Paranormal existence.

[SoWhatNow]

14 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

And there, is the quintessential need for belief: the fear of death and dissolution.

One is born into a world that has existed before your arrival. One lives for a time, and then dies. The world goes on without you.

For example.

You get a job at a major corporation that has been around since before you were born, You work there for 20 years, do good work, and receive the rewards of your efforts. Then you retire. Does the company fold because you left? Nope. It was making profits before you came along, and will probably continue after you're gone.

 

Strangely my journey has led me in a different direction. I believe whatever is personal dies with the body, and persuing spirit in light of that is difficult for the flesh.

I believe one is eternal, and no part of this world, some would describe this as god. By denying the self (which includes ideas about a personal afterlife or even existing) one can come into union with this spirit, and see its glory. If you become so close that its will overtakes your own you cease to exist personally and become an image; truly alive for the first time. One could say this is what it is to be born again though not popularly.

So, no, I don't have faith because of fear of death or disappearing. I can't survive death, but the will of god stands forever.

[v03qxz]

What would you consider 100% factual? I could say my house exists, but I'd have no absolute proof, only evidence of the walls, etc. There is evidence of the paranormal. People have photographs of ghosts, UFO's, Bigfoot, countless personal experiences, etc. These are forms of evidence. But there's no absolute proof of anything in the world. Our world could be some dream in some entity's mind for all we know.

[+Liquid Gardens]

6 hours ago, v03qxz said:

What would you consider 100% factual? I could say my house exists, but I'd have no absolute proof, only evidence of the walls, etc. There is evidence of the paranormal.

There is no evidence of the paranormal that is even in the same ballpark compared to the strength of evidence you could provide for the walls of your house though.

6 hours ago, v03qxz said:

But there's no absolute proof of anything in the world. Our world could be some dream in some entity's mind for all we know.

Agreed.  But in this dream that provides no absolute proof, not all evidence is equal, some is stronger than others.  The famous Patterson film of Bigfoot is stronger evidence than some dude holding a plaster case of a supposed Bigfoot footprint that came from who knows where, and both of these are blown away in my view by the evidence we have from biology concerning what are the normal environmental and population requirements for a population of large mammals to be able to exist and propagate.

[nemesis2473]

 

Quote

There is no evidence of the paranormal that is even in the same ballpark compared to the strength of evidence you could provide for the walls of your house though.

I've read a lot about paranormal claims and yes.... I've not seen anyone have a claim, and back it up with concrete evidence.

Just like my claim, (of course it is a bold claim), but I can provide any evidence anyone would want.

[Mr Walker]

On 12/20/2019 at 7:53 AM, XenoFish said:

There is only one place those things exist, in our minds. A product of our imaginations and fueled by belief. 

Wouldn't life be safe, easy, and certain, if only that were so  

[Mr Walker]

On 12/20/2019 at 7:50 PM, XenoFish said:

Free from what? It's just switching one paradigm for another. 

Free from everything which enslaves or restricts mankind  . Sort of the buddhist objective. 

[Mr Walker]

On 12/20/2019 at 9:24 PM, XenoFish said:

No matter what you shift towards you shall then be bound to that idea. Even if its not focused on a material existence, it's still focused on the self and the self can not be vanquished. At least not till death. Cursed place and body, yet how many actively try to make this world and life a better place? No, what you speak of is escapism born out of fear, the fear to live life. Live through the pain, the suffering, and try to make something better for yourself. It is fear of existence that cause people to strive for the holy. Yet, despite that desire those who wish godly things are always lacking, always wishing, always desiring. Never to be satisfied. It's just another hell they've created. 

Not really At least I've never found that.

it is a much more positive, empowering, experience/reality 

I am happy and content. Life is good. 

In part that is a mental attitude.

In part, it reflects my choices, values, and desires for my life   In other words i worked to create a life, both physically and psychologically, where all my needs are met, and i have no desires. 

[+Sherapy]

8 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Not really At least I've never found that.

it is a much more positive, empowering, experience/reality 

I am happy and content. Life is good. 

In part that is a mental attitude.

In part, it reflects my choices, values, and desires for my life   In other words i worked to create a life, both physically and psychologically, where all my needs are met, and i have no desires. 

Hmmm, like you desire your book club to be open if one was to read you on the Athiest thread. 
Your not beyond desire you just scaled back cuz your on a budget. Lol 

Your posts do not even come close to reflecting you as anything but human warts and all, just like the rest of us. 
 

We all know you would like us to see you as a great spiritual czar but your not your Mr Walker who comes to UM to post and is fondly known as Wally the spinner of tales. 
 

Edited March 18, 2020 by Sherapy

[Alchopwn]

41 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Your posts do not even come close to reflecting you as anything but human warts and all, just like the rest of us. 

 I may have had my disagreements with Mr walker, but I don't think I would call him "human warts".  Perhaps you neglected a comma after "human" (for clarity, as punctuation matters)? Yes I'm joking around.  I have been proofreading all damn day for a buddy.

