoner of war while in custody, just because you want to use your knife that day? This is  a War crime according to the Geneva convention. Above you say to your knowledge that there was only one true war crime committed by an American soldier, well that clearly shows you have little knowledge on the subject. 

Because murdering prisoners while in custody is a true war according to US Law.

[Hankenhunter]

7 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

So in your opinion it is ok to murder a prisoner of war while in custody, just because you want to use your knife that day? This is  a War crime according to the Geneva convention. Above you say to your knowledge that there was only one true war crime committed by an American soldier, well that clearly shows you have little knowledge on the subject. 

Because murdering prisoners while in custody is a true war according to US Law.

This is the guy they're standing up for.

He's making excuses for the coming recession.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Hankenhunter

[Unusual Tournament]

6 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

This is the guy they're standing up for.

He's making excuses for the coming recession.

...and taking credit for its rise. If he didn't pick a fight with China i can only imagine where the stock market would have been today.  

[Hankenhunter]

Seeing as Gwyn has been so kind as to provide back ground Gallagher, here is some back ground on the other soldier, Clint Lorance.

https://www.fark.com/goto/10622719/taskandpurpose.com/think-lt-clint-lorance-murderer%3Futm_source%3Dfark%26utm_medium%3Dwebsite%26utm_

Not one soldier stood for him at his Court Martial.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Hankenhunter

[Tatetopa]

2 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Soooo... Trump goes against the "Military-Industrial" complex. And for this, we criticism him ?

Noooo.  He did not go against the industrial half of that complex.  He even touted how many weapons we are going to sell to Saudi Arabia. Clean beautiful coal is still his friend even after Murray Energy files for bankruptcy.

He did not go against the military by saying we are spending way too much on defense.  In fact he increased their budget.  He rather seems to like telling people that we have the biggest button.  

Countermanding convictions for actions in the field because one thinks we should go back to the good old days when we did kill or torture prisoners is hardly opposing the perpetual wars and the strangle hold defense industries have on our economy.

In this case the Pentagon wanted to maintain the military code of justice that forbids torture and murder of enemy combatant prisoners.  We have these silly principles; many officers  think sticking to them is what separates us from barbarians.

No this one takes a bully's joy in death and torture from a position of power. You can go back and listen to his own speeches and see that.  He told cops they didn't need to be too gentle or protect a  suspect.  He thought it would be cool if they slammed peoples heads into the door frame. He relished inventing details of Baghdadi whining and crying like a baby  as he ran down a dead end tunnel to his death.

I am an American.  I don't always agree with our military policy, but I definitely do not want police and soldiers acting like vigilantes or mercenaries because they can get away with it

Roof, when one  decides to Cry Havoc and let slip the dogs of war one may find himself being bitten.  Didn't work out too well in the end for Marc Anthony.

And by the way you might listen to or read a Mattis speech or two.  I remember one from Iraq when he told the enemy he did not want to kill them, he would rather negotiate with them.  But if it came to it he was perfectly capable of doing so.  No doubt he could.

If I want peace and security, I trust a man who has seen and experienced war from the field and hates it more than one who relishes it from the sidelines.

 

 

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

3 hours ago, RAyMO said:

I doubt that's what they actually think - had Obama done it (which would have been is right as CIC) they would have been up in arms, had Hilary won and done it they would be up in arms - But Trump, to them can do no wrong. Which is very worrying when its as plain as day he is well out of his depth - as his twit the other day against the ambassador, as the ambassador was giving evidence proves.

I would just let their comments go, all they are doing is trying to bait people into an Argument. There is really no other reason for the foolish comments being posted by some forum members. Why the President did this is just bait and switch, if he feels comfortable with releasing murders on the streets, let it be on his head.

[Hankenhunter]

[Robotic Jew]

The fact that anyone can defend this shows how far down the drain trump has pulled his supporters/worshippers. Sad times indeed.

