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Crazy Horse

Jesus Today

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Rlyeh
6 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Like when you smash-up a big old radio. eventually. the music fades...

But the radio waves are still there.

The music isn't.

 

6 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Consciousness survives the brain, that much is just obvious!

The analogy you presented it still needs a brain.  I suggest you test your hypothesis by removing yours.

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lightly
13 hours ago, psyche101 said:

In the interest of discussion I think you do, because you proposed the idea. I'm not saying prove anything.. yet ... I'm saying what exactly are you referring to when you say 'non physical' . I don't mean it offensively or aggressively. Had I said the Woomeranagga  is a much better answer again, similarly, you would ask what the heck is a Woomeranagga.

So what actually is a non physical medium?  Kooks bandy the term about as if it's an acknowledged place dimension or substance, but then refer to all three and more as both  simultaneous and seperate.

So what I'm asking is when you say non physical, what exactly do you mean? 

Thank you I appreciate that. He was a great personality. I will miss him like crazy 

It's chemical/electrical in nature, which to my mind makes it physical. It can be seen, measured and verified. Last year we managed to film a thought in the brain of a mouse being chemically stored. That's direct evidence.

I DON'T KNOW !

Yes, I have proposed the idea of Non physicality as an idea,  I ,and thousands of others down through the the ages and to this very day, simply wonder about the possibility/impossibility of a non physical source for physicality.   I know it sounds goofy. "Kooky" if you prefer. 

 Let's think about so called  "dark" energy for example ,which is not Directly observable.  Or, "dark" matter..also not directly observable ,but is the only explanation 'they' can come up with for the unexplainable 90+ %  of the mass in the universe? Or, let's not think about that.... too physical?

In some writings about Physics, (something that has stuck with me)  I've read about 'virtual' particles "popping in and out of EXISTENCE".  . where ,what ,and when, before and after, are they when Non existent?   . . . non physical?  .  .  .   

I guess that's about the best I can do....    Peace.

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Desertrat56
12 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Really???

What's with the Deepak Chopra following of late? Do you realise se what you just did to your credibility?

Your first link, Dan Siegel, that's this guy right?

https://www.choprafoundation.org/speakers/daniel-siegel/

Deepak Chopra's associate? World kooks group?

The next two are Intelligent Design links!

I have to ask, what does that have to do with science?

Consciousness is a set of evolved responses, part of our development. I mean really, isn't that obvious considering our overall physical development?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_schema_theory

It doesn't matter.  There is a nuerologist that is doing work in near death experiences, I won't waste any of my time or yours looking for a link since you really don't care to learn or understand or even respect anyone else's experience or opinion.  You have your opinion, you have stated it and I have stated mine.  Have a nice day.

Edited by Desertrat56
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psyche101
17 hours ago, lightly said:

I DON'T KNOW !

Yes, I have proposed the idea of Non physicality as an idea,  I ,and thousands of others down through the the ages and to this very day, simply wonder about the possibility/impossibility of a non physical source for physicality.   I know it sounds goofy. "Kooky" if you prefer. 

What I'm saying is we are discussing nothing really. Sure, people have wondered through the ages about the non physical, but it only exists in stories. It's not even a 'thing' it's a 'hypothetical thing' that cannot be defined. So really, how can we discuss it? Considering what we do know, what is the actual point of inventing a hypothetical thing to convolute the paths that are actually showing results?

I'm not picking, I'm just saying it's not even a 'thing' it's just a buzz phrase. An old one sure, but still just an empty term.

17 hours ago, lightly said:

 Let's think about so called  "dark" energy for example ,which is not Directly observable.  Or, "dark" matter..also not directly observable ,but is the only explanation 'they' can come up with for the unexplainable 90+ %  of the mass in the universe? Or, let's not think about that.... too physical?

It's physical for sure. That's how we can detect and measure it. It appears to be a unknown particle, but it's very much real and therefore physical/material.

17 hours ago, lightly said:

In some writings about Physics, (something that has stuck with me)  I've read about 'virtual' particles "popping in and out of EXISTENCE".  . where ,what ,and when, before and after, are they when Non existent?   . . . non physical?  .  .  .   

