Why call him a God?

[onlookerofmayhem]

14 minutes ago, jypsijemini said:

Water experiment: https://highexistence.com/water-experiment/

Plant experiment: https://dailytimes.com.pk/297417/the-science-behind-power-of-words-2/

While I haven't had time to go very deep  on either of these experiments, I'm not finding very promising reviews of the methodology used in either case.

There are some very critical issues with the way Masura Emoto conducted them.

I think this may need to have it's own topic as to not derail this thread any further.

Thanks for the links.

[Guyver]

1 hour ago, jypsijemini said:

That's like a child saying, "I know that Santa is real because I've seen him. I sat on his lap at the mall. He even visited my school. I wrote letters to him and sent them to the North Pole. He even sends me a little elf in December who moves around my house and makes sure I've been good. I've got countless books about Santa and even my mum and dad say he's real. Christmas is nothing without Santa. Almost everybody at my school believes in Santa too so he must be real. People who don't believe in Santa are just mistaken. They have no idea what they're talking about."

No, that’s not what it’s like.  But it seems that you would agree with Xenofish that people who have faith in God or religion are weak minded and inferior.  

[psyche101]

5 minutes ago, Guyver said:

No, that’s not what it’s like.  But it seems that you would agree with Xenofish that people who have faith in God or religion are weak minded and inferior.  

What is it like then?

Because with all due respect, it looks exactly how @jypsijemini described it. Nothing in the universe outside of human literature indicates a creator or god does, or even should exist. Church reminds me of the tea parties children have with imaginary friends.

[jypsijemini]

3 hours ago, Guyver said:

No, that’s not what it’s like.  But it seems that you would agree with Xenofish that people who have faith in God or religion are weak minded and inferior.  

Seems to you, maybe, but it isn't so. It takes a lot of dedication and commitment to hold onto any kind of faith.

I'd know. I was brought up in a Christian home. Christian relatives branching out in all directions of our family tree. Pastors, elders of the church - and my little nuclear family became overseas missionaries in Papua New Guinea. Attended a Christian primary school, rarely missed a Sunday Service (most were both day and night services). Baptised as an infant and again by my own decision as an adult. Wednesday night bible study groups. I led youth worship services. Went on evangelical youth ministry retreats and outreach programs. And my first year out of high school, I attended Bible College. I proudly proclaimed my faith in the way I presented myself (crosses all over my jewellery, a promise ring, WWJD bracelet and even a cross tattoo). I was everything a well-groomed Christian missionary kid should be. Read my bible, kept a prayer journal. You name it.

My current beliefs require just as much faith - but they're infinitely more convincing and fulfilling. To me, the only evidence I have for "spirituality" is the presence of and realness of Love. I don't attribute Love to any being or deity. I have no proof that such a thing exists. But Love exists. It is ever present. Every living thing responds to Love in a positive way. Love manifests miracles (which is why prayer works). Love unites everybody, regardless of belief systems and theologies.

As a Christian, I was full of fear, doubt, guilt and judgement. I believed that my belief was the only one that was real and everybody else was lost. Now - with the only thing guiding me being Love, I've realised that any person who honestly and humbly seeks Love is on the right path. Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists - everybody. We're all searching for the same thing, and it isn't the biblical Judeo-Christian GOD.

Now, I am free. I'm a hellavalot better at refraining from judging people (not perfect, just better). I understand more. I'm more accepting of others. I FEEL my faith. I receive signs, synchronicities and find meaning in the world in a way I didn't for twenty years. I'm an energy healer. I trust my intuition rather than searching for answers through Bible verses and prayer. I've had visions of the future (I accurately predicted a car accident that happened the next day the same way I'd seen in my vision and my ex breaking his ankle). I've helped people in their spiritual journeys whereas I always sought help and advice when I was a religious believer.

Again, I earnestly believe that every path brings us to the same place if we're searching for real, pure Love. There's no time limit or consequence for getting it wrong. We get another shot at it. We get as many attempts as we need in order to understand and become Love. That's REAL Love.

