US softens position on Israeli settlements

[BrooklynGuy]

Secretary of State Pompeo just made the announcement on this.

US softens position on Israeli settlements

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is expected to announce on Monday that the U.S. is softening its position on Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank, the latest in a series of Trump administration moves that weaken Palestinian claims to statehood. Pompeo plans to repudiate a 1978 State Department legal opinion that held that civilian settlements in the occupied territories are “inconsistent with international law.” The move will likely anger Palestinians and put the U.S. at odds with other nations working to end the conflict.

Read more: https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2019/11/18/us-softens-position-on-israel-settlements-in-west-bank

[ExpandMyMind]

If the US soften their stance any further they'll be building the Occupation all by themselves.

[RoofGardener]

12 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

If the US soften their stance any further they'll be building the Occupation all by themselves.

Good ! And it's not an occupation ! 

[Setton]

31 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Good ! And it's not an occupation ! 

The Occupied Palestinian Territories is not an occupation..? 

[ExpandMyMind]

49 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Good ! And it's not an occupation ! 

Sure, and the sky doesn't look blue, water isn't wet, the sun isn't warm and you have sound logical reasoning behind your argument.

Roofy, you know you're talking b******s. In fact, I think you might actually be trolling me. We've been down this road before, remember? It's the one where you disregard International Law in favour of the long defunct Right of Conquest. When your argument depends on the legitimacy of the claim that countries have a right to conquer each other based on a law that was abolished due to the catastrophe of WW2, you don't actually have an argument, buddy.

But carry on.

Edited November 18, 2019 by ExpandMyMind

[+and-then]

17 minutes ago, Setton said:

The Occupied Palestinian Territories is not an occupation..? 

Ahh the magic of words.  Those who control the language in a conversation control the understanding of the issue.  At least, for those who look no further than the propaganda.  Palestinians were squatters at best and the only thing they have in their favor today is their choice of enemy.  Their Arab brothers wouldn't spit on them to quench the flames if they were on fire but for the chance to harm the Jews.  They literally despise Palestinians.  

 

[+and-then]

4 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

But carry on.

Oh, we will.  The world will eventually burn over it too.  Are there any other downtrodden groups you give as much energy to defending?  Is your angst over Tibet causing you to lose sleep?  Kashmir causing you restlessness, is it?  Those like you who perpetuate this hatred literally support the deaths of Palestinians and the misery they endure by keeping their hate alive and giving them hope that someday they will be able to make the Jews all die or run away (to be hunted down later).  What ever happened to "peaceful coexistence"?  Or is that for everyone except those you disagree with?

[Setton]

8 minutes ago, and then said:

Ahh the magic of words.  Those who control the language in a conversation control the understanding of the issue.  At least, for those who look no further than the propaganda.  Palestinians were squatters at best and the only thing they have in their favor today is their choice of enemy.  Their Arab brothers wouldn't spit on them to quench the flames if they were on fire but for the chance to harm the Jews.  They literally despise Palestinians.  

 

Do you know something, I might put slightly more value on the assessment of our government than the words of a raving religious fanatic on an anonymous forum. 

Thanks for your ramblings though. 

[ExpandMyMind]

40 minutes ago, and then said:

Oh, we will.  The world will eventually burn over it too.  Are there any other downtrodden groups you give as much energy to defending?  Is your angst over Tibet causing you to lose sleep?  Kashmir causing you restlessness, is it?  

No, but I'm sure if there were some fundamentalist idiots defending China or any other occupying nation then I would. As it happens, everyone know China and the likes of Turkey are wrong. No one defends them.

But, people often try to defend Israel's actions, hence the debate.

40 minutes ago, and then said:

Those like you who perpetuate this hatred literally support the deaths of Palestinians and the misery they endure by keeping their hate alive and giving them hope that someday they will be able to make the Jews all die or run away (to be hunted down later).  What ever happened to "peaceful coexistence"?  Or is that for everyone except those you disagree with?

Yeah, that's fine, attack my character all you want. You've never actually had a sensible opinion on the subject anyway. The evidence for your arguments amount to, 'Israel is always right because they're the chosen ones and I'm a fundamentalist extremist, one dog whistle away from becoming a domestic terrorist'. So I couldn't care less what you think, because you don't actually think.

Incredible, though, that you criticise the Palestinians in one thread for the terrorism used against the country that's occupied them since time immemorial, and in another thread threaten that you'll become a domestic terrorist yourself in your upcoming "civil war". 