Imbalances in energy in the quantum realm, which works by different rules than the macro world.

17 hours ago, lightly said:

I guess that's about the best I can do....    Peace.

Please think of this as a discussion, an exchange of information. I'm not a teacher, I'm not an authority, I'm just sharing with you what I know as an acquaintance.

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Alchopwn
On 12/18/2019 at 11:45 AM, Crazy Horse said:

That might be true about the Old Jesus, but I am talking about Jesus Today?

What?  Does he have a Morning Talk Show now?

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psyche101
16 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

It doesn't matter.  There is a nuerologist that is doing work in near death experiences, I won't waste any of my time or yours looking for a link since you really don't care to learn or understand or even respect anyone else's experience or opinion.  You have your opinion, you have stated it and I have stated mine.  Have a nice day.

You don't need to look for a link. I'd guess that you are referring to Sam Parnia and the AWARE project. A very worthy enterprise. He and the project get misquoted regularly by the NDE crowd. He has learner that it appears that the death process takes hours, not minutes and one might even hear their own death announcement.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/science/mind-works-after-death-consciousness-sam-parnia-nyu-langone-a8007101.html%3famp

I'd say I know a great deal more about the subject than you had envisioned.

I'd suggest you follow your own advice and stop believing opinions and have a proper look at what we do know. Sean Carroll is a great place to start.

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lightly
4 hours ago, psyche101 said:

What I'm saying is we are discussing nothing really. Sure, people have wondered through the ages about the non physical, but it only exists in stories. It's not even a 'thing' it's a 'hypothetical thing' that cannot be defined. So really, how can we discuss it? Considering what we do know, what is the actual point of inventing a hypothetical thing to convolute the paths that are actually showing results?

I'm not picking, I'm just saying it's not even a 'thing' it's just a buzz phrase. An old one sure, but still just an empty term.

It's physical for sure. That's how we can detect and measure it. It appears to be a unknown particle, but it's very much real and therefore physical/material.

Imbalances in energy in the quantum realm, which works by different rules than the macro world.

Please think of this as a discussion, an exchange of information. I'm not a teacher, I'm not an authority, I'm just sharing with you what I know as an acquaintance.

Ok, thanks bud.   It is a belief I hold.   I could bring in quotes from ancient wisdom which share my belief , but I'm sure you would completely disregard anything like that as 'unscientific, and therefore of no value...and I hold this source as too precious, to me, to have it used or abused in an unimportant dis agreement.   So....  Peace.

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Desertrat56
6 hours ago, psyche101 said:

You don't need to look for a link. I'd guess that you are referring to Sam Parnia and the AWARE project. A very worthy enterprise. He and the project get misquoted regularly by the NDE crowd. He has learner that it appears that the death process takes hours, not minutes and one might even hear their own death announcement.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/science/mind-works-after-death-consciousness-sam-parnia-nyu-langone-a8007101.html%3famp

I'd say I know a great deal more about the subject than you had envisioned.

I'd suggest you follow your own advice and stop believing opinions and have a proper look at what we do know. Sean Carroll is a great place to start.

No, that is not who I was thinking about but I am dropping it because you don't want discussion, you want to be right.

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joc
11 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

No, that is not who I was thinking about but I am dropping it because you don't want discussion, you want to be right.

B)  On this subject   (as with most others)  he is right!

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psyche101
14 hours ago, lightly said:

Ok, thanks bud.   It is a belief I hold.   I could bring in quotes from ancient wisdom which share my belief , but I'm sure you would completely disregard anything like that as 'unscientific, and therefore of no value...and I hold this source as too precious, to me, to have it used or abused in an unimportant dis agreement.   So....  Peace.

Posters often refer to ancient wisdom.

I'd like to ask, what wisdom exactly? 

Why do people consider our first guesses at understanding the universe as alternate knowledge or wisdom? They were just guesses, The gave us a benchmark to challenge, and a starting point to build from. They were not ever supposed to be conclusions, but like science today, a springboard to challenge and better.

I honestly think that if those initial pioneers to knowledge could see how many hold onto those first ideas as be all end all solutions, I really think they would be disgusted.

