Decission Making

[Crazy Horse]

14 hours ago, joc said:

I have just a little different approach...

...combat hate with wisdom, ignorance with wisdom, and fear with wisdom. 

I cant really argue with that...

As much as I would like too! 

But seriously, on a thread about making good decisions, how can one become more wise, or so wise as to be able to combat hate, ignorance and fear?

[XenoFish]

7 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

how can one become more wise, or so wise as to be able to combat hate, ignorance and fear?

By learning from the mistakes they've made in their lives and correct their course. To combat ignorance one must learn, to defeat fear we must face it, to battle hate we must ask ourselves do we wish to be hated. Only we can change ourselves. 

[Crazy Horse]

11 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

By learning from the mistakes they've made in their lives and correct their course. To combat ignorance one must learn, to defeat fear we must face it, to battle hate we must ask ourselves do we wish to be hated. Only we can change ourselves. 

I like that very much.

I would say that wisdom is a mixture of intelligence and knowledge, plus compassion.

What say you?

[Crazy Horse]

And by the way, did anyone notice a change in their decision making process since taking part in this thread, or maybe just by reading it?

And if yes, do you feel that you are making better decisions than before?

[XenoFish]

21 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

I like that very much.

I would say that wisdom is a mixture of intelligence and knowledge, plus compassion.

What say you?

My take on wisdom is that it's based on experience and knowledge. Compassion is it's own thing. 

[Crazy Horse]

On 11/22/2019 at 3:11 PM, littlebrowndragon said:

What you fail to understand is that anyone can come up with policies or plans to "end starvation".  That is easy.  That is trivial   That is meaningless.  That is useless.. Any old tom, dick or harry can do that.

What you also fail to understand, and this because you do not have the experience, is just what it takes to "change yourself".  And boy, will you and others be in for a shock if you ever decide to make those changes.  Want to know the really hard bit? The really hard bit is accepting that change is necessary.  And after that, there's the 25 plus years of undergoing those changes, during which time there will be a lot of things about themselves that people will have to come to terms with.  People's egos, not to say their vanity, will of necessity take quite a bashing during the process.  And the higher the person is in the pecking order i.e. the more wealthy the person, the more powerful the person, then the harder it's going to be and the longer it is going to take.  I can say all this from personal experience.  I've been through it.  So, do nothing?  That can only be said by someone who knows nothing!.

If think that depends on the person.

In my experience, and what we see in the news most days, the more someone is going against the grain so to speak, the natural order of things, the bigger the wake-up call.

An illness, a car wreck, a great big slap around the face...

But please would you explain this last bit?

"So, do nothing? That can only be said by someone who knows nothing!

 

[Crazy Horse]

9 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

My take on wisdom is that it's based on experience and knowledge. Compassion is it's own thing. 

Compassion is its own thing, you are right, but so is knowledge. 

For example, knowledge is power, and we know that any power may be used for good, or for ill. Individual choice again!

So wisdom for me is a choice, or a solution, that doesn't hurt anyone, and therefore must be more than mere knowledge.

You may not be able to please all the people all the time, but at least we can act without hurting anyone!

 

[Crazy Horse]

On 11/22/2019 at 3:58 PM, littlebrowndragon said:

In a certain respect that is correct.  An untrained, healthy mind has full use of its senses and has an animal-like awareness of its surroundings and environment that a trained and therefore unhealthy mind, does not..  To put it simply, training the mind damages it.  More than that, training destroys the mind.  The techniques used in education reduce the mind to little more than a computer - they need to do that for them to work.  Education i.e. schools, are lethal to a healthy mind.  I am talking here from personal experience.  As I restore my mind to its natural, healthy working state, I discover that my senses are also being restored to their natural, healthy state.  You cannot understand what that is like unless you experience it for yourself.   The healthy mind is phenomenally sophisticated, with abilities way  beyond anything anyone on this planet can imagine.  So, one wants one's mind to develop like and animals in terms of an animal's senses.  There are also more than the 5 standard that we are credited with, but animals do not have all of these, and nor do unhealthy minds.

I really like your posts, but have been busy with other replies to even notice what you've been writing.

Anyhoo - please explain how to restore ones mind to its natural, healthy working state.

Thanks.

 

[Festina]

On 11/20/2019 at 9:54 AM, littlebrowndragon said:

Yes, although I would qualify that by saying that children should only be asked to make decisions appropriate to their age/experience.  For example, in a local stationary shop a few years ago,I witnessed a mother asking her 4 or 5 year old daughter which of three toys she would like the best - her mother intending to buy her daughter whichever she chose.  However, that decision was obviously too much for that particular little girl, for, unable to make a decision, she burst into tears.  The mother did not appear to understand what the problem was and so became somewhat frustrated with her daughter's inability to make a decision as well as her tears.  One has to know an individual's level of ability.