Edited November 18, 2019 by ExpandMyMind

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, Setton said:

Do you know something, I might put slightly more value on the assessment of our government than the words of a raving religious fanatic on an anonymous forum. 

Thanks for your ramblings though. 

De nada   

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Incredible, though, that you criticise the Palestinians in one thread for the terrorism used against the country that's occupied them since time immemorial, and in another thread threaten that you'll become a domestic terrorist yourself in your upcoming "civil war". 

As I said, the magic of words.  You lost your ability to pull my chain a while back.  Your opinion of me means less than you could possibly imagine.  As to "domestic terrorists", I think of those like yourself as more readily prompted to violence.  The fact that you post innumerable pieces here that all push an anti-American bias tells me you're obsessed with a country that isn't yours and especially with a political leader that makes no decision for your government.  I think people who actually obsess over such things may have a bit of a mental issue.  Either that or you really have issues with anger and hatred.  Either way, fortunately, you are totally impotent to cause problems here.

[Only_]

5 hours ago, and then said:

As I said, the magic of words.  You lost your ability to pull my chain a while back.  Your opinion of me means less than you could possibly imagine.  As to "domestic terrorists", I think of those like yourself as more readily prompted to violence.  The fact that you post innumerable pieces here that all push an anti-American bias tells me you're obsessed with a country that isn't yours and especially with a political leader that makes no decision for your government.  I think people who actually obsess over such things may have a bit of a mental issue.  Either that or you really have issues with anger and hatred.  Either way, fortunately, you are totally impotent to cause problems here.

Surely you know that American policies do have repercussions abroad? Even if he doesn't live on american soil, his own country is probably influenced in some ways by your political leaders that make decisions. He is entitled to have his views.

Edited November 19, 2019 by crookedspiral

[Farmer77]

6 hours ago, and then said:

The fact that you post innumerable pieces here that all push an anti-American bias

News that is bad for Trump is not anti-American.

Believing a single individual is America just may be however.

[Grim Reaper 6]

11 hours ago, BrooklynGuy said:

Secretary of State Pompeo just made the announcement on this.

US softens position on Israeli settlements

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is expected to announce on Monday that the U.S. is softening its position on Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank, the latest in a series of Trump administration moves that weaken Palestinian claims to statehood. Pompeo plans to repudiate a 1978 State Department legal opinion that held that civilian settlements in the occupied territories are “inconsistent with international law.” The move will likely anger Palestinians and put the U.S. at odds with other nations working to end the conflict.

Read more: https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2019/11/18/us-softens-position-on-israel-settlements-in-west-bank

I personally think the US should stay out of the Israeli Palestinian conflict, Israel certainly doesn't need our help. Much of the US involment is being supported and pushed by the Christian Zionist movement. John Hagee is the leader of the main Christian Zionist organisation, Christians United for Israel, he was chosen along with Robert Jeffress  by President Trump to open and close the ceremony for the new US Embassy in Jerusalem with Prayer. Both of these men advise President Trump on issues involving Israel. How much of these decisions are influenced by these men and the Christian Zionist movement is unknown but it certainly fits perfectly into their agenda. It also explains why some of the staunchest Forum members support President Trump.

JIMO

Edited November 19, 2019 by Manwon Lender

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, crookedspiral said:

He is entitled to have his views.

I never implied he doesn't.  When he spends as much time here relentlessly pursuing the same thing, I also can give opinions.  America influences the rest of the world but those who think we own it or control everything that happens in their own countries are either ignorant or desire to change the focus off the failures of their own nations.  

[+and-then]

55 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Both of these men advise President Trump on issues involving Israel.

I'm sure their influence outweighs the fact that his grandchildren are Jewish, yeah?  What he does for Israel concerns their enemies more than their friends, certainly.  You may find that when all is said and done, his actions cause a shake up in the status quo that may actually be responsible for peace to be signed.  Not that most would ever give him credit, mind you.

Demographics in the U.S. are not on Israel's side.  Trump may well be the last president who is less than hostile to Israel.  We know that when Israel's enemies come against her in the last times, Israel will be totally alone.  NO allies.  That time may be near or it may be years away but the trend is for younger people who are clueless about the horrors of Nazism, Socialism, and Communism to be making decisions about our future.  Cutting Israel loose because of their perceptions from the media is a foregone conclusion.  When the dust settles, they will find that their opinion didn't matter as much as they thought.

