Decission Making

[XenoFish]

When people talk about "what does your heart tell you?" It's emotional. 

[+Desertrat56]

3 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

I would say a lot!

I know that when you serve creation, creation serves you, so good decision making, is followed by what you may think of as luck, I would call it Higher Physics at work...

 

Then maybe with your picture of reality, it is not really a decision but rather "sticking to the plan".  Which I think would indicate there was no choice, so no decision.  I find the words you use interesting. 

[littlebrowndragon]

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

If you can't make your point in less then 10 sentiences, then you might not know what you think you know well enough. 

The point about having a mind that is alive is that one does not obey rules such as the one you suggest above. One assesses for oneself what to say, how much to say, how to say it etc.  .  Also, having a live mind means that one is always learning and improving.  If you have ever played video games, especially fantasy/adventure games, then you will be familiar with the concept of "levelling up".  During play the characters amass experience points, this mostly by killing enemies.  Once the character's experience points reach a certain threshold, then the character shifts up to the next level.  As each level is achieved, the character's attributes increase.  For example, the character's vitality/strength/speed/magic power etc increase.  The character can also obtain new abilities when it levels up..  In essence, that is how the mind works.  One accumulates a lot of experience and at some point that experience is converted into enhanced or new abilities.  That is why breadth of life experience is so important.

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, littlebrowndragon said:

The point about having a mind that is alive is that one does not obey rules such as the one you suggest above. One assesses for oneself what to say, how much to say, how to say it etc.  .  Also, having a live mind means that one is always learning and improving.  If you have ever played video games, especially fantasy/adventure games, then you will be familiar with the concept of "levelling up".  During play the characters amass experience points, this mostly by killing enemies.  Once the character's experience points reach a certain threshold, then the character shifts up to the next level.  As each level is achieved, the character's attributes increase.  For example, the character's vitality/strength/speed/magic power etc increase.  The character can also obtain new abilities when it levels up..  In essence, that is how the mind works.  One accumulates a lot of experience and at some point that experience is converted into enhanced or new abilities.  That is why breadth of life experience is so important.

Keep climbing the skill tree you'll get to my level one day, maybe. 

[littlebrowndragon]

19 hours ago, joc said:

Let me boil all of this down for the viewing audience at large:

A.  Life experience of starving makes one better qualified to end starvation than one who has never starved.

B.  The cure for starvation is to do nothing.

Thanks for the lesson littlebrowndragon

What you fail to understand is that anyone can come up with policies or plans to "end starvation".  That is easy.  That is trivial   That is meaningless.  That is useless.. Any old tom, dick or harry can do that.

What you also fail to understand, and this because you do not have the experience, is just what it takes to "change yourself".  And boy, will you and others be in for a shock if you ever decide to make those changes.  Want to know the really hard bit? The really hard bit is accepting that change is necessary.  And after that, there's the 25 plus years of undergoing those changes, during which time there will be a lot of things about themselves that people will have to come to terms with.  People's egos, not to say their vanity, will of necessity take quite a bashing during the process.  And the higher the person is in the pecking order i.e. the more wealthy the person, the more powerful the person, then the harder it's going to be and the longer it is going to take.  I can say all this from personal experience.  I've been through it.  So, do nothing?  That can only be said by someone who knows nothing!.

[+Desertrat56]

23 minutes ago, littlebrowndragon said:

The point about having a mind that is alive is that one does not obey rules such as the one you suggest above. One assesses for oneself what to say, how much to say, how to say it etc.  .  Also, having a live mind means that one is always learning and improving.  If you have ever played video games, especially fantasy/adventure games, then you will be familiar with the concept of "levelling up".  During play the characters amass experience points, this mostly by killing enemies.  Once the character's experience points reach a certain threshold, then the character shifts up to the next level.  As each level is achieved, the character's attributes increase.  For example, the character's vitality/strength/speed/magic power etc increase.  The character can also obtain new abilities when it levels up..  In essence, that is how the mind works.  One accumulates a lot of experience and at some point that experience is converted into enhanced or new abilities.  That is why breadth of life experience is so important.

Ahh, so that is where you are learning, in video games.  Makes sense now.  Video games have nothing to do with reality or the mind except for the addiction of needing to constantly "level up".