I still know that it takes effort, a strong heart and a strong mind to commit oneself to a belief. Nobody is inferior - even those who stumble through life with no designated purpose or drive or meaning. They're on their own journey. Their soul will eventually figure it out. Maybe not in this lifetime, maybe not even in the next. But we're all connected so the more that I commit myself to Love, the more that I shine brightly as a beacon of light and positivity, the more that I raise my vibration and consciousness, the more it benefits the rest of humanity and life itself. It's all energy. Nothing's "real". We're here just playing the Game of Love.

So if your beliefs are bringing you closer to love, peace, patience, gentleness, goodness, kindness, faithfulness and self control - keep going with it. Even if they're not, this is your journey and your path. I won't tell you that my way is right and yours is wrong. They're just as important to each of us.

Love and light, my friend.

[Alchopwn]

16 hours ago, Will Due said:

1 John 3:8, KJV: "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."Sin is deliberately and knowingly doing the wrong thing. Evil is doing the wrong thing by mistake. The devil led the way in many living their lives in doing whatever they want. From a place of authority what the devil did, was to suggest that God doesn't exist and that not doing God's will, bears no consequences.

I have read qualified theologians putting very different arguments about the delineation between sin and evil, and I dispute every part of your comment here.  Sin can be a great number of things and is in fact very poorly defined.  Evil however is consistent, purposeful and malignant behavior so common as to be considered a personality trait.  Or it can refer to an illness, minor or major.  Or a social problem, minor or major. Or it can be used to comment on someone's instagram meme. Sin and Evil are used without any scientific precision and as such are in danger of becoming meaningless as a result.  So don't come over all high and mighty and pretend that somehow your definition is the correct one.  There is no correct and recognised means of defining these terms, they have been used and abused clumsily for centuries by your co-religionists, and that ship has long sailed.

16 hours ago, Will Due said:

1 John 3:8, KJV: "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

Q.E.D.  I see nothing but your inclement and ill-informed rhetoric arguing that Jesus wasn't sent to destroy evil, and in that the evidence is abundant that he failed. I still see no ice giants.

 Thor 1 Jesus 0.

16 hours ago, Will Due said:

Jesus is defeating that suggestion.

This suggestion is teabagging the face of your suggestion for being lazy and childish.

16 hours ago, Will Due said:

He's doing it by leading those who are interested in co-operation, towards the doing of God's will. He's doing it by the way he lived his life while here on earth. Those who do the same thing as a public service, are destroying the devil. 

 What claptrap.  He died, and came back as a zombie then shambled off to Pakistan.  Incidentally, coming back from the dead is not kosher, and placed Jesus outside the covenant.  What Jesus did to Lazarus constituted a major blasphemy.  Similar, attacking people in their place of business, and utterly losing his cool is not acceptable.  Jesus died for his own sins, but he was useful to a certain fellow with considerable business acumen, who proceeded to sell his cult better than he ever could.  St Paul... More Jesus than Jesus. 

[jypsijemini]

1 hour ago, Alchopwn said:

Jesus died for his own sins, but he was useful to a certain fellow with considerable business acumen, who proceeded to sell his cult better than he ever could.  St Paul... More Jesus than Jesus. 

ERMERGERD

#1 Quote of 2019 "St Paul... More Jesus than Jesus"

Doesn't get any more accurate than this!

[+Desertrat56]

15 hours ago, Guyver said:

Because so many use it as a means of criticizing God.  God is bipolar, this that and the other....in fact - didn’t you do the same thing in post # 259?

Atheists don’t believe God exists, so the Bible has to be a bunch of fables and so forth anyway,  For an atheist to use the Bible to make criticisms about God seems like the poorest of tactics.  That so many people exist who actually believe the Bible and/or the religions based on them, gives them a point to criticize, especially around here, and I guess makes some of them feel theologically superior.  

I don’t care for it - maybe you do.

No, I never mentioned the bible in post 259.  You associate religion with the bible and did that yourself.  There is something you need to remember about me.  I do not Infer or allude to anything, I say what I mean and if there are too many words and you get confused, feel free to ask me questions.  If there are too few words or something you don't understand, do NOT add your picture of reality and claim I said something I did not.  Again, ask for clarification, ask, don't tell me what I said and claim anything based on what you think I said.

Some atheists actually read the bible in order to pick it apart, not all atheists, some.  And they are not wrong, because they read it for meaning, not just cherry picking phrases to support their delusion like religious people are taught to do.

