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Crazy Horse

Jesus Today

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lightly
6 hours ago, psyche101 said:

What exactly is 'not physical' except thought? And even that relies on the physical to exist.

It's fine to think about other answers, but there needs to be more than 'what if'. An open ended musing is just that and nothing more. If you propose something beyond the physical then you need to also propose exactly what that term is referring to.

I'm not proposing anything psyche, I just asked.."what if"...I don't need to do anything.   I'm not claiming and do not know if immortality is a reality. The word mortality means "subject to death" . .IM mortality means...not subject to death.

  (I'm sure this is a painful subject for you to discuss now...I'm very sorry for your loss...I know what it's like)

 I'm actually very surprised that you say thought is not physical !  and would tend to agree that it arises from physical processes.

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lightly
5 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Here are the different forms of energy;

http://vikaspedia.in/energy/energy-basics/forms-of-energy

Consciousness isn't one of them.  Conscious awareness is a group of brain functions that requires energy to operate.

Ok ...    So, an interruption in energy would result in an interruption in consciousness.. Ah , thanks for the clarification .  :rolleyes:

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lightly
7 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Here are the different forms of energy;

http://vikaspedia.in/energy/energy-basics/forms-of-energy

Consciousness isn't one of them.  Conscious awareness is a group of brain functions that requires energy to operate.

I was just thinking... Using that reasoning ,sunlight isn't energy either, because it's not on that list.   But, because photons are created by nuclear fusion at the sun's core, and ,eventually, emitted as electromagnetic radiation, sunlight requires energy to operate.

 . . . and somewhere between energy and consciousness energy changes from energy to concsciousness..  Uhhuh.

       Ooooops!  I see I made a mistake!  Sunlight/Solar radiation IS on that list under Thermal Energy.

my bad, sorry Rlyeh.   And thanks for your help.

Edited by lightly

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Guyver
On 12/15/2019 at 1:20 PM, Crazy Horse said:

Forgive me if I am misguided but I thought Revelation, or the Apocalypse, will be an unveiling of the truth, and a dying of the old, corrupt world?

I've tried reading the Bible but it leaves me cold.

Better to live your own gospel.

And share.

I suppose you could say it that way.....but the “dying” of the old corrupt world as described in the Revelation, or the Apocalypse of John as it is sometimes called is all about an angry God coming back to kill everyone who’s not Christian and placing them in a giant lake of fire to be tormented forever with the devil and the antichrist.

And even those people who call themselves Christian, or even consider themselves Christian but who are “lukewarm” about their faith will be included in this large number of rejected people.

This stands in stark contrast to the words of Jesus of the Gospels who claimed that everyone who believes in him has eternal life and will never be rejected.

The entire thing is a giant hot mess in my opinion.  FWIW.

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Rlyeh
2 hours ago, lightly said:

Ok ...    So, an interruption in energy would result in an interruption in consciousness.. Ah , thanks for the clarification .  :rolleyes:

How did you get that?  An interruption in brain functions that regulate consciousness would affect consciousness that's just obvious.

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Desertrat56
9 hours ago, psyche101 said:

What exactly is 'not physical' except thought? And even that relies on the physical to exist.

It's fine to think about other answers, but there needs to be more than 'what if'. An open ended musing is just that and nothing more. If you propose something beyond the physical then you need to also propose exactly what that term is referring to.

But see, that it the thing, we don't know if thought relies on the physical or not as currently we are in physical bodies with a very limited perspective of what is real and what isn't.  AND people think things that are not proven or experienced in this current physical reality all the time.  So you don't know what thought relies on.

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Rlyeh
12 minutes ago, lightly said:

I was just thinking... Using that reasoning ,sunlight isn't energy either, because it's not on that list.   But, because photons are created by nuclear fusion at the sun's core, and ,eventually, emitted as electromagnetic radiation, sunlight requires energy to operate.

 . . . and somewhere between energy and consciousness energy changes from energy to concsciousness..  Uhhuh.

       Ooooops!  I see I made a mistake!  Sunlight/Solar radiation IS on that list under Thermal Energy.

my bad, sorry Rlyeh.   And thanks for your help.

It's briefly mentioned as 'light energy'.

The Sun also uses gravitational, thermal and nuclear energy to produce light.

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lightly
13 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

It's briefly mentioned as 'light energy'.

The Sun also uses gravitational, thermal and nuclear energy to produce light.

Hmm, yup, gravitational (as in field/intense pressure?)...and nuclear (as in fusion). .but, wouldn't thermal energy be a bi product or result of sunlight rather than a source?

Edited by lightly

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Rlyeh
7 minutes ago, lightly said:

Hmm, yup, gravitational (as in field/intense pressure?)...and nuclear (as in fusion). .but, wouldn't thermal energy be a bi product or result of sunlight rather than a source?

Thermal energy would be the atoms being compressed so tightly and from fusion.  Heat doesn't travel through a vacuum so the Sun's heat we receive is actually light.

