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Mello_

Why call him a God?

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Piney
1 minute ago, Crazy Horse said:

What became the OT wasn't even correlated into the OT at the time of Jesus. much like the NT!!!

Really? :rolleyes:

2 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

So does anyone know why the two were tacked together?

Christianity started out as a fringe sect of Judaism.

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Crazy Horse
5 hours ago, RAyMO said:

IMO it was written by the landed gentry to cement their ownership of land in Israel, and to keep the plebs in their place.

The priesthood and the Roman Empire, conspired to keep the plebs in place. Each getting "fat of the land." Without lifting a finger.

Funny thing is, nothing much has changed in this respect.

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Crazy Horse
3 minutes ago, Piney said:

Really? :rolleyes:

Christianity started out as a fringe sect of Judaism.

Yes, Judaism at that time was a bunch of books that afterwards got whittled down to what became the OT.

And much like the NT was selected from lots of different books, the "losers" becoming heretics.

Perhaps Christ saw His teachings as a continuation of Judaism, but the establishment certainly didn't.....as far as I can see!

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Piney

 

8 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Yes, Judaism at that time was a bunch of books that afterwards got whittled down to what became the OT.

And much like the NT was selected from lots of different books, the "losers" becoming heretics.

Perhaps Christ saw His teachings as a continuation of Judaism, but the establishment certainly didn't.....as far as I can see!

You don't read much of my religious posts do you?  

Your talking to a Quaker seminarian who was the grandson and nephew of 3 Oxford seminarians. 

.......so just what are you trying to teach me? 

The historical Jesus didn't see "his teachings" as anything.  He was a gibbering idiot who just screamed doomsday woes around Jerusalem and was flattened with a rock for his efforts. 

 

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Festina
31 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

The priesthood and the Roman Empire, conspired to keep the plebs in place. Each getting "fat of the land." Without lifting a finger.

Funny thing is, nothing much has changed in this respect.

There were two groups of people’s in the Roman Empire at the advent of “Christianity” — Jews and non Jews. 

The so called priesthood — it’s funny peculiar how no one observes the obvious.  The Abrahamic’s are a collective and political allies as well.

Israel - Judaism

The United States  - Christianity 

Saudi Arabia - Islam 

Feeling a bit uncomfortable?  Good.  I love your posts.   

 

Edited by Festina Lente

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Piney
2 minutes ago, Festina Lente said:

Israel - Judaism

The United States  - Christianity 

Saudi Arabia - Islam 

Feeling a bit uncomfortable? 

Why? In the great scheme of the world these 3 dirtball countries don't matter. :lol:

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Crazy Horse
16 minutes ago, Piney said:

 

You don't read much of my religious posts do you?  

Your talking to a Quaker seminarian who was the grandson and nephew of 3 Oxford seminarians. 

.......so just what are you trying to teach me? 

The historical Jesus didn't see "his teachings" as anything.  He was a gibbering idiot who just screamed doomsday woes around Jerusalem and was flattened with a rock for his efforts. 

 

You are right. I didn't read many of your religious posts - and now I know why!

Is that how all Quakers see Jesus?

 

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Piney
Just now, Crazy Horse said:

Is that how all Quakers see Jesus?

I'm "non-theistic". I'm just in it because I was born into it through my mother and I like the humanitarian aid part. 

My Shaman paternal grandfather made me go to their religious school because of "Know thy enemy".  I was raised to be a Shaman but that is horse**** too. 

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Crazy Horse
9 minutes ago, Festina Lente said:

There were two groups of people’s in the Roman Empire at the advent of “Christianity” — Jews and non Jews. 

The so called priesthood — it’s funny peculiar how no one observes the obvious.  The Abrahamic’s are a collective and political allies as well.

Israel - Judaism

The United States  - Christianity 

Saudi Arabia - Islam 

Feeling a bit uncomfortable?  Good.  I love your posts.   

 

Not so much uncomfortable.....just a little confused lol.

Please explain.

Are you saying this is a big conspiracy?

 

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Crazy Horse
2 minutes ago, Piney said:

I'm "non-theistic". I'm just in it because I was born into it through my mother and I like the humanitarian aid part. 