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psyche101
12 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

No, that is not who I was thinking about but I am dropping it because you don't want discussion, you want to be right.

Sam Parnia is the foremost authority in that field, I just really hope you are actually referring to a scientist and not another kook 

It's not me that right, it's the smart people I listen to. You should give them a go.

I think you have just proven that it is you who wants to be right. You are ignoring real science and shooting the messenger. There's a discussion here that you are walking away from in a huff. Hard to respect that.

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lightly
9 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Posters often refer to ancient wisdom.

I'd like to ask, what wisdom exactly? 

Why do people consider our first guesses at understanding the universe as alternate knowledge or wisdom? They were just guesses, The gave us a benchmark to challenge, and a starting point to build from. They were not ever supposed to be conclusions, but like science today, a springboard to challenge and better.

I honestly think that if those initial pioneers to knowledge could see how many hold onto those first ideas as be all end all solutions, I really think they would be disgusted.

   No offense psyche, but I'd rather not talk about it.    If I did you would, as I said, disregard it as unscientific, and therefore of no value.      Peace bud.

....I feel I should apologize for bringing "it" into the discussion.   And so, I do.  

I'm learning it just causes too much turmoil, for some, (and for me) to bring in anything which will be considered Unscientific.  I guess I won't do it anymore. :)

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jmccr8
On 12/16/2019 at 4:50 AM, psyche101 said:

My brother passed away this morning.

He's gone. No taps, no apparitions, nothing. He's just gone. I know that much. My world's just a bit emptier and quiet.

Hi Psyche

I just read this and my condolences go out to you, my older brother passed quite a few years ago and he was my best friend.

jmccr8

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psyche101
17 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Psyche

I just read this and my condolences go out to you, my older brother passed quite a few years ago and he was my best friend.

jmccr8

Thanks bud. It's been a tough one alright.

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Debra F. II
On 12/20/2019 at 8:04 AM, lightly said:

   No offense psyche, but I'd rather not talk about it.    If I did you would, as I said, disregard it as unscientific, and therefore of no value.      Peace bud.

....I feel I should apologize for bringing "it" into the discussion.   And so, I do.  

I'm learning it just causes too much turmoil, for some, (and for me) to bring in anything which will be considered Unscientific.  I guess I won't do it anymore. :)

You shouldn't feel as though you need to apologize!

It doesnt matter if people say a topic is unscientific or if subjects turn into turmoil or heated debates, that's what forums are all about, hashing around ideas and sharing each other thoughts.

This is why we all joined to begin with   ; )

Not everyone is an expert and no one is perfect! Don't ever second guess yourself if you want to post something!

Because someone wanting to crush you with their expert education on the a topic shows a lot about a person, they're probably just frustrated with things we say that we're not educated in and/or informed on, some people have no tolerance or patience to explain, and most times these people with expert answers to our questions dont take time to explain it anyway so that you can understand, and they still keep us guessing anyway while ranting on and throwing in nasty digs at times, so dont let that stop you from posting anything here!

We're all friends here!

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psyche101
On 12/20/2019 at 11:04 PM, lightly said:

   No offense psyche, but I'd rather not talk about it.    If I did you would, as I said, disregard it as unscientific, and therefore of no value.      Peace bud.

....I feel I should apologize for bringing "it" into the discussion.   And so, I do.  

I'm learning it just causes too much turmoil, for some, (and for me) to bring in anything which will be considered Unscientific.  I guess I won't do it anymore. :)

That's all good, I understand what you are referring to and I appreciate your candor.

Do you see where I'm coming from though? What exactly is the non physical? It's just an idea of a concept. Nothing has really described it in our written history and few agree on a standard definition? It's just a hole superstition hides in isn't it?

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psyche101
36 minutes ago, Debra F. II said:

You shouldn't feel as though you need to apologize!

It doesnt matter if people say a topic is unscientific or if subjects turn into turmoil or heated debates, that's what forums are all about, hashing around ideas and sharing each other thoughts.

This is why we all joined to begin with   ; )

Not everyone is an expert and no one is perfect! Don't ever second guess yourself if you want to post something!