Sorry double post.  Still leaning.  

 

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by Festina Lente

[Festina]

Just now, Festina Lente said:

“Toys” are passive — always a bad decision.

The toy industry is worth a thread of its own.

Art supplies, musical instruments and tools of all kinds are active and Not toys.

 

 

 

[+Desertrat56]

9 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

And by the way, did anyone notice a change in their decision making process since taking part in this thread, or maybe just by reading it?

And if yes, do you feel that you are making better decisions than before?

No.  I think some might think differently about the decisions they have made by reading this thread but it makes no sense that anything in this thread would help anyone with their decision making as that is not how it works.

I expect others besides me have noticed a change in our decision making from the time we were 13 or 14 to when we were 26 or 30, and then even more change after 30, after 40 etc.  We are always changing.

[Crazy Horse]

On 11/30/2019 at 4:40 AM, Desertrat56 said:

No.  I think some might think differently about the decisions they have made by reading this thread but it makes no sense that anything in this thread would help anyone with their decision making as that is not how it works.

I expect others besides me have noticed a change in our decision making from the time we were 13 or 14 to when we were 26 or 30, and then even more change after 30, after 40 etc.  We are always changing.

Actually that's exactly how it works. I know, because it happened to me.

 

[+Desertrat56]

6 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Actually that's exactly how it works. I know, because it happened to me.

 

Right, not reading threads about though.

[+joc]

On 11/29/2019 at 2:27 PM, Festina Lente said:

Art supplies, musical instruments and tools of all kinds are active and Not toys.

I dunno 'bout that one Festi...my guitar is a toy...I play with it all the time.  And paints...good god...I've spent countless hours playing with paints. 

[Crazy Horse]

21 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Right, not reading threads about though.

Not sure what you are trying to say here?

The reason why I started this thread was because a couple of weeks ago, maybe 3 weeks, something caught my attention about decision making, and about making good decisions, (know I come to think about it, it was on a TV show called Alone, about surviving in Alaska). Anyway, it caught my attention and a short while later I found myself thinking about this stuff, and I saw, through my mindfulness, that I had actually started to make better decisions, just little things that added-up!

So, just this simple act, without too much over-thinking, actually helped me.

[+Desertrat56]

1 minute ago, Crazy Horse said:

Not sure what you are trying to say here?

The reason why I started this thread was because a couple of weeks ago, maybe 3 weeks, something caught my attention about decision making, and about making good decisions, (know I come to think about it, it was on a TV show called Alone, about surviving in Alaska). Anyway, it caught my attention and a short while later I found myself thinking about this stuff, and I saw, through my mindfulness, that I had actually started to make better decisions, just little things that added-up!

So, just this simple act, without too much over-thinking, actually helped me.

I am thinking that my response to "Actually that's exactly how it works. I know, because it happened to me." should have been to ask what "it" is you were referring to rather than assuming you were agreeing with what I posted.

I find it interesting that you noticed changes in your decision making so quickly after watching a television show.  Is it possible you had been making small changes to the way you think before that?  I still ascribe to experience and thoughtfulness, changes in attitude and the way you think are what changes the decision making process for individuals.  Reading about everyone's ideas on this only enforces or gives thought to making decisions differently, it does not just magically change the way you make decisions, which is tied directly to the way you think and how you perceive yourself fitting into your environment.

[Crazy Horse]

17 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

I am thinking that my response to "Actually that's exactly how it works. I know, because it happened to me." should have been to ask what "it" is you were referring to rather than assuming you were agreeing with what I posted.

I find it interesting that you noticed changes in your decision making so quickly after watching a television show.  Is it possible you had been making small changes to the way you think before that?  I still ascribe to experience and thoughtfulness, changes in attitude and the way you think are what changes the decision making process for individuals.  Reading about everyone's ideas on this only enforces or gives thought to making decisions differently, it does not just magically change the way you make decisions, which is tied directly to the way you think and how you perceive yourself fitting into your environment.

"It" was a psychological change, a way of approaching certain decisions,

Like, I am really quite a mindful person, Action and reaction, cause and effect, I take note of myself and other folks behaviours. So yeah, I have been making a lot of changes to myself, consciously, over the last 16/17 years, But until now, I guess there was an assumption, more or less. that I would do the right thing, more or less. Until I saw that TV show, then it struck me just how important making the right decision was, or perhaps I could say, how important it was to take a moment to think before making a choice, and just to feel whether this was a good path to go down! 

But here's the thing I've been trying to get across.