[Farmer77]

3 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

Seeing as Gwyn has been so kind as to provide back ground Gallagher, here is some back ground on the other soldier, Clint Lorance.

https://www.fark.com/goto/10622719/taskandpurpose.com/think-lt-clint-lorance-murderer%3Futm_source%3Dfark%26utm_medium%3Dwebsite%26utm_

Not one soldier stood for him at his Court Martial.

Thanks for the share. The sheer glee Trump has embracing evil is truly becoming undeniable.

From your link:

Quote

  When people like West and Sean Hannity, who has also been one of Lorance's most vociferous supporters, declare that Lorance is innocent, they are also leveling an insidious accusation at the nine American soldiers whose testimonies helped put him behind bars. To call Lorance a hero is either to say that those nine men conspired to ruin him, or that a bunch of people who weren't on the ground that day are better equipped to decipher what happened than those who actually lived it. I simply cannot accept that. Because if anyone knows the “tactics and actions of the enemy" that Lorance claims he was trying to protect his subordinates from, it's them. And if anyone knows the difference between a clean kill and cold-blooded murder, it's them. I, for one, have faith in our grunts. I will not sign the petition.

He has successfully (further) divided the population, the government and now is working on the military.

[Gwynbleidd]

Oh dear, I haven't watched this but it seems Gallagher went on Fox.  I can't bring myself to watch him so I'll wait till one of you do it for me please and tell me what this oxygen bandit says.  I'm just disgusted that this fellow is getting airtime after what he did.  

 

[Hankenhunter]

From what I've been reading, this may have been revenge by trump, Trump approached the pentagon about digging a deep ditch along the "wall". The Pentagon didn't think to much of the idea and told him so. I will try to post some links.

[Hankenhunter]

2 minutes ago, Gwynbleidd said:

Oh dear, I haven't watched this but it seems Gallagher went on Fox.  I can't bring myself to watch him so I'll wait till one of you do it for me please and tell me what this oxygen bandit says.  I'm just disgusted that this fellow is getting airtime after what he did.  

 

Nope, not giving my time to a convicted war criminals appeals for understanding. Sorry Gwynn. He deserves to be shunned and shunned is what he'll get by his own comrades. His career is over, regardless of trump.

[Hankenhunter]

Ah here it is.

https://www.cnn.com › politics › esp...
Web results
Trump asked the Pentagon to explore trench on the border, Pentagon advised against it - CNNPolitics - CNN.com

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/14/politics/esper-border-trench-estimate/index.html&ved=2ahUKEwiv283vt_LlAhXNHzQIHZ0HAqEQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3JxunNxK8EjLc_EoIiinYH

This seem to be the only reason I can find for these pardons.

[DarkHunter]

Just to throw it out there Eddie Gallagher was acquitted of all but one of the charges brought against him and the one that he wasnt acquitted on and found guilty of was taking a picture with a corpse which is what caused his demotion.

Whether you believe the court made the right decision or not he wasnt convicted of anything that heinously bad and calling him a war criminal is a bit of a stretch.

[Hankenhunter]

5 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Just to throw it out there Eddie Gallagher was acquitted of all but one of the charges brought against him and the one that he wasnt acquitted on and found guilty of was taking a picture with a corpse which is what caused his demotion.

Whether you believe the court made the right decision or not he wasnt convicted of anything that heinously bad and calling him a war criminal is a bit of a stretch.

Were the other charges dropped because of a plea deal? Please post your link. I can understand him pardoning sheriff Joe as birds of a feather sort of thing but this makes no sense if not for revenge against the Pentagon.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Hankenhunter

[Golden Duck]

On 11/16/2019 at 4:53 PM, Gwynbleidd said:

I read about this a while back and I was angered when I first found out about what this guy Gallagher did.  I was so upset by this in the beginning, I remember reading the entire thing to my Husband about how angry I was at Trump getting involved with this.  This is so wrong on so many levels I can't even begin to go there. 

Someone help me to understand why you would intervene on behalf of this fellow Gallagher?  

Would the excuse be because this guy was a veteran?  I don't give a rat's ass if this guy was a veteran or not.  He killed a child during wartime.  Is this not enough?