Because someone wanting to crush you with their expert education on the a topic shows a lot about a person, they're probably just frustrated with things we say that we're not educated in and/or informed on, some people have no tolerance or patience to explain, and most times these people with expert answers to our questions dont take time to explain it anyway so that you can understand, and they still keep us guessing anyway while ranting on and throwing in nasty digs at times, so dont let that stop you from posting anything here!

We're all friends here!

I'd guess he is referring to the recent loss of my brother. Funeral tomorrow. 

There's nothing intellectual about the question I asked. It was quite simple really, what defines non physical? What exactly is it?

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third_eye
8 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I'd guess he is referring to the recent loss of my brother. Funeral tomorrow. 

Condolences... 

~

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Debra F. II
9 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I'd guess he is referring to the recent loss of my brother. Funeral tomorrow. 

There's nothing intellectual about the question I asked. It was quite simple really, what defines non physical? What exactly is it?

That's actually a pretty good topic, it's got me thinking... 

Sorry to hear about your loss. My condolences!

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psyche101
2 hours ago, Debra F. II said:

That's actually a pretty good topic, it's got me thinking... 

I don't think too many actually think about the term. They just parrot it as an alternative. It seems pretty meaningless to me of people can't actually define what they are referring to.

Quote

Sorry to hear about your loss. My condolences!

Thank you.

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Desertrat56
On 12/20/2019 at 6:04 AM, lightly said:

   No offense psyche, but I'd rather not talk about it.    If I did you would, as I said, disregard it as unscientific, and therefore of no value.      Peace bud.

....I feel I should apologize for bringing "it" into the discussion.   And so, I do.  

I'm learning it just causes too much turmoil, for some, (and for me) to bring in anything which will be considered Unscientific.  I guess I won't do it anymore. :)

Please don't stop sharing your experiences just because someone else gets upset or insists you did not have that experience.  Some of us are interested and it is a good practice to learn not to get emotional about someone else's emotional issues.  I have been practicing a long time and still get pulled in, I take it that is an area I need to look at to see what really triggered the emotion.

Edited by Desertrat56

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lightly
36 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Please don't stop sharing your experiences just because someone else gets upset or insists you did not have that experience.  Some of us are interested and it is a good practice to learn not to get emotional about someone else's emotional issues.  I have been practicing a long time and still get pulled in, I take it that is an area I need to look at to see what really triggered the emotion.

Thanks 'Desertrat'. . It's all good..  I just like to think, and wonder about things...always have.    It seems to bother some people when you can't back your wonderings up with  facts.   That's ok.     I've been thinking and wondering for over 50 years about the Physical. . .coming from a more fundamental 'state' ?      This 'state' would be impossible to "define"..or detect or measure by any known physical means?Naturally ?   .. i'm not the first to regard the concept,   as psyche said.   

I wonder where this supposed "singularity" came from? ..which, in theory ,became EVERYTHING there is.   Was IT Always?  Or what!?  

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Alchopwn
On 12/20/2019 at 2:32 PM, psyche101 said:

Posters often refer to ancient wisdom.

I'd like to ask, what wisdom exactly? 

Why do people consider our first guesses at understanding the universe as alternate knowledge or wisdom? They were just guesses, They gave us a benchmark to challenge, and a starting point to build from. They were not ever supposed to be conclusions, but like science today, a springboard to challenge and better.

I honestly think that if those initial pioneers to knowledge could see how many hold onto those first ideas as be all end all solutions, I really think they would be disgusted.

While I sympathise with your position and am not advocating superstition (I hope), I do think that there is a perennial human wisdom that people develop to varying degrees, and it genuinely matters, not only to us as individuals and how we lead our lives, but to humanity as a species, and to other species as well.  I actually think that many religions (but not all) have a portion of it, but will generally do their best to deny and drown it as they become more powerful.  I also think that the perennial wisdom may help drive the development of our species' vestigial psychic abilities.  On the other hand, why develop telepathy if for a couple of hundred dollars you can have a mobile phone with a thousand apps that works reliably every time, amirite?

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KNash
On 12/8/2019 at 2:28 PM, Crazy Horse said:

Which people would that be?

Quote

Whoever. Not everyone who's religious does this if that's what you're getting at.

 

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