My Shaman paternal grandfather made me go to their religious school because of "Know thy enemy".  I was raised to be a Shaman but that is horse**** too. 

Hay - a good person is a good person no-matter their beliefs.

But, "Know thy enemy" is a new one to me, I always thought is was Know thy-self". Sheesh, shows what I know...

But seriously Piney, why do you say shamanism is HS? I am interested.

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Piney
1 minute ago, Crazy Horse said:

But seriously Piney, why do you say shamanism is HS? I am interested.

It has to do with lying to someone to manipulate their minds.

That's why I'm Tendai. It's Zen with Taoism, the ultimate B.S. filter. 

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Crazy Horse
2 minutes ago, Piney said:

It has to do with lying to someone to manipulate their minds.

That's why I'm Tendai. It's Zen with Taoism, the ultimate B.S. filter. 

Ok, I am from England, and shamans are a bit thin on the ground right now, something to do with the Catholic Church, but that's another story.

But, I always thought that shamans where there to help their community, in hunting and healing and stuff? Am I wrong?

Anyway - would you mind explaining Tendai a little bit? Zen and Taoism I can relate to, to a point.

I am always interested in other folks beliefs and why they go with a certain ideal?

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Piney
2 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

But, I always thought that shamans where there to help their community, in hunting and healing and stuff? Am I wrong?

The type I was trained to be was more like a "policeman-enforcer" who made and handled sacred objects and "bad things",not a healer, and it's no longer needed. 

Read the Hua Hu Ching translated by Brian Walker. You get a grasp on how I think. 

 

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Crazy Horse
Just now, Piney said:

The type I was trained to be was more like a "policeman-enforcer" who made and handled sacred objects and "bad things",not a healer, and it's no longer needed. 

Read the Hua Hu Ching translated by Brian Walker. You get a grasp on how I think. 

 

Mate, I will put it on my reading list, but until then, please give me a taste, a little insight as to what your philosophy is!

I am genuinely interested in other folks beliefs.

We are on a forum, we have a chance to chat and exchange ideas right now...

Thanks.

 

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Piney
23 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Mate, I will put it on my reading list, but until then, please give me a taste, a little insight as to what your philosophy is!

 

"All religion is a distortion". 

There are no gods, angels, demons or even nature spirits. Just a Living Universe and the spiritual energy which pervades it. 

Any philosophy about those beings and the rules they set comes directly from someones mind. 

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onlookerofmayhem
3 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Well perhaps you could have told me if I had made a false assertion, or something.

Just to remind you. Folks on here have been quick to blame God for the state of the planet, whereas I have put the blame onto mankind. (making bad choices through greed and jealousy etc).

And by blame I mean, the reasons for poverty, war, and the environmental destruction of our beautiful planet.

If there is a false dilemma there, then please explain.

The false dilemma was saying either this OR that can happen. There are many more options than the two you proposed. 

I only blame god on the state of the world IF it actually exists. 

As it stands now, I totally agree that the ills of the world are solely mankind's cross to bear.

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Crazy Horse
6 minutes ago, Piney said:

"All religion is a distortion". 

There are no gods, angels, demons or even nature spirits. Just a Living Universe and the spiritual energy which pervades it. 

Any philosophy about those beings and the rules they set comes directly from someones mind. 

Fair enough, and I agree, (I think) that any thought is a distortion, but then we are going deep....

So before that, what is Tendai, and why even "follow" it, if what you just wrote is true?

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Piney
1 minute ago, Crazy Horse said:

So before that, what is Tendai, and why even "follow" it, if what you just wrote is true?

It's oversimplified Zen Buddhism. No deities involved.  But since I'm a "sword monk" my practice is my meditation. 

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Crazy Horse
3 minutes ago, Piney said:

It's oversimplified Zen Buddhism. No deities involved  But since I'm a "sword monk" my practice is my meditation. 

OK Dude, "Sword Monk" what the heck is that?

I understand "my practice is my meditation", I am the same. 