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Desertrat56

Interesting thread drift.

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Crazy Horse
8 hours ago, Guyver said:

I suppose you could say it that way.....but the “dying” of the old corrupt world as described in the Revelation, or the Apocalypse of John as it is sometimes called is all about an angry God coming back to kill everyone who’s not Christian and placing them in a giant lake of fire to be tormented forever with the devil and the antichrist.

And even those people who call themselves Christian, or even consider themselves Christian but who are “lukewarm” about their faith will be included in this large number of rejected people.

This stands in stark contrast to the words of Jesus of the Gospels who claimed that everyone who believes in him has eternal life and will never be rejected.

The entire thing is a giant hot mess in my opinion.  FWIW.

Thanks.

I never knew that Revelations was about an angry god, having a temper tantrum!!

A hot mess maybe, but a way out too.

 

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Crazy Horse
16 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

The so-called independent board who reviewed his experiment were TM practitioners.

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=xzCK6-Kqs6QC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA28#v=onepage&q&f=false

The answer is he cherry picked the data.

Well, if he cherry picked the data in one biased way, perhaps you could cherry pick the alternative data and evidence, to try and put together a counter argument?

 

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Crazy Horse
12 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

I think you credit Jesus with more charisma and more powers than he actually possessed.  You should read what the Mandaeans have to say about him.  I think you learn more about people from their critics than you do by asking their friends.

That might be true about the Old Jesus, but I am talking about Jesus Today?

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Crazy Horse
18 hours ago, psyche101 said:

What happened to in your own words?

When can I expect comments on the video I left you?

In my own words!

I thought the video was about the power of mind over matter.

I thought it was a message of hope in a world of nay-sayers, and negative ninnies....

What did you think it was about? 

 

 

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Crazy Horse
9 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

How did you get that?  An interruption in brain functions that regulate consciousness would affect consciousness that's just obvious.

Like when you smash-up a big old radio. eventually. the music fades...

But the radio waves are still there.

Consciousness survives the brain, that much is just obvious!

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Desertrat56
1 minute ago, Crazy Horse said:

Like when you smash-up a big old radio. eventually. the music fades...

But the radio waves are still there.

Consciousness survives the brain, that much is just obvious!

I agree with this analogy but It obviously is not obvious or you would not have this discussion with anyone.  Everyone would agree.  It is a model of how consciousness works, your model.  Others have a different model that includes the idea that consciousness resides in the brain and ceases to exist when the brain dies.  It is an old debate with no proof either way until we die.

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Crazy Horse
4 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I agree with this analogy but It obviously is not obvious or you would not have this discussion with anyone.  Everyone would agree.  It is a model of how consciousness works, your model.  Others have a different model that includes the idea that consciousness resides in the brain and ceases to exist when the brain dies.  It is an old debate with no proof either way until we die.

Fair enough.

I was being a little too free with my truth, thanks.

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psyche101
12 hours ago, lightly said:

I'm not proposing anything psyche, I just asked.."what if"...I don't need to do anything.   I'm not claiming and do not know if immortality is a reality. The word mortality means "subject to death" . .IM mortality means...not subject to death.

In the interest of discussion I think you do, because you proposed the idea. I'm not saying prove anything.. yet ... I'm saying what exactly are you referring to when you say 'non physical' . I don't mean it offensively or aggressively. Had I said the Woomeranagga  is a much better answer again, similarly, you would ask what the heck is a Woomeranagga.

So what actually is a non physical medium? Kooks bandy the term about as if it's an acknowledged place dimension or substance, but then refer to all three and more as both  simultaneous and seperate.

So what I'm asking is when you say non physical, what exactly do you mean?

Quote

  (I'm sure this is a painful subject for you to discuss now...I'm very sorry for your loss...I know what it's like)

Thank you I appreciate that. He was a great personality. I will miss him like crazy 

Quote

 I'm actually very surprised that you say thought is not physical !  and would tend to agree that it arises from physical processes.

It's chemical/electrical in nature, which to my mind makes it physical. It can be seen, measured and verified. Last year we managed to film a thought in the brain of a mouse being chemically stored. That's direct evidence.

Edited by psyche101
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psyche101
9 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

But see, that it the thing, we don't know if thought relies on the physical or not as currently we are in physical bodies with a very limited perspective of what is real and what isn't.  AND people think things that are not proven or experienced in this current physical reality all the time.  So you don't know what thought relies on.

Of course we do. Where are you getting this from this from?

Have you ever seen or read about a patient with brain damage or a lobotomy?

We know how to control and treat certain thought patterns.

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Desertrat56
16 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Of course we do. Where are you getting this from this from?

Have you ever seen or read about a patient with brain damage or a lobotomy?

We know how to control and treat certain thought patterns.