[littlebrowndragon]

13 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Keep climbing the skill tree you'll get to my level one day, maybe. 

Perhaps you didn't notice, but I used the word "ability", not "skill" in the post you quoted. .  There is a fundamental difference.  Skills are dead ends.  One becomes very skilful at something like a virtuosi pianist, but acquiring skills is a dead-head activity.  Abilities are a whole different kettle of fish.  Abilities are not dead ends.  The acquisition of one ability will lead, after sufficient experience, to new abilities.  Those, in turn, can combine to create a whole new set of abilities.  The acquisition of abilities means that learning and development and growth do not end as they do with mere skills.  So, one wants abilities, not skills.  Another fundamental difference is that skills are acquired through specialisation, whereas abilities are acquired through breadth of experience.

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Ahh, so that is where you are learning, in video games.  Makes sense now.  Video games have nothing to do with reality or the mind except for the addiction of needing to constantly "level up".

Basically it's used as a metaphor for life experience. 

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, littlebrowndragon said:

Perhaps you didn't notice, but I used the word "ability", not "skill" in the post you quoted. .  There is a fundamental difference.  Skills are dead ends.  One becomes very skilful at something like a virtuosi pianist, but acquiring skills is a dead-head activity.  Abilities are a whole different kettle of fish.  Abilities are not dead ends.  The acquisition of one ability will lead, after sufficient experience, to new abilities.  Those, in turn, can combine to create a whole new set of abilities.  The acquisition of abilities means that learning and development and growth do not end as they do with mere skills.  So, one wants abilities, not skills.  Another fundamental difference is that skills are acquired through specialisation, whereas abilities are acquired through breadth of experience.

Skills are how we obtain abilities. Being able to write is a skill, it is learning this ability that matters. We practice, write, expand our knowledge to a comfortable level. Then there is the refinement stage. 

You'll get there, one day. 

[+Desertrat56]

Just now, XenoFish said:

Basically it's used as a metaphor for life experience. 

Right, but it is an invalid metaphor as far as I am concerned because learning has nothing to do with "leveling up" in any way related to the way you level up in a video game.  Part of "leveing up" in real life is learning how to get along with people where leveling up in video games usually revolves around learning to be quicker in the game.

[littlebrowndragon]

4 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Ahh, so that is where you are learning, in video games.  Makes sense now.  Video games have nothing to do with reality or the mind except for the addiction of needing to constantly "level up".

 

"Even now there are places where a thought might grow —
Peruvian mines, worked out and abandoned
To a slow clock of condensation,
An echo trapped forever, and a flutter
Of wildflowers in the lift-shaft,
Indian compounds where the wind dances
And a door bangs with diminished confidence,
Lime crevices behind rippling rainbarrels,
Dog corners for bone burials;
And in a disused shed in Co. Wexford,

Deep in the grounds of a burnt-out hotel,
Among the bathtubs and the washbasins
A thousand mushrooms crowd to a keyhole.
This is the one star in their firmament
Or frames a star within a star.
What should they do there but desire?
So many days beyond the rhododendrons
With the world waltzing in its bowl of cloud,
They have learnt patience and silence
Listening to the rooks querulous in the high wood."

(From Mahon's "A Disused Shed in Co. Wexford".)

In other words, if you do not level up i.e. develop your mind, then you die.

[XenoFish]

Just now, Desertrat56 said:

Right, but it is an invalid metaphor as far as I am concerned because learning has nothing to do with "leveling up" in any way related to the way you level up in a video game.  Part of "leveing up" in real life is learning how to get along with people where leveling up in video games usually revolves around learning to be quicker in the game.

I'm not going to disagree with you. It is a poor metaphor. 

[littlebrowndragon]

6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Basically it's used as a metaphor for life experience. 

More or less.  Video games illustrate how the mind works, so, yes, I think you are correct.  The body also illustrates how the mind works.  For example, when one eats food, one chews it over, swallows, digests the food in the stomach.  The nutrients that the body requires are absorbed into the body and the rest excreted.  Ideas and experiences are "food for thought" for the mind.  One reflects or "chews over" those experiences etc. and then digests them.  The aspects of the thoughts or experiences which are useful, which nourish the mind and allow it to grow and develop are absorbed or assimilated, whereas the stuff that is of no use is "excreted" i.e. forgotten.  

