+and-then Posted November 17, 2019 #76 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Not A Rockstar said: Most of the dems running have nothing to offer unless they run very centrist down this way. This is also why many of the newly elected Congress critters in Red States will be vulnerable if they vote to impeach. They basically ran as conservatives and promised real achievements of value NOT party sycophancy and laser focus on the Bad Orange Man. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted November 17, 2019 #77 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Captain Risky said: So it is that while Donald Trump’s attempt to add a citizenship question to the Census failed, the mission continues. So you seem to think it is somehow dishonest to want to restrict NON-CITIZENS from determining our elections? Are you sure you want to be associated with that kind of overt tyranny? Do you support removing the borders in your country and then promising all comers that they will be fed, housed, educated and have free healthcare? THAT is what the D's are saying in their debates. Would you vote for that? Would your neighbors? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted November 17, 2019 #78 Share Posted November 17, 2019 11 minutes ago, and then said: So you seem to think it is somehow dishonest to want to restrict NON-CITIZENS from determining our elections? I cant speak for Captain but IMO its pretty obvious that the dishonesty is about the intent altogether. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted November 17, 2019 #79 Share Posted November 17, 2019 43 minutes ago, Captain Risky said: I can't see Mitch being pleased these last couple of weeks with support for Trump. Every time i see Mitch McConnell he comes across as completely devoid of any personality and unreadable. Who knows what he is going to do to address this republican problem. Hope springs eternal. I'm tempted to ask you how old you are, Cap'n. The outcome of a Senate trial will be based on politics. 67 votes are needed to convict and remove. The Democrats hold 45 Senate seats and they have 2 independents that almost always vote with them for a total of 47 votes IF all the Dems vote a party line. The Republicans hold 53 seats. The math is pretty simple. 67-48 =19 So, IF both sides vote straight party line 19 Republican Senators will have to vote against their own viability in the next election. In reality the numbers will probably be a little more complicated. Collins of Maine and Murchowski of Alaska usually vote with Dems as well. Balance that with at least a couple of Democrats who were elected in Red states by being Conservative - West Virginia comes to mind - and the vote totals will probably shale out at 55 or fewer votes to convict. It's also possible that Schumer could have a revolt where several of his party refuse to vote guilty. But, as I said, keep that hope alive. It should be the last thing to die for most people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted November 17, 2019 #80 Share Posted November 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: I cant speak for Captain but IMO its pretty obvious that the dishonesty is about the intent altogether. If/when that question is added, it will have the effect of reducing the numbers of illegal voters and it might well reduce the allowances of federal funds going to states that harbor non-citizens. We have a fundamental difference of opinion in this country about immigration and open borders. A nation that has no control of borders or a way to ensure fair elections will not survive and Democrats are not stupid so it would appear this is their long term goal. I can assure you it will be fought. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted November 17, 2019 Author #81 Share Posted November 17, 2019 28 minutes ago, and then said: So you seem to think it is somehow dishonest to want to restrict NON-CITIZENS from determining our elections? Are you sure you want to be associated with that kind of overt tyranny? Do you support removing the borders in your country and then promising all comers that they will be fed, housed, educated and have free healthcare? THAT is what the D's are saying in their debates. Would you vote for that? Would your neighbors? Correct me if I'm wrong but non citizens can't vote, period. My understanding is that Trump is proposing creating data sets that favour republicans based on voter eligibility. Mainly to the detriment of Hispanic voters that traditionally vote democrat. Area's with high immigrants won't get proper representation. Its got nothing to do with removing borders and such. Just gerrymandering advantageously for the republicans. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted November 17, 2019 Author #82 Share Posted November 17, 2019 24 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: I cant speak for Captain but IMO its pretty obvious that the dishonesty is about the intent altogether. So it would seem but how something as undemocratic as denying proportional representation to a group of people based on nothing but 'you live in an area that has too many potential democrat voters so you need to be culled' could get traction in a democracy like yours is mind boggling. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted November 17, 2019 #83 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Just now, and then said: We have a fundamental difference of opinion in this country about immigration and open borders. Not as fundamental as you think. You have been conditioned to believe that anyone without an R next to their name, or anyone who doesnt want to stoop to the lowest levels of humanity to demean the "others" wants open borders. Its simply not true for me (an independent) or the majority of democrats based on polling. 5 minutes ago, and then said: If/when that question is added, it will have the effect of reducing the numbers of illegal voters and it might well reduce the allowances of federal funds going to states that harbor non-citizens. For me personally my primary objection to the census question is its genesis being based on a lie created and pushed in order to assuage the ego of a single man. I just cant condone the alteration of reality based on lies and conspiracy theories. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted November 17, 2019 #84 Share Posted November 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Captain Risky said: Area's with high immigrants won't get proper representation. I think you are missing a central point. People who sneak into this country illegally are not "immigrants" The truth is that they ARE voting because the same blue states that want them to keep coming only require a driver's license and they have no trouble getting those without a social security number or any other proof of citizenship. You really should brush up on your facts. People who sneak into America illegally do not QUALIFY for "representation" How difficult a concept can this be for you? I also note that you didn't respond to the essence of my question because you don't have the cheek to be that honest here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted November 17, 2019 Author #85 Share Posted November 17, 2019 25 minutes ago, and then said: Hope springs eternal. I'm tempted to ask you how old you are, Cap'n. The outcome of a Senate trial will be based on politics. 