Trump ignores the Pentagon

[aztek]

we kill thousands of kids, as collateral damage, some are playing on the roads and ran over by us convoys that never stop for anyone, so why is this kid  special?

“Most children killed and injured directly by U.S. forces and their allies were killed the same way as their parents: they died when bombs fell; when they were caught in ‘cross-fire’; shot in night raids; shot at check-points and run over by U.S. convoys who speed through the streets and roads.  The roadside deaths are often not recorded unless the U.S. gives some compensation to the families.”

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/where-is-outcry-over-children-killed-by-u-s-led-forces/

Edited November 18, 2019 by aztek

[KingTomis]

Quote

On July 2, a military panel of his peers at Gallagher’s San Diego court-martial trial cleared him on premeditated murder, obstruction of justice and all but one other charge tied to a 2017 deployment with Alpha Platoon, SEAL Team 7, to Iraq.

The trial spotlighted both the Navy’s prosecutors and the Naval Criminal Investigative Service special agents who probed the war crimes allegations.

Shortly before his court-martial trial kicked off, Navy judge Capt. Aaron Rugh sanctioned the prosecution team for violating the defendant’s constitutional rights.

Part of Rugh’s punishment included booting Cmdr. Christopher Czaplak, the lead prosecutor, for his role in a warrantless surveillance program cooked up with Naval Criminal Investigative Service agents to track emails sent by defense attorneys and Navy Times.

And the spying wasn’t the only allegation of prosecutorial and police misconduct dogging the case.

They were accused of manipulating witness statements to NCIS agents; using immunity grants and a bogus “target letter” in a crude attempt to keep pro-Gallagher witnesses from testifying; illegally leaking documents to the media to taint the military jury pool; and then trying to cover it all up when they got caught.

VCNO hints reforms looming for Navy’s JAG Corps

In Gallagher's trial there was undue command influence, JAG and NCIS misconduct.  The trial was such a shitshow it caused a push for reform among the Navy's JAG corps. Coming from people that know him there was an issue with him upholding deteriorating standards in his fellow SEAL's which caused resentment and false accusations but that's just hearsay.

It's also important to note that on the charge he was found guilty of, posing for a photo with a dead combatant's body, most of his platoon were also photographed with the body and were threatened and then granted immunity for their testimonies.

This also didn't come out of no-wear as it's not the first time Trump has acted or commented on Gallagher's case.

Navy revokes awards given to prosecutors in Navy SEAL court-martial

Quote

The move coincided with tweets from President Donald Trump repeating his support for Special Operations Chief Edward Gallagher and directing Spencer to rescind awards that were "ridiculously given" to prosecutors who, according to Trump, "lost the case" against Gallagher.  

It marked the third time the president has publicly commented directly on the court-martial of the combat veteran, who was accused of committing various war crimes while deployed in Iraq in 2017.

A total of 10 military awards - seven Navy Achievement Medals and three letters of commendation - recently given to military prosecutors for their work on the Gallagher case were revoked, Navy officials told Reuters. Those officials said they did not know if Spencer acted on Trump's orders or took action before the president's tweets.

A military jury in San Diego acquitted Gallagher, a decorated platoon leader, of charges that he murdered a captured Islamic State fighter by stabbing the wounded prisoner in the neck.

Gallagher also was found not guilty of attempted murder charges stemming from the wounding of two unarmed civilians - a school girl and an elderly man - who were shot from a sniper's perch.

 

As for The Army guys I know one of their trials was seriously screwed up by I think the lead CID investigator being guilty of stolen valor.  That doesn't change the fact that the two Army guys are guilty of what they were accused of so I cant say I'm in support of their pardons.

[+and-then]

17 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Isnt referring to this as Trump pardoning war criminals, while technically correct in that these were crimes committed by soldiers during armed conflict, isnt the amount of outrage a bit unjustifiable

Bingo!  We have a winner.  This is just another Orange Man Bad outrage piece.  

 

[+and-then]

18 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Did the crimes occur as stated no one here will ever know for certain,

Yet you express outrage as though you DO know for sure.  This is my point, entirely, Manwon.  What I see are men who've been deployed over and over for years who have been living under crushing amounts of stress and who are being judged by others as though that stress never existed.

You want these guys burned down because a court martial found them guilty and that should be the final word.  Within the military, by the UCMJ, I think you are probably correct but there is a higher authority here and I think your issue is more with who holds that power than with the decision that was made.  JMO.

[DarkHunter]

17 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

 Lt Clint Lorance: https://taskandpurpose.com/think-lt-clint-lorance-murderer

 

It doesnt get much more war crimey than ordering men to kill a child who is clearly not a threat and then attempting to cover it up .

 

Quite a few problems with all of that.  

First is this whole ordering to kill a 12 year old.  He wasnt charged with that so bringing that up is irrelevant and really just a play to emotion as the guy was charged with 2 counts of second degree murder and obstruction of justice.  You cant call him a war criminal for something he wasnt charged with and not found guilty of doing.