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, littlebrowndragon said:

More or less.  Video games illustrate how the mind works, so, yes, I think you are correct.  The body also illustrates how the mind works.  For example, when one eats food, one chews it over, swallows, digests the food in the stomach.  The nutrients that the body requires are absorbed into the body and the rest excreted.  Ideas and experiences are "food for thought" for the mind.  One reflects or "chews over" those experiences etc. and then digests them.  The aspects of the thoughts or experiences which are useful, which nourish the mind and allow it to grow and develop are absorbed or assimilated, whereas the stuff that is of no use is "excreted" i.e. forgotten.  

Yes and no. The reticular activation system is what filters information. Only allowing what we need in. Not only this the RAS is influenced by beliefs, this affects perception and our actions to a degree. Because of the RAS we have things such as confirmation bias and belief perseverance. 

[littlebrowndragon]

10 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Skills are how we obtain abilities. Being able to write is a skill, it is learning this ability that matters. We practice, write, expand our knowledge to a comfortable level. Then there is the refinement stage.  

No, you are wrong.  Skills and abilities are quite separate things.  Being able to write is a skill if one is trained to write as one is at e.g. school.  This skill is purely memory work.  When the mind is allowed to work naturally, it does not need to be trained - in fact, training damages a healthy mind - it will naturally "pick up" how to write by itself, just as babies "pick up" language from the adults around them.  When the mind works naturally it is healthy and it acquires abilities, not skills.

[XenoFish]

More on the RAS

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, littlebrowndragon said:

No, you are wrong.  Skills and abilities are quite separate things.  Being able to write is a skill if one is trained to write as one is at e.g. school.  This skill is purely memory work.  When the mind is allowed to work naturally, it does not need to be trained - in fact, training damages a healthy mind - it will naturally "pick up" how to write by itself, just as babies "pick up" language from the adults around them.  When the mind works naturally it is healthy and it acquires abilities, not skills.

Nope. An untrained mind is no different than a wild animal. In order to optimise performance, one must focus on developing their skills. Someone with a natural artistic inclination needs training to improve their abilities, refining their skill level. Skills are not fully memory work, they are mostly the result of specific neural pathways being built up. Making the mental and/or physical actions (hopefully correct) easier. Basically you make things habits. 

[littlebrowndragon]

3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Yes and no. The reticular activation system is what filters information. Only allowing what we need in. Not only this the RAS is influenced by beliefs, this affects perception and our actions to a degree. Because of the RAS we have things such as confirmation bias and belief perseverance. 

This is science talking.  By its own admission, science does not understand how the mind works.  If it did, then psychology as a branch of science would not exist.  However, you are correct in so far as how one views the world is affected by one's beliefs etc.

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, littlebrowndragon said:

This is science talking.  By its own admission, science does not understand how the mind works.  If it did, then psychology as a branch of science would not exist.  However, you are correct in so far as how one views the world is affected by one's beliefs etc.

Science specifically neuroscience has more of a strong foundation than anything you've yet to offer. So I'll go with that and psychology.

[littlebrowndragon]

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

 An untrained mind is no different than a wild animal. 

In a certain respect that is correct.  An untrained, healthy mind has full use of its senses and has an animal-like awareness of its surroundings and environment that a trained and therefore unhealthy mind, does not..  To put it simply, training the mind damages it.  More than that, training destroys the mind.  The techniques used in education reduce the mind to little more than a computer - they need to do that for them to work.  Education i.e. schools, are lethal to a healthy mind.  I am talking here from personal experience.  As I restore my mind to its natural, healthy working state, I discover that my senses are also being restored to their natural, healthy state.  You cannot understand what that is like unless you experience it for yourself.   The healthy mind is phenomenally sophisticated, with abilities way  beyond anything anyone on this planet can imagine.  So, one wants one's mind to develop like and animals in terms of an animal's senses.  There are also more than the 5 standard that we are credited with, but animals do not have all of these, and nor do unhealthy minds.