67 votes are needed to convict and remove. The Democrats hold 45 Senate seats and they have 2 independents that almost always vote with them for a total of 47 votes IF all the Dems vote a party line. The Republicans hold 53 seats. The math is pretty simple. 67-48 =19 So, IF both sides vote straight party line 19 Republican Senators will have to vote against their own viability in the next election. In reality the numbers will probably be a little more complicated. Collins of Maine and Murchowski of Alaska usually vote with Dems as well. Balance that with at least a couple of Democrats who were elected in Red states by being Conservative - West Virginia comes to mind - and the vote totals will probably shale out at 55 or fewer votes to convict. It's also possible that Schumer could have a revolt where several of his party refuse to vote guilty. But, as I said, keep that hope alive. It should be the last thing to die for most people Well Mitch is no God. He can only direct his fellow republican senators. He can threaten. He can even cut a deal. How they vote is their business. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted November 17, 2019 #86 Share Posted November 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Captain Risky said: So it would seem but how something as undemocratic as denying proportional representation to a group of people based on nothing but 'you live in an area that has too many potential democrat voters so you need to be culled' could get traction in a democracy like yours is mind boggling. Air conditioning and cable TV were the genesis. Foxnews has been the coup de gras though. Hell they even do it with prison populations The Way the Census Counts Prison Populations Seriously Distorts Redistricting Quote Less noticed, though, than these two cases was a galvanic blow delivered to democracy by the Census Bureau just last year—when the bureau declined to change long-standing policy and count incarcerated persons where they previously lived, rather than in the place of their imprisonment. Because prisons tend to be located in white, rural districts, counting prison populations by prison location artificially inflates these districts’ political power and diminishes political representation for urban and suburban areas. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted November 17, 2019 Author #87 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Just now, and then said: I think you are missing a central point. People who sneak into this country illegally are not "immigrants" The truth is that they ARE voting because the same blue states that want them to keep coming only require a driver's license and they have no trouble getting those without a social security number or any other proof of citizenship. You really should brush up on your facts. People who sneak into America illegally do not QUALIFY for "representation" How difficult a concept can this be for you? I also note that you didn't respond to the essence of my question because you don't have the cheek to be that honest here. Okay i didn't know that you only need a drivers licence to vote. What a loop hole. But still doesn't change the fact that these people will still be able to vote. Nothing really changes just that the republicans will nullify their votes by favouring rural and republican districts. Thats dishonest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted November 17, 2019 #88 Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Captain Risky said: Okay i didn't know that you only need a drivers licence to vote. What a loop hole. Even that characterization is a little disingenuous without further context. Each state has multiple types of drivers licenses, including ones approved for federal use and ones which are not. Edited November 17, 2019 by Farmer77 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted November 17, 2019 Author #89 Share Posted November 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Even that characterization is a little disingenuous without further context. Each state has multiple types of drivers licenses, including ones approved for federal use and ones which are not. Thanks for the clarification, Farmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted November 17, 2019 Author #90 Share Posted November 17, 2019 26 minutes ago, and then said: IPeople who sneak into America illegally do not QUALIFY for "representation" How difficult a concept can this be for you? I also note that you didn't respond to the essence of my question because you don't have the cheek to be that honest here. No thats not how it works. If Trump and the republicans truely worried about illegals being given citizenship rights like voting then they would have applied to stop them from voting, period. They didn't. What they're doing is taking advantage of the situation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hankenhunter Posted November 17, 2019 #91 Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) Perhaps this election was more important than the governorship. It seems to be getting attention also. Edited November 17, 2019 by Hankenhunter 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynGuy Posted November 17, 2019 #92 Share Posted November 17, 2019 9 hours ago, Captain Risky said: Now refresh my memory. Louisiana is a red state, right ? CR thanks for the thread. I'm not sure if it's Blue or Red State, however I'm happy with the outcome. It was a fair election and it's good to see that Louisiana Democrat Gov. John Bel Edwards is a more middle of the road Politician. I think he ran on many policies that both Republicans and Democrats would support. Governor Edwards who is a U.S. Military Academy graduate and former Army Ranger, said he opposes gun restrictions, he signed one of the nation's strictest abortion bans and he dismissed the impeachment inquiry against the President as a distraction. It appears that his win was a win for all of us in many respects. Thanks again for the link. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpandMyMind Posted November 17, 2019 #93 Share Posted November 17, 2019 14 hours ago, Captain Risky said: Correct me if I'm wrong but non citizens can't vote, period. You are mistaken. Millions voted for Hillary in 2016. It's the reason Trump lost the popular vote, silly. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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