This story sounds strangely familiar...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_the_First_(film)

Edited November 18, 2019 by Golden Duck

[Golden Duck]

On 11/16/2019 at 5:30 PM, and then said:

Neither you nor anyone else on this site has sufficient information about this situation to do anything but give an opinion.

Man, I thought these discussion forums carried more weight!

[+and-then]

On 11/16/2019 at 4:13 PM, Captain Risky said:

You should direct you're retort to the U.S. military,

You really can't seem to grasp the whole, chain of command concept, can you?  The military serve the nation and answer to the Commander in Chief.  He made a decision and does not answer to his staff or the generals.  You seem to think the judgment of military officers couldn't possibly be tainted by political leanings.  They actually make mistakes and base decisions on biases just like anyone else.  Face it... your attack failed...AGAIN...

[Gwynbleidd]

58 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Just to throw it out there Eddie Gallagher was acquitted of all but one of the charges brought against him and the one that he wasnt acquitted on and found guilty of was taking a picture with a corpse which is what caused his demotion.

See that's what caught my attention with this case when I first read about it.  I was incredibly surprised that someone could get away with stabbing a child when the child in question was being attended to, by a medic.  Admittedly, the child was a captive, but does that make it right to stab a captive to death?  It just doesn't sit right with me no matter which way I've tried to look at this case.  

I think that's why I was so surprised and disappointed that Trump has had anything to do with this.  I felt that the Military should've just gone along and carried out their own justice as they saw fit, as per usual.  

My worry is, now that this has happened, will it affect rebellious types in the Military in the future thinking they're allowed to get away with similar crimes during war time. Let's face it, awful things happen in war and I thought we'd moved forward enough to ensure we kept a good eye on these things to stop them from repeating. 

As Gallagher's peers were quoted as saying, he ended up acting like ISIS does, he became the monster himself.  I don't know, I just think it's important to recognise that and I'm not even thinking politics to do with this fellow.  I'm thinking he did an awful thing and in my opinion he should be punished accordingly without outside interference.   

Edited November 18, 2019 by Gwynbleidd

[Phaeton80]

Trump isnt the problem. Its the fanatic fanbase, regarding him as 'their man', 'their champion'.. believing the drain the swamp narrative put forth, which is the real issue here.

These sort of people will rationalise any and everything right up until their nation, and everything it stands for, dissolves completely. I just hope the damage to the rest of the world isnt irrevocable at that point. The only real chance of real change is an internal bottom up revolution, like in the days of the declaration of independence. Sadly, Americans today couldnt tie the shoes of the Americans back in those days.

From dangerous independent intelligent Free Men, to a dummed down bunch of lethargic consumers. You are, in fact, the Founding Fathers worst nightmare, im quite sure.

 

 

[+and-then]

23 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

So in your opinion it is ok to murder a prisoner of war while in custody, just because you want to use your knife that day?

I believe that we train men to kill people who have been judged to be enemies of our nation.  When they do what they were trained to do we owe them more than to then try to exact some form of "justice" against them.  I happen to disbelieve that a U.S. soldier did what you said and that it is more likely that it's just part of a media campaign.  BUT... if the soldier went overboard and killed an unarmed combatant that he KNEW had killed Americans I wouldn't demand his life for that.  People who lose sight of what war is about and who want to hammer better men than themselves for doing outrageous things in an environment that calls for outrageous acts do not impress me just because they wore the uniform.  The Pentagon is filled with political shills and they disgust me, too.

[DarkHunter]

1 hour ago, Hankenhunter said:

Were the other charges dropped because of a plea deal? Please post your link. I can understand him pardoning sheriff Joe as birds of a feather sort of thing but this makes no sense if not for revenge against the Pentagon.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/02/us/navy-seal-trial-verdict.html

I dont know why all the charges were dropped but I remember killing a prisoner was dropped cause a medic admitted to doing it.

[+and-then]

7 minutes ago, Gwynbleidd said:

Admittedly, the child was a captive, but does that make it right to stab a captive to death?

So, it does not matter that a court martial found him innocent of all charges other than posing for a photo with a corpse?  How do you simply ignore that due process and assume his guilt despite that clear finding?