+OverSword Posted November 25, 2019 #51 Share Posted November 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said: What taxes? After they force you to sell at "fair market value" then you are taxed and I'll bet you dollars to donuts at a much higher rate than normal income is taxed at, which in the case of England is already very high compared to what I'm used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted November 25, 2019 #52 Share Posted November 25, 2019 1 hour ago, OverSword said: Tuts treasure is cultural in nature and unique for the most part, were talking about a stash of not extremely rare old coins here of which there are no doubt thousands of examples. Apples/oranges. I’m not being greedy I’m being fair. Did the government expend any resources recovering this stash of loot? So how do they have first say over it’s fate. Intelligent, cultured, gullible, sheep. Our treasure is no less important than the treasure of other countries, the find was of historical importance, the way it's found is of no importance, it's what's found, so if you study old maps and dig holes to find Native American artifacts and sell them should that be allowed? or are you gullible sheep, what do you think of people in countries who aren't allowed to use a metal detector at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted November 25, 2019 #53 Share Posted November 25, 2019 19 minutes ago, OverSword said: After they force you to sell at "fair market value" then you are taxed and I'll bet you dollars to donuts at a much higher rate than normal income is taxed at, which in the case of England is already very high compared to what I'm used to. No wrong again, there's no special tax, but if you don't pay any tax on gold you mine over there you must be living in paradise, you've been wrong on everything you said so far, you only have donuts left. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted November 25, 2019 #54 Share Posted November 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said: the find was of historical importance coins (probably Roman) and trinkets (also pretty Roman in appearance IMO) are of historical importance? If it had been something directly connected with English culture then I'm in agreement but this loot is not rare religious art or writings, It's not statuary, it's not unique or specific to your culture. Keep in mind that Britannia was engulfed in a barbarous dark age in that time period and so I doubt any of the items were manufactured by any English at the time, more likely they were items the Romans brought over and left when most of them fled that outpost of civilization. It was something a viking marauder hid who was probably killed before he could retrieve it. And actually I'm not even referring to this specific case I'm talking about the law in general. I'm all for preserving actual items that would be in a museum and have actual historic value and artistic value. I won't even bother to answer your crap question about Native American artifacts as I think I made clear above what the answer would be. And what difference does the metal detector make? If a person finds something of value such as an old coin or ring on private property what business is that of anyone but themselves? If you find an ancient carving of the great spirit which is a unique piece of art that's different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted November 25, 2019 #55 Share Posted November 25, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said: No wrong again, there's no special tax, but if you don't pay any tax on gold you mine over there you must be living in paradise, you've been wrong on everything you said so far, you only have donuts left. Fine. Just the regular overly high income tax they already milk you for then. I don't feel like looking it up but I'll bet there is a higher rate though. Just like there is on inheritance. 40% for crying our loud. You think they aren't going to charge a similar rate for something like this? Your nuts. Or donuts. Whatever. Edited November 25, 2019 by OverSword Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted November 25, 2019 #56 Share Posted November 25, 2019 38 minutes ago, OverSword said: I'll bet you dollars to donuts at a much higher rate than normal income is taxed You're going senile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted November 25, 2019 #57 Share Posted November 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said: You're going senile. The n 40% is normal? Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted November 25, 2019 #58 Share Posted November 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, OverSword said: coins (probably Roman) and trinkets (also pretty Roman in appearance IMO) are of historical importance? If it had been something directly connected with English culture then I'm in agreement but this loot is not rare religious art or writings, It's not statuary, it's not unique or specific to your culture. Keep in mind that Britannia was engulfed in a barbarous dark age in that time period and so I doubt any of the items were manufactured by any English at the time, more likely they were items the Romans brought over and left when most of them fled that outpost of civilization. It was something a viking marauder hid who was probably killed before he could retrieve it. And actually I'm not even referring to this specific case I'm talking about the law in general. I'm all for preserving actual items that would be in a museum and have actual historic value and artistic value. I won't even bother to answer your crap question about Native American artifacts as I think I made clear above what the answer would be. And what difference does the metal detector make? If a person finds something of value such as an old coin or ring on private property what business is that of anyone but themselves? If you find an ancient carving of the great spirit which is a unique piece of art that's different. What your saying is 'you' want to decide what should be kept in our museums, i'll inform them for you, Lets talk about the native sites why can't you dig them? are you gullible? i wouldn't stand for that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted November 25, 2019 #59 Share Posted November 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, OverSword said: The n 40% is normal? Sad. I believe you pay 50% tax over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted November 25, 2019 #60 Share Posted November 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said: What your saying is 'you' want to decide what should be kept in our museums, i'll inform them for you, Lets talk about the native sites why can't you dig them? are you gullible? i wouldn't stand for that. You're completely off base on what I've said. I have a close friend who runs a rare coin shop. A good 1/8 of his inventory is old roman coins even all the way over here 10,000 miles away. Very few would be considered to be museum quality or rarity. And if you weren't being dense you would see my stand on anything like what would be found in a native site, which are not legal to dig anyway and I'm fine with that. Native relics are not old coins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted November 25, 2019 #61 Share Posted November 25, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said: I believe you pay 50% tax over there. WA state. And personally I'm against even that 15%. Edited November 25, 2019 by OverSword Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted November 25, 2019 #62 Share Posted November 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, OverSword said: WA state I bet a £ to a muffin it's higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted November 25, 2019 #63 Share Posted November 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, OverSword said: You're completely off base on what I've said. I have a close friend who runs a rare coin shop. A good 1/8 of his inventory is old roman coins even all the way over here 10,000 miles away. Very few would be considered to be museum quality or rarity. And they