On 12/1/2019 at 12:30 AM, nemesis2473 said:

Well if not, than what I'm about to tell you would be the first...

I think the point, in terms of the paranormal, is that many people have a brush with things that they cannot rationally explain, and let's face facts, these experiences are interesting.  Most of these cases can be debunked to some degree, but some can't be.  I personally regard this as a form of fringe science.  These cases are not obviously reproducible, and so we need to dig into the evidence to try to uncover what happened.  The insights we glean will generally be folkloric, but they will teach us plenty about human psychology, and occasionally they will lead to fascinating discoveries that may even help us to understand more about the universe.  For example, there was a time when science fervently believed that rocks didn't fall from the sky as there were no rocks in the sky...

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, Alchopwn said:

 I may have had my disagreements with Mr walker, but I don't think I would call him "human warts".  Perhaps you neglected a comma after "human" (for clarity, as punctuation matters)? Yes I'm joking around.  I have been proofreading all damn day for a buddy.

I think the point, in terms of the paranormal, is that many people have a brush with things that they cannot rationally explain, and let's face facts, these experiences are interesting.  Most of these cases can be debunked to some degree, but some can't be.  I personally regard this as a form of fringe science.  These cases are not obviously reproducible, and so we need to dig into the evidence to try to uncover what happened.  The insights we glean will generally be folkloric, but they will teach us plenty about human psychology, and occasionally they will lead to fascinating discoveries that may even help us to understand more about the universe.  For example, there was a time when science fervently believed that rocks didn't fall from the sky as there were no rocks in the sky...

Omg, yes, comma after human. Thank you. Ha ha ha ha.  Your hired.

Edited March 18, 2020 by Sherapy

[+Liquid Gardens]

1 hour ago, Alchopwn said:

I think the point, in terms of the paranormal, is that many people have a brush with things that they cannot rationally explain, and let's face facts, these experiences are interesting.  Most of these cases can be debunked to some degree, but some can't be.  I personally regard this as a form of fringe science.  These cases are not obviously reproducible, and so we need to dig into the evidence to try to uncover what happened.  The insights we glean will generally be folkloric, but they will teach us plenty about human psychology, and occasionally they will lead to fascinating discoveries that may even help us to understand more about the universe.  

These experiences are definitely interesting, as are most stories of super-powers or the supernatural.  I'm not that knowledgeable about the current state of psychology but I didn't think that beliefs and experiences like these would merit being a 'fringe science'.  I've at least never heard anything that suggests that psychology-the-science considers, 'why do people think they have interactions with the supernatural', to be one of the great unanswered questions.  Even if you started with the assumption that there is no supernatural and thus all these beliefs and experiences ('interpretations' is probably the better and most relevant word) are incorrect, I never got the impression that this would be a true mystery for psychology.  My knowledge base may be skewed in that I've probably read more skeptical articles pointing out known psychological qualities that explain why some may have these experiences, without the supernatural being involved, and I'm sure there are of course some scientists who investigate these questions more deeply, but I always got the impression that science is not dumbfounded why people say they have these experiences.

[XenoFish]

There is always an explanation for paranormal phenomena. Because it simple does not exist. 

[Alchopwn]

On 3/19/2020 at 1:00 AM, Liquid Gardens said:

These experiences are definitely interesting, as are most stories of super-powers or the supernatural.  I'm not that knowledgeable about the current state of psychology but I didn't think that beliefs and experiences like these would merit being a 'fringe science'.  I've at least never heard anything that suggests that psychology-the-science considers, 'why do people think they have interactions with the supernatural', to be one of the great unanswered questions.  Even if you started with the assumption that there is no supernatural and thus all these beliefs and experiences ('interpretations' is probably the better and most relevant word) are incorrect, I never got the impression that this would be a true mystery for psychology.  My knowledge base may be skewed in that I've probably read more skeptical articles pointing out known psychological qualities that explain why some may have these experiences, without the supernatural being involved, and I'm sure there are of course some scientists who investigate these questions more deeply, but I always got the impression that science is not dumbfounded why people say they have these experiences.

Well, often psychology can suggest that some of the more outre cases of the supernatural are actually schizophrenic episodes where someone is hallucinating, and often this will have been the case, but the dirty secret involved is that schizophrenia involves an audio hallucination OR a visual hallucination, but not both at the same time.  All too  frequently the people who have experienced some of these things have done so in groups, and the "hallucinations" have been both audio and visual, as well as olfactory and even tactile at the same time on occasion.  Similarly, we can pass off many ghost sightings as a form of grief manifestation, but not always.  The key is when the evidence presented by the phenomenon provides information that proves to be true, but which the individual involved couldn't have known about.  I mean, you can dismiss everyone who makes these claims a liar and a scammer, but the fact is that 70% of the population have experienced something that it is unlikely that any rational explanation can account for.

