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BrooklynGuy

US softens position on Israeli settlements

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Manwon Lender

I think is time to move the Christian Zionist content in thread to Thread of its own. 

Thanks to everyone who responded to my posts on this subject.

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odas
5 hours ago, and then said:

Then where would you draw the line where receiving justice for the Palestinian is concerned?  If it becomes clear that the only way they obtain what they desire is for the region to burn, will you be okay with that?  You seem unwilling to honestly answer that question.  Why is that?

The region is burning already since 1947 with no fault of the Palestinians. They did not start it.

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and then
8 minutes ago, odas said:

The region is burning already since 1947 with no fault of the Palestinians. They did not start it.

This is another non-answer.  Why is it so difficult to just admit your belief that ANY action that gives the Palestinians what they want is acceptable?  Clearly, you believe this or you could state where you would draw a line beyond which no one should go.  I believe that most who hate Israel/Jews would gladly see another holocaust if it removed Jews from that land and even from the world.  It's my belief that this hatred is not even natural.  You can find people who virulently hate Jews even if they've never been wronged by one or even MET ONE.  That is supernatural and it won't be defeated by Jews or anyone else.  

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odas
9 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

It came from the Israeli parliament. They have the power - as a sovereign nation - to make any policy they want regarding immigration ? 

Was that descision made after Israel was established or before? 

To continue, if such a rule applies to one, even if it was made by a parliament of a sovereign nation, it is not bending rules to apply it to other native inhabitants of this region. Otherwise, Israel can be by all acounts called an apartheid state.

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3 minutes ago, odas said:

Otherwise, Israel can be by all acounts called an apartheid state.

They can be and ARE called by many different expletives and evils.  It makes none of them true, however.  Their biggest offense against the world is their EXISTENCE.  

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odas
2 minutes ago, and then said:

This is another non-answer.  Why is it so difficult to just admit your belief that ANY action that gives the Palestinians what they want is acceptable?  Clearly, you believe this or you could state where you would draw a line beyond which no one should go.  I believe that most who hate Israel/Jews would gladly see another holocaust if it removed Jews from that land and even from the world.  It's my belief that this hatred is not even natural.  You can find people who virulently hate Jews even if they've never been wronged by one or even MET ONE.  That is supernatural and it won't be defeated by Jews or anyone else.  

Why do you always bring religion and hate in play? Israels actions towards Palestinians have nothing to do with Jews or Muslims and vice versa.

If Judaism was the real and true path of Israel then there would be far more Black Jews in the country, but, the word is the white" jews" do no likey.

Israel and Judaism are not the same. And using the "you hate jews" card is a popular way to shut up anyone who dares to critisize Israel. That worked in the past but it stars to wear out.

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30 minutes ago, odas said:

Why do you always bring religion and hate in play? Israels actions towards Palestinians have nothing to do with Jews or Muslims and vice versa.

If Judaism was the real and true path of Israel then there would be far more Black Jews in the country, but, the word is the white" jews" do no likey.

Israel and Judaism are not the same. And using the "you hate jews" card is a popular way to shut up anyone who dares to critisize Israel. That worked in the past but it stars to wear out.

Why don't you answer the simple question?  BTW, I said nothing about YOU hating Jews.  So, what action could the Palestinians take that you would stop supporting their cause?  Anything?

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Manwon Lender
43 minutes ago, odas said:

Why do you always bring religion and hate in play? Israels actions towards Palestinians have nothing to do with Jews or Muslims and vice versa.

If Judaism was the real and true path of Israel then there would be far more Black Jews in the country, but, the word is the white" jews" do no likey.

Israel and Judaism are not the same. And using the "you hate jews" card is a popular way to shut up anyone who dares to critisize Israel. That worked in the past but it stars to wear out.

Why would there be far more Black Jews in Israel. Palestinians aren't Black, so where would these Blacks come from? 

Did you know that while Middle Eastern  people are light brown, according to the US census they are considered White.

Sorry but I am confused.

Edited by Manwon Lender

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6 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Why would there be far more Black Jews in Israel. Palestinians aren't Black, so where would these Blacks come from? 

Did you know that while Middle Eastern  people are light brown, according to the US census they are considered White.

Sorry but I am confused.

I believe he is referring to the "Khazar" story about Jews who are from Europe are not REAL Jews.  It tells me that he either does not know of or appreciate the Diaspora or its impact on the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  

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Manwon Lender
20 minutes ago, and then said:

I believe he is referring to the "Khazar" story about Jews who are from Europe are not REAL Jews.  It tells me that he either does not know of or appreciate the Diaspora or its impact on the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  

The only Black Jews I am aware of is a group Tribes in Africa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Africa

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RoofGardener
2 hours ago, odas said:

Was that descision made after Israel was established or before? 