Perhaps you think it is a poor tactic because you haven't read it or you haven't been indoctrinated into a religion that causes cognitive dissonance that leads you to need to prove anything to anyone in order to protect yourself and remove yourself from that dissonance.  As for anyone feeling theologically superior, that is their problem, not yours.  None of my business how someone feels about themselves unless they ask for help.  You are again projecting your perspectives onto someone else, someone you don't know except by words they write online.  Let it go, learn what you want and need for yourself and don't worry about others so much.

 

[+OverSword]

On 12/1/2019 at 12:50 AM, Alchopwn said:

So what you are suggesting then is that God is malevolent and supports evil, and that is why Jesus lost?

No.  If you got that from what I said you really use your imagination to fill in what you want to hear. It’s a pretty impressive leap actually.

[danydandan]

15 minutes ago, OverSword said:

No.  If you got that from what I said you really use your imagination to fill in what you want to hear. It’s a pretty impressive leap actually.

Not sure if it's impressive....... it's strange actually.

[+OverSword]

6 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Not sure if it's impressive....... it's strange actually.

I was being nice. You should have seen what I deleted 

[Duke Wellington]

13 hours ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

While I haven't had time to go very deep  on either of these experiments, I'm not finding very promising reviews of the methodology used in either case.

There are some very critical issues with the way Masura Emoto conducted them.

I think this may need to have it's own topic as to not derail this thread any further.

Thanks for the links.

Here is an even better experiment to try.

Note down all your negative thoughts over the course of an hour. You have to be really, really, honest with yourself about everything. I say that because your natural tendency will be to lie and distort many of them away instead of being honest with yourself. With each one add a few lines what its related too.

Now in your hour of noting down your negative thoughts we would have collected your usual negative thinking patterns that occur everyday. If you are honest with yourself you will recognise they preoccupy most of your waking time bubbling around in the back of your mind.

Lets pretend reality is like a squared piece of maths paper. Now, each square isn't totally identical to each other as regards their contents. But many things that exist in one square also exist in the others. Lets pass onto you a perception of why that occurs - there is a hidden structure buried within the fabric of reality causing what is here to also be over there.

Lets go back to your list of negative thoughts and ask why you haven't moved on from them? Is it because they represent a recurring theme thats outside your influence and which keeps occurring in your life? Is reality conspiring against you? Does it know what irritates the hell out of you? Does it keep sending the same experiences your way to troll you?

Lets draw some big squares and put your list of negative thoughts into one of them. Those negative thoughts via the hidden structured buried within the fabric of reality are shaping what happens else where in reality to bring into your life the very things that do your head in.

In religion the advise to `let go and move on` has more sense behind it than you realise. The same applies for being compassionate towards others, knowing when and when not to draw your sword, and when to take negative interactions with others on the chin.

You have to move on from the negativity that bubbles around in the back of your mind because other wise it will shape the experiences which enter into your life to continue on that very negativity. We have to choose our mental noise and obsessions carefully so as to create the reality we actually want.

[Crazy Horse]

On 11/30/2019 at 9:58 PM, OverSword said:

Because none of the good scary stuff you need to really control people could be attributed to the words of Jesus but the tora is jam packed full of them. That is also why a letter written to specific people during a specific time was named revelation and tacked on at the end. To scare people into obedience.

Well that's what I've been saying, more or less anyway....

To my mind, Jesus was a rebel who wasn't very keen on the established Religious Class, and who provoked them into acting against Him?

The rabbis of the time had the Law of the Prophets, and Jesus said, "I know, I am" etc. The old laws could be twisted to suit the occasion, Jesus couldn't.

 

[Crazy Horse]

23 hours ago, danydandan said:

That's a white wash answer. I was hoping for something more in-depth.

If you want something more in-depth, then ask a more specific question.

[+OverSword]

@Mello_ What are you confused by?

[Guyver]

9 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

No, I never mentioned the bible in post 259.  You associate religion with the bible and did that yourself.  There is something you need to remember about me.  I do not Infer or allude to anything, I say what I mean and if there are too many words and you get confused, feel free to ask me questions.  If there are too few words or something you don't understand, do NOT add your picture of reality and claim I said something I did not.  Again, ask for clarification, ask, don't tell me what I said and claim anything based on what you think I said.