Other problems I have with that article are a minor but still a bit significant.  The article suggest that the motorcycle was far away, specifically mentioning 200 meters.  My problem with that is 200 meters isnt really that far especially when dealing with a potential suicide bomber.  I couldnt find any real information on the lethal blast range of suicide vests, but I really didnt look that hard either, but claymore mines should offer a decent approximation being that it's made up of 0.68 kg of C4 and ball bearings and not exactly being a complex feat of engineering.  It has a lethal range of 100 meters with an ideal range of 50 meters.  So the guys on the motorcycle ignored orders to stop, they were in an area known for suicide bombers using motorcycle in attacks on American troops, and the lethal blast range could easily be 100 meters.

At the end of the day the Galligher was found only guilty of taking a picture with a corpse, Lorance was found guilty of ordering a platoon to fire at a motorcycle that refused to stop in an area known for suicide attacks, and the last guy whose name I cant remember off the top of my head was guilty of killing a bomb maker who was released only cause they literally didnt capture him with a weapon in his hands.  Pretending that Trump pardoned people on the same level as Hitler, Himmer, or Heinrich Mueller is insane.

[Farmer77]

10 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Other problems I have with that article are a minor but still a bit significant.  The article suggest that the motorcycle was far away, specifically mentioning 200 meters.  My problem with that is 200 meters isnt really that far especially when dealing with a potential suicide bomber.  I couldnt find any real information on the lethal blast range of suicide vests, but I really didnt look that hard either, but claymore mines should offer a decent approximation being that it's made up of 0.68 kg of C4 and ball bearings and not exactly being a complex feat of engineering.  It has a lethal range of 100 meters with an ideal range of 50 meters.  So the guys on the motorcycle ignored orders to stop, they were in an area known for suicide bombers using motorcycle in attacks on American troops, and the lethal blast range could easily be 100 meters.

So you know better than the guys there with him who didnt testify on his behalf. Gotcha.

[Golden Duck]

5 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

So you know better than the guys there with him who didnt testify on his behalf. Gotcha.

All that matters is that nobody knows better than Trump.

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 hours ago, and then said:

Yet you express outrage as though you DO know for sure.  This is my point, entirely, Manwon.  What I see are men who've been deployed over and over for years who have been living under crushing amounts of stress and who are being judged by others as though that stress never existed.

You want these guys burned down because a court martial found them guilty and that should be the final word.  Within the military, by the UCMJ, I think you are probably correct but there is a higher authority here and I think your issue is more with who holds that power than with the decision that was made.  JMO.

I don't want to see anyone burned down, and it doesn't matter they have been pardoned. Maybe they ideserved it like I said before we will never know the truth.

JIMO

Edited November 19, 2019 by Manwon Lender

[DarkHunter]

32 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

So you know better than the guys there with him who didnt testify on his behalf. Gotcha.

And only 9 guys out of 44 testified against him after being granted immunity for anything they would say during the trial.

Point is the facts are he was charged with 2 counts of second degree murder for making a bad call in a situation that a lot of other officers found themselves in and made the exact same call and had nothing happen but you are so blinded by your hatred of Trump and so desperate for validation of your hatred that any and all rationality disappears.

[Farmer77]

2 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

And only 9 guys out of 44 testified against him after being granted immunity for anything they would say during the trial.

Yet none of them out of 44 testified that what he did was right.

2 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Point is the facts are he was charged with 2 counts of second degree murder for making a bad call in a situation that a lot of other officers found themselves in and made the exact same call and had nothing happen but you are so blinded by your hatred of Trump and so desperate for validation of your hatred that any and all rationality disappears.

LOL sure. Trump great, any criticism is "hatred"   Gotcha.

Do you realize the wall ya'll have built with your various mantras?

Edited November 19, 2019 by Farmer77

[Grim Reaper 6]

5 hours ago, and then said:

Yet you express outrage as though you DO know for sure.  This is my point, entirely, Manwon.  What I see are men who've been deployed over and over for years who have been living under crushing amounts of stress and who are being judged by others as though that stress never existed.

You want these guys burned down because a court martial found them guilty and that should be the final word.  Within the military, by the UCMJ, I think you are probably correct but there is a higher authority here and I think your issue is more with who holds that power than with the decision that was made.  JMO.

I have also been deployed many times and while there is stress, crushing amounts is inaccurate. As far as being judged like stress never existed that is just your opinion. You always assume the worst in people, unless it serves your purpose. Throughout this thread my opinion changed, I did some research on each individual and it became clear that they may have been made examples of. I stated that in more than one post, but I also stated that we sitting here giving our opinions will never know the true story, and that is a fact.