I saw this guys mum on the TV, and she just said, "Make good decisions" and the word GOOD made a deep impression upon my mind, (these guys were in the wilderness and one bad decision could have cost them their lives) yet I didn't then think about the how's, the whys, the technical side of decision making. But because it had made a deep impression, I just naturally, over the next week or 3, found that I was quite naturally stopping for a moment before doing something, and therefore making better choices.

 

 

[Crazy Horse]

And so, I was hoping to see whether, just by talking about this stuff, it might have the same effect upon you guys?

 

[+joc]

24 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

one bad decision could have cost them their lives

But see...that's the whole jar of wax right there...

...it is impossible to know certain things...

...for example...once I was canoeing  through the Arkansas wilderness...in the winter...alone...it was imperative that I make it back to my campsite before dark.  I came to a fork in the river...had to make a split second decision...left or right...I went left.  Worked out well.

The real decision making process was overridden in the first place by determination and desire.  I had no business canoeing to begin with because:

1. I had never canoed before.

2.  I was alone.

3. There were wind advisories.

4. It was 11 miles through wilderness.

5. Did I mention I'd never canoed before?

...yet, I decided to embark on this adventure anyway.  Based on the evidence...I'd say that was a bad decision on my part...but I did it...and I made it...and that was that.

The point is...there are many factors involved in 'decision making'.

[Festina]

On 12/1/2019 at 5:54 PM, joc said:

I dunno 'bout that one Festi...my guitar is a toy...I play with it all the time.  And paints...good god...I've spent countless hours playing with paints. 

 

You misunderstood.

Musical instruments and art supplies are not “toys” they are “tools” used to create therefore they are active.  Positive +++  imagination and or skill is necessary.

Disney figures, beanie babies and the like are passive. Negative   - - - Unlike “tools” used to create these “toys”  do not inspire creativity.  They are “collectors items” and only inspire the desire to accumulate more of them. These “toy” manufacturers know exactly what they are doing.  

: ) 

[Festina]

Just now, Festina Lente said:

 

You misunderstood.

Musical instruments and art supplies are not “toys” they are “tools” used to create therefore they are active.  Positive +++  imagination and or skill is necessary.

Disney figures, beanie babies and the like are passive. Negative   - - - Unlike “tools” used to create these “toys”  do not inspire creativity.  They are “collectors items” and only inspire the desire to accumulate more of them. These “toy” manufacturers know exactly what they are doing.  

: ) 

Collecting things of nature like rocks and seashells are a different matter and inspire curiosity.

[Crazy Horse]

On 12/3/2019 at 12:15 PM, joc said:

But see...that's the whole jar of wax right there...

...it is impossible to know certain things...

...for example...once I was canoeing  through the Arkansas wilderness...in the winter...alone...it was imperative that I make it back to my campsite before dark.  I came to a fork in the river...had to make a split second decision...left or right...I went left.  Worked out well.

The real decision making process was overridden in the first place by determination and desire.  I had no business canoeing to begin with because:

1. I had never canoed before.

2.  I was alone.

3. There were wind advisories.

4. It was 11 miles through wilderness.

5. Did I mention I'd never canoed before?

...yet, I decided to embark on this adventure anyway.  Based on the evidence...I'd say that was a bad decision on my part...but I did it...and I made it...and that was that.

The point is...there are many factors involved in 'decision making'.

Are there that many factors involved?

You had a determination and desire to live, to get back to a dry and safe place! It doesn't seem too complicated to me!

If you are making a decision by yourself, that's one thing. If on the other hand you have other folks to contend with, then I would simply say, love. 

Go that extra mile when you are feeling weary.

[+joc]

32 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Are there that many factors involved?

You had a determination and desire to live, to get back to a dry and safe place! It doesn't seem too complicated to me!

If you are making a decision by yourself, that's one thing. If on the other hand you have other folks to contend with, then I would simply say, love. 

Go that extra mile when you are feeling weary.

The point is...I had a desire to go canoeing because it was my only chance...and my decision to go was based on desire and determination...not a thought process that probably should have overridden that desire.

[Crazy Horse]

6 minutes ago, joc said:

The point is...I had a desire to go canoeing because it was my only chance...and my decision to go was based on desire and determination...not a thought process that probably should have overridden that desire.

And so it was a good decision.

How you came through it unscaved may be a bit of a mystery though...

[+joc]

2 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

And so it was a good decision.

How you came through it unscaved may be a bit of a mystery though...

You got that right! I have no idea....

At one point I became stuck on a rock. I tried pushing myself off using the only oar I had.  The oar went in the river and the current was carrying it away.  Decision!  Into the water I went. Up to my neck.  Managed to grab the oar literally by the tips of my thumb and index finger....just as it was going around a sharp bend...

...I should write a book!