[XenoFish]

5 minutes ago, littlebrowndragon said:

In a certain respect that is correct.  An untrained, healthy mind has full use of its senses and has an animal-like awareness of its surroundings and environment that a trained and therefore unhealthy mind, does not..  To put it simply, training the mind damages it.  More than that, training destroys the mind.  The techniques used in education reduce the mind to little more than a computer - they need to do that for them to work.  Education i.e. schools, are lethal to a healthy mind.  I am talking here from personal experience.  As I restore my mind to its natural, healthy working state, I discover that my senses are also being restored to their natural, healthy state.  You cannot understand what that is like unless you experience it for yourself.   The healthy mind is phenomenally sophisticated, with abilities way  beyond anything anyone on this planet can imagine.  So, one wants one's mind to develop like and animals in terms of an animal's senses.  There are also more than the 5 standard that we are credited with, but animals do not have all of these, and nor do unhealthy minds.

You're going to explain these "damages" to us. I'm done playing this game, explain this view of "damaging the mind" with real examples. No more of this half-talk, we get enough of that around here from someone else. 

Edited November 22, 2019 by XenoFish

[littlebrowndragon]

26 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Science specifically neuroscience has more of a strong foundation than anything you've yet to offer.

Perhaps you should examine those foundations a bit more closely.  Science is, after all, based on nothing more than belief, just like religions.  For millennia people have been theorising about the nature of existence.  In the 1600s, philosopher Renee Descartes settled on 2 possibilities (as I say, there are many more).  He suggested that this is either (a) a material world or, (b) a dream world i.e. a virtual reality world.  These is no proof of either, yet science has simply decided to go down road (a) i.e. that we live in a material world.  That is the basic assumption i.e. not a proven fact, that underpins all of science.  Assumptions do not good foundations make. 

 

Quote

So I'll go with that and psychology.

And you are right to do so.  You should not, even if you wanted to, suddenly switch from a scientific way of thinking to the (non-scientific) view of the world that I suggest. You would likely damage your mind. (Like the body does with transplant organs, your mind will reject new ideas until it is ready to accept them, until they fit in with the existing ideas and concepts.)  In addition, why should you believe what I say?  In fact, I don't want you or anyone to believe me.  That is not how it works.  If you ever do come round to thinking that the view of the world that I propose is correct, then it will be through personal experience.  All I ask is for people to have an open mind.

Edited November 22, 2019 by littlebrowndragon
punctuation

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, littlebrowndragon said:

Perhaps you should examine those foundations a bit more closely.  Science is, after all, based on nothing more than belief, just like religions.  For millennia people have been theorising about the nature of existence.  In the 1600s, philosopher Renee Descartes settled on 2 possibilities (as I say, there are many more).  He suggested that this is either (a) a material world or, (b) a dream world i.e. a virtual reality world.  These is no proof of either, yet science has simply decided to go down road (a) i.e. that we live in a material world.  That is the basic assumption i.e. not a proven fact, that underpins all of science.  Assumptions do not good foundations make. 

 

And you are right to do so.  You should not, even if you wanted to, suddenly switch from a scientific way of thinking to the (non-scientific) view of the world that I suggest. You would likely damage your mind. (Like the body does with transplant organs, your mind will reject new ideas until it is ready to accept them, until they fit in with the existing ideas and concepts.)  In addition, why should you believe what I say?  In fact, I don't want you or anyone to believe me.  That is not how it works.  If you ever do come round to thinking that the view of the world that I propose is correct, then it will be through personal experience.  All I ask is for people to have an open mind.

Don't care. I want example of this "damage" you keep talking about. Not misdirection and redirection. 

[+joc]

1 hour ago, littlebrowndragon said:

What you fail to understand is that anyone can come up with policies or plans to "end starvation".  That is easy.  That is trivial   That is meaningless.  That is useless.. Any old tom, dick or harry can do that.

  Tell that to the millions who benefit from such plans....careful...you are treading on the thin ice of idiocy.

1 hour ago, littlebrowndragon said:

What you also fail to understand, and this because you do not have the experience, is just what it takes to "change yourself"

What is my full name?  Where do I live?  What experiences have I had in my life?  How old am I?  

That's right fella....you don't know a damn thing about me...the ice is getting real thin and I can see breaks all around you.  

[+joc]

3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Don't care. I want example of this "damage" you keep talking about. Not misdirection and redirection. 

I think we may have a Walker Junior on our hands....