Your habit of throwing in personal attacks because some one doesn't agree with your outlook on the subject is very laughable. You know no more than anyone else if they are guilty or falsely accused. I also find it laughable that you have the biggest Man Crush I have ever seen on President Trump, you always feel the need to inject your politics and your Crush into everything. I think you should write our President a letter explaining your Crush on him, I bet he will invite you to a rally. Where he will have you sit behind him, and give you sign that says Man Crush For Trump. 

Have a great night and may your dreams come true.

[Tatetopa]

On 11/17/2019 at 5:12 PM, and then said:

The fact that men like yourself feel qualified to make moral judgments against men that you don't deserve to stand in the same room with is what disgusts me. 

You might consider that it was his peers, men fighting alongside him lodged these complaints.  Maybe because they felt he was unworthy to stand among them.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

9 hours ago, aztek said:

we kill thousands of kids, as collateral damage, some are playing on the roads and ran over by us convoys that never stop for anyone, so why is this kid  special?

“Most children killed and injured directly by U.S. forces and their allies were killed the same way as their parents: they died when bombs fell; when they were caught in ‘cross-fire’; shot in night raids; shot at check-points and run over by U.S. convoys who speed through the streets and roads.  The roadside deaths are often not recorded unless the U.S. gives some compensation to the families.”

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/where-is-outcry-over-children-killed-by-u-s-led-forces/

I’d say the difference was between someone accidentally hitting a child with a car and intentionally running a child down.

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

You might consider that it was his peers, men fighting alongside him lodged these complaints. 

I'm aware of that.  There is a back story there and I don't believe they were pure as the driven snow but that is immaterial.  He was found GUILTY of one count of what amounts to disgusting behavior.  Considering what he has been doing for years I'd say it's justice to have his rank and benefits restored.  If his peers were correct then I suspect they'd have had enough of a cohesive story and maybe even some EVIDENCE that would have gotten him convicted, no?

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Have a great night and may your dreams come true.

Step on a toe, did I?  

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

19 minutes ago, and then said:

Step on a toe, did I?  

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, and then said:

Step on a toe, did I?  

 

Are you a Christian Zionist?

[Phaeton80]

3 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Are you a Christian Zionist?

You can safely leave out the referral to Christ(ianity) here imo.. Although AT would agressively beg to differ, his words / opinions are - if anything - sheer anti Christian, Christianity inverted.

[aztek]

6 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

I’d say the difference was between someone accidentally hitting a child with a car and intentionally running a child down.

convoys do not stop for anyone, so it is not accidental. 

[Hankenhunter]

Well, I think we can safely guess why Clint Lawrence was pardoned.

https://www.fark.com/goto/10625756/twitter.com/loranceclint/status/1196805805661728774

Say hello to trumps new attack dog.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Hankenhunter

[+and-then]

14 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Are you a Christian Zionist?

Yes.  See post# 78 in MASS PROTESTS IN IRAN.  THAT is what Christian Zionism is about.  We don't seek the end of the world nor do we hope to instigate it.  We do believe it is coming and that nothing is going to stop it.   People have a choice of what they will believe.  

[Hankenhunter]

33 minutes ago, and then said:

Yes.  See post# 78 in MASS PROTESTS IN IRAN.  THAT is what Christian Zionism is about.  We don't seek the end of the world nor do we hope to instigate it.  We do believe it is coming and that nothing is going to stop it.   People have a choice of what they will believe.  

Yup, you and your fellow Evangelicals are doing your damdest to bring it about too. People have a choice of what they believe, but, if that belief is that others have to share the same belief, it is no longer a religion, but a pogrom. Evangelicals have been actively destroying America from within for decades.

 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Hankenhunter

[Farmer77]

14 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

Yup, you and your fellow Evangelicals are doing your damdest to bring it about too. People have a choice of what they believe, but, if that belief is that others have to share the same belief, it is no longer a religion, but a pogrom. Evangelicals have been actively destroying America from within for decades.

 

In addition to being a death cult theyre also constantly lying about being a death cult. So much so that they actually believe it.

[Hankenhunter]

Whoa,  I knew there would be repercussions. 

https://www.kusi.com/navy-wants-to-eject-chief-eddie-gallagher-who-was-cleared-by-trump-from-seals/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

Don't blow a gasket, And Then. 

 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Hankenhunter

[+and-then]

4 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

Yup, you and your fellow Evangelicals are doing your damdest to bring it about too. People have a choice of what they believe, but, if that belief is that others have to share the same belief, it is no longer a religion, but a pogrom. Evangelicals have been actively destroying America from within for decades.

 

Care to cite an instance where rabid, angry Christians demanded you conform to their faith, or else?  I mean, if this has been going on for "decades" it should be easy to post some examples of the struggle.  Take your time.  I suspect your chief grievance is actually that you have to share the marketplace of ideas with anything you don't like or believe.  In the old days, when adults roamed free in America we had this behavior called live and let live.