Then there is the time honored tradition of hoaxing people... But sometimes it is hard to find an 8 foot tall gorilla suit, let alone someone 8 foot tall with the build to wear it convincingly enough.  There is artistry in a good hoax, but sometimes the alleged hoaxers don't prove able to replicate their hoax claims satisfactorily... meaning the hoaxer is the hoax, not the alleged hoax.

Now and again science does manage to get to the bottom of things, such as the case of the Hessdalen Lights.  Then there are the cases of human beings who have actual, for want of a better word "useful genetic mutations", such as the ability to run forever, or the ability to resist capsaicin (super hot chilli), or resistance to extreme cold, and so forth.

I am not suggesting most supernatural claims can't be explained if properly examined by a rational mind, but there are a few that should be regarded as genuinely challenging, like some of the flying saucer sightings that have occurred where literally hundreds of eyewitnesses have seen them at the same time.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Alchopwn

[XenoFish]

I give the supernatural and paranormal a very long leash. As it currently stands, with the simple mundane explanations most of which are psychological. The complete lack of proof. I've given up on it being real at all. The last little bit of "magic" in life is dead. Now everything is just chemical reactions and entropy. 

[Alchopwn]

17 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I give the supernatural and paranormal a very long leash. As it currently stands, with the simple mundane explanations most of which are psychological. The complete lack of proof. I've given up on it being real at all. The last little bit of "magic" in life is dead. Now everything is just chemical reactions and entropy. 

Aww c'mon Granpa Rick, it ain't all bad.  Whatabout our dragon adventure?  That had magic in it.

[XenoFish]

1 hour ago, Alchopwn said:

Aww c'mon Granpa Rick, it ain't all bad.  Whatabout our dragon adventure?  That had magic in it.

Sorry no. It's been too many years of nothing. Just excuses. There are no ghosts, gods, or demons. No psychic abilities or magical powers. I've entertained those idea for too long, yet here I am, years later and still nothing. 

[nemesis2473]

2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Sorry no. It's been too many years of nothing. Just excuses. There are no ghosts, gods, or demons. No psychic abilities or magical powers. I've entertained those idea for too long, yet here I am, years later and still nothing. 

As I've stated, my paranormal experience is no hoax, or delusion, it is, I'm afraid real.

How do I know it's real for me as it is just as real to you? Well, it's called awareness.

I was made aware of this phenom through my basic senses. 

Can it be scientifically proven..... yes. (Nothings a 100% fact...) But there are probabilities in every thing that makes up this reality.

And the proof is just as solid as any proof that exists.So how can it be proven to you? 

Well.... do you want proof?

I would probably guess, no.

But if you do, then speak up. (Don't be scared.)

 

[XenoFish]

17 minutes ago, nemesis2473 said:

As I've stated, my paranormal experience is no hoax, or delusion, it is, I'm afraid real.

How do I know it's real for me as it is just as real to you? Well, it's called awareness.

I was made aware of this phenom through my basic senses. 

Can it be scientifically proven..... yes. (Nothings a 100% fact...) But there are probabilities in every thing that makes up this reality.

And the proof is just as solid as any proof that exists.So how can it be proven to you? 

Well.... do you want proof?

I would probably guess, no.

But if you do, then speak up. (Don't be scared.)

 

I do not believe your story. 

[nemesis2473]

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

I do not believe your story. 

That don't make it fiction.

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, nemesis2473 said:

That don't make it fiction.

Does to me. It's no different from the stuff I've read for years. Same song and dance, with nothing provable to back it up. 

[nemesis2473]

12 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

7 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Does to me. It's no different from the stuff I've read for years. Same song and dance, with nothing provable to back it up. 

I do not believe your story. 

That don't make it fiction.

Sorry, I'd hate to insult you, but you must be a fool. (or illiterate)

Didn't I just write it can be proven?

[onlookerofmayhem]

34 minutes ago, nemesis2473 said:

Didn't I just write it can be proven?

[nemesis2473]

Well, I'd figure you would formally ask for proof.. (I'm not a psychic!)

So it's not the problem of it not being real... It's the problem of what would be proof to you?

Some video? Or maybe some scientific proof?

(The later would have to involve a scientist/s, which I am not. Although, I would be ecstatic if someone could make that happen.)

So.…. which is it?

[onlookerofmayhem]

8 minutes ago, nemesis2473 said:

So.…. which is it?

Present your claim and whatever evidence you have so it can be evaluated. 

[nemesis2473]

32 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

Present your claim and whatever evidence you have so it can be evaluated. 

I have no evidence for you at this moment.

I'll have to record some live web streams. (Plus you will have to have some level of awareness. And please have some faith that I'm being sincere.)

There is one thing you can do, if you want. If you really are seeking some sort of "proof"....

The president earlier today addressed the nation about the latest corona virus issues.

Then after that there was a live interview outside the White House, and I don't know who it was, (Some black lady.)

but while that was happening was when I started watching.... Notice the strange wind that was present? blowing in the background

and even her hair?

Like I said.... awareness is a key virtue in seeing this energy that is expelled while I peer at a live stream,