You  might, but I don't and I am not alone.  We know how to control certain things in the brain electrically and chemically but we don't know how consciousness really works or where it comes from.  Conrolling and treating certain thought patterns is not controlling consciousness.  If you love science then you know there is always more to learn about the universe and ourselves. 

https://qz.com/866352/scientists-say-your-mind-isnt-confined-to-your-brain-or-even-your-body/

Quote

No doubt, the brain plays an incredibly important role. But our mind cannot be confined to what’s inside our skull, or even our body, according to a definition first put forward by Dan Siegel, a professor of psychiatry at UCLA School of Medicine and the author of a recently published book,

Mind: A Journey to the Heart of Being Human.

He first came up with the definition more than two decades ago, at a meeting of 40 scientists across disciplines, including neuroscientists, physicists, sociologists, and anthropologists. The aim was to come to an understanding of the mind that would appeal to common ground and satisfy those wrestling with the question across these fields.

 

https://uncommondescent.com/neuroscience/neuroscientist-consciousness-is-theology-not-neurology/

 

Another way of looking at the question would be, is the problem one that science can resolve? Isn’t asking about the nature of consciousness a bit like asking whether mathematics represents something real or “Did mathematics evolve?” Such questions are not necessarily misconceptions but the tools of science are not helpful for addressing them.

That's just a sample. 

Edited by Desertrat56
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psyche101
46 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

In my own words!

I thought the video was about the power of mind over matter.

I thought it was a message of hope in a world of nay-sayers, and negative ninnies....

What did you think it was about? 

You certainly have an extra tint on those rose coloured glasses don't you.

The video is mindless unsupported prattle. Where are these results verified? Who are the parties? 

It's as bad as PGs biased meter!

I would say that's why every real theoretical physicist on the planet disagrees with him and says his research is nonsense?

The so called paper was entered in a self publishing journal. It's not peer reviewed, it's not accepted by anyone else with real qualifications.

Why do posters like you spend so much time searching for fringe kooks that buck the system rather than following the leading edge of knowledge and actually learning something?

John Hagelin a s not a well respected scientific community contributor or active member. He hasn't been a scientist since 1982. He is the leader of the Transcendental Meditation movement in the United States and president of the Maharishi University of Management in Fairfield, Iowa, and honorary chair of its board of trustees. The university was established in 1973 by the movement's founder, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, to deliver a "consciousness based education". It's nothing like a scientific institution. It's a kook retreat.

Now back to my video...... What did you think that was about?

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Crazy Horse
5 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

You certainly have an extra tint on those rose coloured glasses don't you.

The video is mindless unsupported prattle. Where are these results verified? Who are the parties? 

It's as bad as PGs biased meter!

I would say that's why every real theoretical physicist on the planet disagrees with him and says his research is nonsense?

The so called paper was entered in a self publishing journal. It's not peer reviewed, it's not accepted by anyone else with real qualifications.

Why do posters like you spend so much time searching for fringe kooks that buck the system rather than following the leading edge of knowledge and actually learning something?

John Hagelin a s not a well respected scientific community contributor or active member. He hasn't been a scientist since 1982. He is the leader of the Transcendental Meditation movement in the United States and president of the Maharishi University of Management in Fairfield, Iowa, and honorary chair of its board of trustees. The university was established in 1973 by the movement's founder, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, to deliver a "consciousness based education". It's nothing like a scientific institution. It's a kook retreat.

Now back to my video...... What did you think that was about?

OK, time to ring the bell...

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psyche101
11 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

You  might, but I don't and I am not alone.  We know how to control certain things in the brain electrically and chemically but we don't know how consciousness really works or where it comes from.  Conrolling and treating certain thought patterns is not controlling consciousness.  If you love science then you know there is always more to learn about the universe and ourselves. 

https://qz.com/866352/scientists-say-your-mind-isnt-confined-to-your-brain-or-even-your-body/

Really???

What's with the Deepak Chopra following of late? Do you realise se what you just did to your credibility?

Your first link, Dan Siegel, that's this guy right?

https://www.choprafoundation.org/speakers/daniel-siegel/

Deepak Chopra's associate? World kooks group?

The next two are Intelligent Design links!

I have to ask, what does that have to do with science?

Consciousness is a set of evolved responses, part of our development. I mean really, isn't that obvious considering our overall physical development?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_schema_theory

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psyche101
12 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

OK, time to ring the bell...

Please refute the information presented if you can.

 

Hagelin graduated in physics in 1981, and began post-doctoral research at the CERN for less than a year, then at the SLAC). He vanished in 1983 in the midst of personal problems and reappeared a year later as physics professor at the Maharishi University of Management (MUM), then became its president.[4] Hagelin believes that his extended version of unified field theory is identified with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's "unified field of consciousness", a view that is rejected by "virtually every theoretical physicist in the world".[5]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hagelin

Edited by psyche101
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Rlyeh
7 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Well, if he cherry picked the data in one biased way, perhaps you could cherry pick the alternative data and evidence, to try and put together a counter argument?

Or you could find a better experiment?

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