wouldn't be Treasure Trove over here. 9 minutes ago, OverSword said: And if you weren't being dense you would see my stand on anything like what would be found in a native site, which are not legal to dig anyway and I'm fine with that. Native relics are not old coins. No i don't accept your stand, why can't you dig native sites? this find wasn't just coins did you even read about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted November 25, 2019 #64 Share Posted November 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said: And they wouldn't be Treasure Trove over here. No i don't accept your stand, why can't you dig native sites? You can't dig native sites because 1. there are signed treaties against it, and 2. because they are of cultural significance, which as I've said at least five times are not the equivalent to a coin. Quote this find wasn't just coins did you even read about it? Yes. Did you? It was mainly coins with a few fragments of jewelry. Judging by the time they are from and the apparent quality of workmanship and materials they were absolutely not created by any Brit in the dark ages. People couldn't even read then and were leading a very hand to mouth existence in your part of the world. Maybe study up on Britain a couple hundred years after the Romans pulled out. It was a living hell of shortages and disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted November 25, 2019 #65 Share Posted November 25, 2019 (edited) 23 hours ago, Troublehalf said: So your comment on it being 'very English to find it fair' (which is a rather unfair comment, in my opinion) is quite amusing because compared to USA laws, it is fair. Since you get a reward of some sort. You don't in the USA. Since the law in the UK is specifically about ancient items, not items in the last decade. In any case, allowing items that were buried by ancient people to be sent around the world for personal profit to end up in private collections is a bit of a shame when the entire world can benefit by it ending up into a public museum. I'm pretty sure most cultures that have existed for thousands of years would object to their ancestors relics being sold off for profit (and it is just this that caused friction between Greece and Ottoman Empire/Turkey and UK). It's not like the finders in the UK would have gotten nothing to show for it. A hefty sum of money, appreciation from the archaeological and anthropological and historical societies AND a legacy in a museum exhibit they could show their kids and grand-kids and so on. As the judge said, greed. I think most people do it as a bit of a hobby and finding something like that is a dream. Turning it into purely about how much money you can make, when the sum you would have gotten would have been life-changing to most people irks many. I'm talking about old coins not cultural artifacts. See above, a close friend runs a rare coin shop here just outside of Seattle. He has a ton of roman coins and rings. Most coins would never be considered to be in museums not even the old ones. Coins and trinkets like rings and bracelets are generally not going to be considered of much cultural significance or extremely valuable works of art so them being in the hands of collectors basically keeps them out of the drawer in your kitchen where everything you never use or look at ends up. Edited November 25, 2019 by OverSword Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted November 25, 2019 #66 Share Posted November 25, 2019 1 hour ago, hetrodoxly said: I bet a £ to a muffin it's higher. I think you're right if it's a very large sum, like exceeding $50 million. People with that amount outwit the tax man by giving the inheritor control over the estate before they die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted November 25, 2019 #67 Share Posted November 25, 2019 45 minutes ago, OverSword said: You can't dig native sites because 1. there are signed treaties against it, and 2. because they are of cultural significance, which as I've said at least five times are not the equivalent to a coin. I don't believe you lot give in just like that, we dig native sites over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted November 25, 2019 #68 Share Posted November 25, 2019 1 minute ago, hetrodoxly said: I don't believe you lot give in just like that, we dig native sites over here. Your government doesn't have agreements in place with the natives to prevent that. But who gave in? We killed like 96% of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted November 25, 2019 #69 Share Posted November 25, 2019 49 minutes ago, OverSword said: You can't dig native sites because 1. there are signed treaties against it, and 2. because they are of cultural significance, which as I've said at least five times are not the equivalent to a coin. Yes. Did you? It was mainly coins with a few fragments of jewelry. Judging by the time they are from and the apparent quality of workmanship and materials they were absolutely not created by any Brit in the dark ages. People couldn't even read then and were leading a very hand to mouth existence in your part of the world. Maybe study up on Britain a couple hundred years after the Romans pulled out. It was a living hell of shortages and disease. You're just proving your ignorance, if you had anything worth digging up maybe you'd think differently, but somehow i doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted November 25, 2019 #70 Share Posted November 25, 2019 1 minute ago, OverSword said: Your government doesn't have agreements in place with the natives to prevent that. But who gave in? We killed like 96% of them. No we have our own laws that you think we should break, i think you should break yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted November 25, 2019 #71 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Just now, hetrodoxly said: You're just proving your ignorance So you keep saying without countering my arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted November 25, 2019 #72 Share Posted November 25, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said: No we have our own laws that you think we should break, i think you should break yours. Again misrepresenting anything I say. I said the law is unfair I never said break it. It seems from my point of view that what you do is defend it without considering if it's right or fair. Anyone who simply dismisses my points I don't believe is paying attention. Most certainly you are not. Edited November 25, 2019 by OverSword Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted November 25, 2019 #73 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Just now, OverSword said: So you keep saying without countering my arguments. Staffordshire hoard, all made in England, the Venerable Bede, i could go on and on but it would all be wasted on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted November 25, 2019 #74 Share Posted November 25, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said: Staffordshire hoard, all made in England, the Venerable Bede, i could go on and on but it would all be wasted on you. Great detail and spot on argument . Likely once again ignoring everything I've said about finds of cultural significance. Not surprising at all. edit: After looking up Staffordshire Hoard it's obvious that these are rare British pieces and not Roman, thus have nothing to do with what I was talking about. But please continue to respond without reading or considering. Edited November 25, 2019 by OverSword Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted November 25, 2019 #75 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Just now, OverSword said: Again misrepresenting anything I say. I said the law is unfair I never said break it. It seems from mu point of view that what you do is defend it without considering if it's right or fair. Anyone who simply dismisses my points I don't believe is paying attention. You've never said "sell it on the black market" "one at a time" "melt it down down" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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