To continue, if such a rule applies to one, even if it was made by a parliament of a sovereign nation, it is not bending rules to apply it to other native inhabitants of this region. Otherwise, Israel can be by all acounts called an apartheid state.

Umm... if you are comparing Israeli immigration policy with the Palestinian "right of return", then you are way off the mark, @odas

One is a government policy regarding immigration into its own nation. 

The other is a group of people attempting to IMPOSE immigration against a third-party nation state, against that states will, and with the intention of destroying that state. 

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ExpandMyMind
7 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Why would there be far more Black Jews in Israel. Palestinians aren't Black, so where would these Blacks come from? 

Did you know that while Middle Eastern  people are light brown, according to the US census they are considered White.

Sorry but I am confused.

Africa. Mainly Ethiopia. It should be noted that the indigenous Jewish population are far darker skinned than their European counterparts and both Ethiopians and the original Jews have suffered notable racism, much the same as what happens in any other white-European country.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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Phaeton80
16 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Why would there be far more Black Jews in Israel. Palestinians aren't Black, so where would these Blacks come from? 

Did you know that while Middle Eastern  people are light brown, according to the US census they are considered White.

Sorry but I am confused.


Colored, not black perse. There are different Jewish populations, these consist of Ashkenazim (Slavic / Eastern European, sons of Ashkenaz), Sephardim (Southern European / North African), and Mizrahim (Middle Easter n/ North African). The Ashkenazim, holding their own language called Yiddish, seem to hail from the Scythian tribes intermarrying with Middle Eastern bloodlines. Interesting to note here is that Ashkenaz was a descendant of Japheth, the brother of Shem, which in turn is the progenitor of the 'Semites' (Shem). In other words, Ashkenaz, the progenitor of the Ashkenazim, is not a descendant of Shem (or Abraham, patriarch of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and other religions), and as such his descendants are technically not to be defined as 'Semites' in that sense, rather Japhetites. Irony is, modern Palestinians are descendants of Shem through Abraham's son Ishmael. Both Shem and Japheth however, are descendants of Noah, then again.. Ham was also.

In Israel today, Ashkenazi Jews have the most prominent role in society and the political leadership. There are numerous examples of inequality between the three mentioned Jewish groups, where Ashkenazi Jews have been known to hold discriminatory attitudes towards the other two.

There is much debate about the true origins of the Ashkenazim, it is an interesting subject to say the least.

https://www.wisegeek.com/who-are-the-ashkenazi-jews.htm

https://www.the-scientist.com/daily-news/genetic-roots-of-the-ashkenazi-jews-38580

https://www.ancient-origins.net/human-origins-science/ashkenazi-jews-their-origins-may-surprise-you-009924

..So, when we hear about the anti Semitism perpetrated by 'the lowly, terrorist Palestinians against the (Ashkenazi ruled) nation of Israel..' to which the whole force of the mighty Israeli army bombs the Palestinian 'not so occupied territories..' It is actually the exact opposite. Palestinians are, in fact, more Semites than the Ashkenazim will ever be; given they are direct descendants of Shem, and the Ashkenazi are not.

[Edit: add links]

Edited by Phaeton80

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ExpandMyMind
4 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

Palestinians are, in fact, more Semites than the Ashkenazim will ever be; given they are direct descendants of Shem, and the Ashkenazi are not.

I honestly don't think the distinction matters much to the debate and it's often counter productive as it only stirs emotions. I know you were just answering a question though and not intending anything like that.

I've never been one to get too into the genetic stuff. I read a little bit years ago but realised it doesn't matter to the debate just how 'Jewish' or 'Semitic' Ashkenazi Jews are or people think they are. 

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Phaeton80

I think it is rather essential, if only for the fact the Ashkenazi claim ownership of the land based on being the descendants of Shem, of Abraham.

This 'stirring emotions' is of no relevance to me, I am only using facts which are relevant to the discussion (imo). If we are to circumvent all aspects which can 'stir emotions', we are left with a rather sterile debate. The whole topic is inherently emotionally laden, especially for those who have vested their fanatical support for either side.

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odas
On 11/23/2019 at 12:54 AM, Manwon Lender said:

Why would there be far more Black Jews in Israel. Palestinians aren't Black, so where would these Blacks come from? 

Did you know that while Middle Eastern  people are light brown, according to the US census they are considered White.

Sorry but I am confused.

Read about the Ethiopean and other African Jews trying to move to Israel.

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odas
On 11/23/2019 at 12:44 AM, and then said:

Why don't you answer the simple question?  BTW, I said nothing about YOU hating Jews.  So, what action could the Palestinians take that you would stop supporting their cause?  Anything?