But Piney, I too practice Buddhism, but, I really think they are missing a trick when it comes to God, like pray dude, and know the truth for your-Self.

 

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Piney
Just now, Crazy Horse said:

But Piney, I too practice Buddhism, but, I really think they are missing a trick when it comes to God, like pray dude, and know the truth for your-Self.

In Japanese and Algonquian theology you do not "pray" to the Living Universe. Just acknowledge it. The Living Universe is too vast to care about a speck like us and to worship it would be "self worship" because we are part of it. 

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Crazy Horse
1 minute ago, Piney said:

In Japanese and Algonquian theology you do not "pray" to the Living Universe. Just acknowledge it. The Living Universe is too vast to care about a speck like us and to worship it would be "self worship" because we are part of it. 

OK, that's interesting.

In my view, the universe is too vast not to care about us. Like, how everything grows is through assimilation, understanding, and service. A give and a take...the more we give....

And for what its worth, I don't worship anything. I give thanks and a massive amount of gratitude, so, "self worship" becomes, self love and kindness. 

Surely the first step in human evolution?

 

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danydandan
11 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

You are right. I didn't read many of your religious posts - and now I know why!

Is that how all Quakers see Jesus?

 

That's how anyone who actually does some unbiased research see's Jesus. 

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danydandan
9 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

In my view, the universe is too vast not to care about us. Like, how everything grows is through assimilation, understanding, and service. A give and a take...the more we give....

Why do you think this? 

9 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

And for what its worth, I don't worship anything. I give thanks and a massive amount of gratitude, so, "self worship" becomes, self love and kindness. 

Surely the first step in human evolution?

Why do you do this and why do you think that?

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Alchopwn
15 hours ago, OverSword said:

Just when did Jesus promise to rid the world of evil?  That’s bull.

1 John 3:8

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Mr Walker
On 11/27/2019 at 7:05 AM, Mello_ said:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

Epicurus, circa 250 BC

I want to hear Christians about this quote.

The topics been done to death many times before

i will say just one thing 

the entity we call god is real and physical 

The name god is one humans give it not what it calls itself 

being a real, physical, evolved species, means that it is not omnipotent, omniscient, nor omnipresent, although, given its abilty and technologies, it might come close 

It watches over us as we evolve, and tries to help us, as individuals, and a species 

BUT humans(and all other evolving sentient species around the galaxy)  MUST evolve safe practice for themselves. It cannot be imposed or forced upon us. 

Why? because values and behaviours mus t be internalised and come from  within, not be imposed from without .

why? Because  only then will we act with integrity all the time. Not requiring rules, regulations, laws or punishments to MAKE us behave,  but being mature and wise enough to know what is right, and having the discipline and skills to always chose the constructive (right)  option 

Only once we evolve this abilty and mature as a species will  we be allowed to join the many species inhabiting the stars in peaceful coexistence 

Imagine a warlike and dangerous species like us as we are now, if we were allowed to take those qualities out among the stars, possessing powerful weapons (even if those weapons  are a joke compared with the technologies of advanced races ) There are plenty of evolving, but  still primitive, species on other planets, and a species like us will not be allowed to contact them, and perhaps try to make war on them or colonise their worlds. once we achieve interstellar travel and the weapons which will go with that.

It works the other way too. We are protected (by embargo ) from newly  emergent space travelling  species  and they are prevented from  travelling outside their local system (or local space depending on how close they are to other emerging species)  until they are safe to do so.  

Thats why "god" does not intervene, even where it has the power to do so. It tries to help and educate, but allows our evolution to occur naturally, and hopes we will survive our adolescence as a species, and become wise and disciplined.  

get it ?

"good"  can not be imposed from without. It is a quality we must develop and maintain in ourselves.

We are free to choose good or evil and our choice defines us as individuals and as a species.

Only we, not "god" allow evil to exist.

We could eliminate it overnight by choosing always to think and act constructively.   Our destiny/future, both as individuals and as a species, is in OUR hands, and no one  else's We will be allowed to destroy ourselves,  if that is our choice, but not to harm species from other planets, who also must make the same choices, as the y mature.     

Edited by Mr Walker

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