Some atheists actually read the bible in order to pick it apart, not all atheists, some.  And they are not wrong, because they read it for meaning, not just cherry picking phrases to support their delusion like religious people are taught to do.

Perhaps you think it is a poor tactic because you haven't read it or you haven't been indoctrinated into a religion that causes cognitive dissonance that leads you to need to prove anything to anyone in order to protect yourself and remove yourself from that dissonance.  As for anyone feeling theologically superior, that is their problem, not yours.  None of my business how someone feels about themselves unless they ask for help.  You are again projecting your perspectives onto someone else, someone you don't know except by words they write online.  Let it go, learn what you want and need for yourself and don't worry about others so much.

 

Well said.

Yes, I must have read into what you said.  When you said God was bipolar or whatever, I assumed you meant the God of the Bible.  That is a common criticism that many people make, including myself.  There is an obvious contradiction between God as presented in the OT, and the “God of love and peace” of the New.

[Guyver]

Dear Jypsijemini, thank you for your post #279, and especially your benediction.  I appreciate that.  I appreciate that you shared your experience so in depth, and I think we are similar in our backgrounds in many ways.  I guess that’s about all I have to say, we obviously got off on the wrong foot as I took some offense in your initial comment.

[Guyver]

19 hours ago, psyche101 said:

What is it like then?

Because with all due respect, it looks exactly how @jypsijemini described it. Nothing in the universe outside of human literature indicates a creator or god does, or even should exist. Church reminds me of the tea parties children have with imaginary friends.

Yes, I understand that is how you view things.  In light of that, it doesn’t do me any good to go into details about it.  So, I will say that I embrace no religions of the world....but I do find some aspects of Buddhism quite worthy of contemplation and even practice.  

What is different about the way I believe and the way a child believes in Santa Claus is....just about everything.  Firstly, I am no child.  I’m a full grown, educated man with decades of life experience.  And frankly, I find it insulting that my beliefs are compared to a child’s belief in Santa.  And for that, I award those who would say such things no points and would even go so far as to offer one demerit for even saying or agreeing with such nonsense.

i believe what I do because I have had experiences that confirm the things I believe, these experiences are very fundamental to my belief, and many of them are the type that you - as a Materialist, would not be able to accept, and must dismiss as fallacious  just on general principle.

[+Sherapy]

20 hours ago, Guyver said:

No, that’s not what it’s like.  But it seems that you would agree with Xenofish that people who have faith in God or religion are weak minded and inferior.  

I am an Agnostic now, but when I was an Atheist I did not think you are weak minded or inferior for believing in god. In fact, I have had many conversations  with you over the years and you were then and are now an intelligent interesting well versed man. 
Many are  inspired by your path and you are one of the noblest most gracious and humble posters who many enjoy reading and talking to, because of your grace.


Maybe you are having a bad day?
 

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Sherapy

[Guyver]

19 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I am an Agnostic now, but when I was an Atheist I did not think you are weak minded or inferior for believing in god. In fact, I have had many conversations  with you over the years and you were then and are now an intelligent interesting well versed man. 
Many are  inspired by your path and you are one of the noblest most gracious and humble posters who many enjoy reading and talking to, because of your grace.


Maybe you are having a bad day?
 

 

First of all, thank you.  You are gracious and what you said was very uplifting.  I appreciate it.

Yes, I could have been having a bad day, and probably was when I first posted in this thread.  I must admit that certain people on this forum annoy me because of their methods, tactics, and incessant “thread derailment” tactics.  Among other things... but it is no matter.  

When I listen to someone as intelligent, considerate, and thoughtful as yourself, it makes me realize that we have all kinds here, everyone has their issues....and maybe being more like you would make me enjoy this place a little more.

[+Sherapy]

6 minutes ago, Guyver said:

First of all, thank you.  You are gracious and what you said was very uplifting.  I appreciate it.

Yes, I could have been having a bad day, and probably was when I first posted in this thread.  I must admit that certain people on this forum annoy me because of their methods, tactics, and incessant “thread derailment” tactics.  Among other things... but it is no matter.  

When I listen to someone as intelligent, considerate, and thoughtful as yourself, it makes me realize that we have all kinds here, everyone has their issues....and maybe being more like you would make me enjoy this place a little more.