That's an easy one. If Palestinians finally become a free Nation, within it's rightfull borders including the occupied lands by Israel, when they become a souvereign country with duties, obligations and rights but if they start to discriminate against others, chase them out of their homes, murder children, women....then I will call them a nazi terorrist state, just what I call Israel now.

As for the "hate jews" coment, it does not metter if you called me or anyone else who dares to opose the Israely athrocities. Those who oppose Israely actions, oppose equaly Arab, Iranian, American or any other inhuman action towards others.

That is why my questions that I asked Roofy are important. Take the religion away out of the equasion, what real argument and historical right is there for Israel that does not apply to any other people in this area, most notably the Palestinians.

Zionists, like you, are guided by phrophesy, religious scriptures, just like your counterparts, the radical islamists and none of you have the historical fact that can back up your reasoning.

So please, stop playing the antisemitic card on everyone here. We do not hate Jews, Muslims or Christians. We hate what you guys do in the name of your religions, and we are tired of your excuses while murdering innocent people all around the world.

 

 

Edited by odas

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odas
On 11/23/2019 at 2:45 AM, RoofGardener said:

Umm... if you are comparing Israeli immigration policy with the Palestinian "right of return", then you are way off the mark, @odas

One is a government policy regarding immigration into its own nation. 

The other is a group of people attempting to IMPOSE immigration against a third-party nation state, against that states will, and with the intention of destroying that state. 

No. The right of return was created by Zionists before Israel was created itself. Therefore, a"group of people" applys also the other side.

Immigration rules that apply only to ones religion, race, nationality are not immigration rules but merely appartheid nazi rules and it does not metter if it is Israel or Saudi Arabia. Appartheid is appartheid.

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and then
2 hours ago, odas said:

We hate what you guys do in the name of your religions, and we are tired of your excuses while murdering innocent people all around the world.

I've never killed or even disconcerted anyone in Palestine.  I hold opinions about that region that pizz you off, that's my only offense.  You still didn't answer the question but I never expected you to be honest anyway.  People who crawfish around as strenuously as you and the motorcoach guy are obvious, BTW.  

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DarkHunter
2 hours ago, odas said:

Immigration rules that apply only to ones religion, race, nationality are not immigration rules but merely appartheid nazi rules and it does not metter if it is Israel or Saudi Arabia. Appartheid is appartheid.

So using your logic Armenia, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Ghana, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Lithuania, Poland, Portugal, and Spain all have as you put it apartheid nazi rules and are thus apartheid states also since all of those countries also have right of return for their ethnicity.

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Daughter of the Nine Moons

Let's please behave like civilized adults.  Members participating in this thread have been here long enough to know better.

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Manwon Lender
6 hours ago, odas said:

Read about the Ethiopean and other African Jews trying to move to Israel.

I have and while many practice the religious beliefs, they are not actually descended from the Jewish people. Only one group actually is and at this time I dont remeber which it was.

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2 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

I have and while many practice the religious beliefs, they are not actually descended from the Jewish people. Only one group actually is and at this time I dont remeber which it was.

Manwon, just a little info... the Jews were sent into exile a couple of thousand years ago.  They have maintained their culture and religion for all that time but have intermarried with multiple other populations.  They can be any race or geographical location and still be Jews plus there are many people who have taken on the religion who did not descend from the bloodline.  The important aspect of this is their determination to keep their religion and their culture intact.  This they have accomplished.

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Manwon Lender
16 minutes ago, and then said:

Manwon, just a little info... the Jews were sent into exile a couple of thousand years ago.  They have maintained their culture and religion for all that time but have intermarried with multiple other populations.  They can be any race or geographical location and still be Jews plus there are many people who have taken on the religion who did not descend from the bloodline.  The important aspect of this is their determination to keep their religion and their culture intact.  This they have accomplished.

Thanks for the information, but I understand this. Recently they have been doing DNA tests on African Tribes to see if they are descended from the Jewish Tribes to date only one tribe has tested positive. I dont remeber which one it was.

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DarkHunter
3 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Thanks for the information, but I understand this. Recently they have been doing DNA tests on African Tribes to see if they are descended from the Jewish Tribes to date only one tribe has tested positive. I dont remeber which one it was.

Probably thinking of the Lemba tribe of South Africa, or possibly the Remba which if I'm not mistaken are just Lemba from Zimbabwe instead of South Africa. 

Interestingly the vast majority of Jews do not consider the Lemba/Remba to be Jewish cause in orthodox Judaism to be considered Jewish by birth it has to be through the mother with an unbroken matrilineal line of descent while the Lemba/Remba only test positive for Jewish ancestry through the father's lineage.  Also since they dont practice Rabbinic Judaism they arent viewed as Jews by conversion which is the only other way to be recognized as Jewish by orthodox Judaism.  

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