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

the Christian Zionist movement is unknown but it certainly fits perfectly into their agenda.

Care to explain your understanding of the "Christian Zionist Agenda"?

[Grim Reaper 6]

4 minutes ago, and then said:

I'm sure their influence outweighs the fact that his grandchildren are Jewish, yeah?  What he does for Israel concerns their enemies more than their friends, certainly.  You may find that when all is said and done, his actions cause a shake up in the status quo that may actually be responsible for peace to be signed.  Not that most would ever give him credit, mind you.

Demographics in the U.S. are not on Israel's side.  Trump may well be the last president who is less than hostile to Israel.  We know that when Israel's enemies come against her in the last times, Israel will be totally alone.  NO allies.  That time may be near or it may be years away but the trend is for younger people who are clueless about the horrors of Nazism, Socialism, and Communism to be making decisions about our future.  Cutting Israel loose because of their perceptions from the media is a foregone conclusion.  When the dust settles, they will find that their opinion didn't matter as much as they thought.

Are you a Christian Zionist?

[Grim Reaper 6]

35 minutes ago, and then said:

Care to explain your understanding of the "Christian Zionist Agenda"?

I asked you a simple question, are you a Christian Zionist?

Does the Cat got your tongue?

[SHaYap]

3 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Does the Cat got your tongue?

No, his tongue is stuck up in the cat... 

~

[Grim Reaper 6]

29 minutes ago, third_eye said:

No, his tongue is stuck up in the cat... 

~

Now that is some funny ****.

[RoofGardener]

13 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Sure, and the sky doesn't look blue, water isn't wet, the sun isn't warm and you have sound logical reasoning behind your argument.

Roofy, you know you're talking b******s. In fact, I think you might actually be trolling me. We've been down this road before, remember? It's the one where you disregard International Law in favour of the long defunct Right of Conquest. When your argument depends on the legitimacy of the claim that countries have a right to conquer each other based on a law that was abolished due to the catastrophe of WW2, you don't actually have an argument, buddy.

But carry on.

Oh, I'm talking bull**** am I ? Tell me ... if the territories are occupied, which nation are they occupied  FROM ? 

The immediate previous occupiers where Jordan. However, Jordan ceded ownership of the territories to "The Palestinians", who weren't a nation at the time. In any case the Jordanians took the territory by military force, which - according to the UN - doesn't give ANY rights of "ownership", including the right to cede the territory. 

 The previous "occupants" where the British, but that was under a League of Nations mandate, and they where never considered to be either occupiers or 'owners' of the land. 

And prior to that, it was the Ottoman Empire; again, by force of arms. 

The full name of the region is "The Palestinian Occupied Territories", but to repeat my earlier point.. there was no such nation as "Palestine" at the point when they where "occupied", so in normal useage of the international accepted meaning of the term, they where not 'occupied'. Or rather, they where "occupied", but not "Occupied". 

I'll grant you that the UN regards them as  occupied... but here's the thing.. Until 1999 the territories where referred to as "occupied Arab territories" even by the UN. What nation - precisely - is the "Arab Territories" ? And why did the "Arab territories" suddenly become "Palestinian territories" ? 

The State of Palestine was declared in 1988. But it was declared in disputed territory. By any RATIONAL standard this would be disallowed, or result in an immediate civil war. The Arab Palestinians had no RIGHT over the territory, other than that offered by the original UN partition plan, which the Arab Palestinians roundly rejected at the time. 

This appears to be a classic example of international law being modified when it comes to its application to Israel. One rule for them, but a different rule for everybody else. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by RoofGardener

[RoofGardener]

13 hours ago, Setton said:

The Occupied Palestinian Territories is not an occupation..? 

It's occupied, but not (in my opinion) Occupied.  

(see my post above) 

[ExpandMyMind]

5 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

This appears to be a classic example of international law being modified when it comes to its application to Israel. One rule for them, but a different rule for everybody else. 

Yes, it's all an anti-Semitic conspiracy against the Chosen Ones. The entire World with the exception of Israel and a few American politicians has been wrong all these years. The European immigrants who invaded and stole someone else's land are obviously the victims.

You might want to let someone know.

"If I was an Arab leader, I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: We have taken their country. … They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country."

David Ben-Gurion, first prime minister of Israel.

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

I asked you a simple question, are you a Christian Zionist?

Does the Cat got your tongue?

I was sleeping a bit.  Yes, I'm a Christian Zionist.  That's why I asked what their agenda was, in your estimation.