Well, believe me there would be some who don’t find me so charming too. 

 

Great point, we have all kinds here and you actually make a great point for the ones that annoy me or vice versa, at the end of the day we are human.

Guyv, you gotta stay and keep sharing  your faith and know that I read your posts, I find them worthwhile and wise, always have. 
 

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Sherapy

[+Hammerclaw]

One has to pull back and realize one's position in a larger world of people and judge each by their personal merits, not necessarily by their beliefs. Jesus sad he would dine in any house were he was made welcome. The religious should follow that example, stay true to themselves and shake the dust off their feet of anyone who tasks them or openly offends them for their belief. You will find the essence of divinity in more than one who professes no Faith. The God you worship would be wise enough to know his own.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Hammerclaw

[onlookerofmayhem]

8 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

You have to move on from the negativity that bubbles around in the back of your mind because other wise it will shape the experiences which enter into your life to continue on that very negativity.

I'm not sure what any of your post has to do with my initial criticism of the aforementioned experiments. 

I respectfully disagree with your evaluation that I need to "move on from the negativity."

You have no clue who I am and what my life is like to base your judgement except for what I have posted on this website. And I feel I've never been drastically negative in any of the posts I've made. I'm all for open and respectful discussion. 

[+Sherapy]

31 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

I'm not sure what any of your post has to do with my initial criticism of the aforementioned experiments. 

I respectfully disagree with your evaluation that I need to "move on from the negativity."

You have no clue who I am and what my life is like to base your judgement except for what I have posted on this website. And I feel I've never been drastically negative in any of the posts I've made. I'm all for open and respectful discussion. 

Indeed, You are not negative at all. 
 

 

[+Sherapy]

38 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

One has to pull back and realize one's position in a larger world of people and judge each by their personal merits, not necessarily by their beliefs. Jesus sad he would dine in any house were he was made welcome. The religious should follow that example, stay true to themselves and shake the dust off their feet of anyone who tasks them or openly offends them for their belief. You will find the essence of divinity in more than one who professes no Faith. The God you worship would be wise enough to know his own.

Indeed, I have a dialogue with the poster, go from there faith or lack there of is immaterial in communing with others from all walks of life.

 

[psyche101]

2 hours ago, Guyver said:

Yes, I understand that is how you view things.  In light of that, it doesn’t do me any good to go into details about it.  

Then I don't think you should be offended. Im not being dismissive, I genuinely find it incredible that people maintain such beliefs into adulthood.

Quote

So, I will say that I embrace no religions of the world....but I do find some aspects of Buddhism quite worthy of contemplation and even practice.  

Even as an atheist I can appreciate the meditative side of Buddhism.

Quote

What is different about the way I believe and the way a child believes in Santa Claus is....just about everything.  Firstly, I am no child.  I’m a full grown, educated man with decades of life experience.  And frankly, I find it insulting that my beliefs are compared to a child’s belief in Santa.  

They are not answers or reasons though. This is where people like Xeno and I have to step away. You are saying, how dare one question your judgement really, that's what the adult references are there. They are not reasoning, that a tantrum.

I would be insulting myself to allow something that literally had the same evidence for Santa (human literature only) to have influence in my life, in resulting decisions.

Quote

And for that, I award those who would say such things no points and would even go so far as to offer one demerit for even saying or agreeing with such nonsense.

I'm a grown man with a good career, two fantastic children and a half decent education. I see the God concept in total reverse to you. As an example, we have all heard about Scientology, the crazy Xenu story and the stupid claims that go with that. Tom Cruise has said the Scientologists are better people. Do you believe that? Or that he isn't lying his backside off to you when he says he believes it? Or Thor, do you really think has hammer makes thunder?

It's more like that.

Quote

i believe what I do because I have had experiences that confirm the things I believe, these experiences are very fundamental to my belief, and many of them are the type that you - as a Materialist, would not be able to accept, and must dismiss as fallacious  just on general principle.

I know the sciences are not wrong. If there is something actually happening beyond all reasonable inquiry's,then there simply has to be a different answer. You have settled on a specific interpretation of any such events. Others not agreeing with those interpretations does not amount to an inability to accept. It's a more rational view.