How will Impeachment play out?

[Farmer77]

 White House limits number of officials allowed to listen to Trump calls with foreign leaders: report

Quote

Fewer administration officials are allowed to listen to President Trump's phone calls with foreign leaders after the president's July 25 call with the leader of Ukraine became a central part of the House impeachment inquiry, CNN reported, citing White House sources.

Transcripts of the calls are also being given to a smaller number of officials, sources told the news network.

"Nobody is allowed on the calls," a White House official told CNN while describing a new attempt to limit access to the calls to top aides only. "The barn door officially closed after the horse escaped."

 

I love the bolded. Basically theyre saying "now that people know we're breaking the law we're gonna reduce the amount of witnesses"

[+DieChecker]

10 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

All they have to do is not use the power of the office to coerce a foreign nation into interfering in our elections and it wont be a problem.

 

True, but anything can be a misdemeanor, so.....

[+DieChecker]

1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

 White House limits number of officials allowed to listen to Trump calls with foreign leaders: report

 

I love the bolded. Basically theyre saying "now that people know we're breaking the law we're gonna reduce the amount of witnesses"

So back to Obama/Bush SOP?

[Farmer77]

2 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

So back to Obama/Bush SOP?

Thats all it takes for you to not examine the behavior itself huh?   Someone on youtube or fox saying thats the case?  This one feels like a Gutfield kind of line....am I close?

No its not "back to Obama/Bush SOP" ....on so many different levels

 

[Farmer77]

22 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

True, but anything can be a misdemeanor, so.....

This is a good example of disinformation coming from the Trumpian media. Anything can be a misdemeanor and that is exactly the point of the vague wording in the Constitution. 

 

Quote

mpeachment of judges and executive officials by Congress was one of the checks proposed at the Constitutional Convention. The impeachment of judges drew widespread support, because federal judges would hold lifetime appointments and needed some check on their power. But some framers opposed impeachment of executive officials, arguing that the president’s power could be checked every four years by elections.

James Madison of Virginia successfully argued that an election every four years did not provide enough of a check on a president who was incapacitated or abusing the power of the office. He contended that “loss of capacity, or corruption . . . might be fatal to the republic” if the president could not be removed until the next election.

With the convention agreed on the necessity of impeachment, it next had to agree on the grounds. One committee proposed the grounds be “treason, bribery, and corruption.” Another committee was selected to deal with matters not yet decided. This committee deleted corruption and left “treason or bribery” as the grounds.

But the committee’s recommendation did not satisfy everyone. George Mason of Virginia proposed adding “maladministration.” He thought that treason and bribery did not cover all the harm that a president might do. He pointed to the English case of Warren Hastings, whose impeachment trial was then being heard in London. Hastings, the first Governor General of Bengal in India, was accused of corruption and treating the Indian people brutally.

Madison objected to “maladministration.” He thought this term was so vague that it would threaten the separation of powers. Congress could remove any president it disagreed with on grounds of “maladministration.” This would give Congress complete power over the executive.

Mason abandoned “maladministration” and proposed “high crimes and misdemeanors against the state.” The convention adopted Mason’s proposal, but dropped “against the state.” The final version, which appears in the Constitution, stated: “The president, vice-president, and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.”

The convention adopted “high crimes and misdemeanors” with little discussion. Most of the framers knew the phrase well. Since 1386, the English parliament had used “high crimes and misdemeanors” as one of the grounds to impeach officials of the crown. Officials accused of “high crimes and misdemeanors” were accused of offenses as varied as misappropriating government funds, appointing unfit subordinates, not prosecuting cases, not spending money allocated by Parliament, promoting themselves ahead of more deserving candidates, threatening a grand jury, disobeying an order from Parliament, arresting a man to keep him from running for Parliament, losing a ship by neglecting to moor it, helping “suppress petitions to the King to call a Parliament,” granting warrants without cause, and bribery. Some of these charges were crimes. Others were not. The one common denominator in all these accusations was that the official had somehow abused the power of his office and was unfit to serve.

http:// https://www.crf-usa.org/impeachment/high-crimes-and-misdemeanors.html

 

So you can see the democrats are acting in concordance with the founding fathers' wishes as described during the convention. We've made it this far without impeachment being an annual thing theres no reason to think this will cause that to change.

In other words its either a scare tactic or theyre just prepping you for their move if they lose the WH.

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by Farmer77

[RoofGardener]

3 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

This is a good example of disinformation coming from the Trumpian media. Anything can be a misdemeanor and that is exactly the point of the vague wording in the Constitution. 

 

http:// https://www.crf-usa.org/impeachment/high-crimes-and-misdemeanors.html

 

So you can see the democrats are acting in concordance with the founding fathers' wishes as described during the convention. We've made it this far without impeachment being an annual thing theres no reason to think this will cause that to change.

In other words its either a scare tactic or theyre just prepping you for their move if they lose the WH.

 

I think that many people would regard the business of the telephone call with the President of the Ukraine as being somewhat nebulous to level charges against ? 

Ultimately, the Democratic Leadership will have to answer to their ultimate bosses - the people. If - in November of 2020 - the People think that the democrats where acting honestly, then Trump may indeed by voted out of power. If - on the other hand - people think that the Democrats where scheming for impeachment since 2016, and used procedural trickery and hypocrisy to level the impeachment charges, then things will go rather badly for them. 

We shall see  

[Farmer77]

3 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

I think that many people would regard the business of the telephone call with the President of the Ukraine as being somewhat nebulous to level charges against ? 

Ultimately, the Democratic Leadership will have to answer to their ultimate bosses - the people. If - in November of 2020 - the People think that the democrats where acting honestly, then Trump may indeed by voted out of power. If - on the other hand - people think that the Democrats where scheming for impeachment since 2016, and used procedural trickery and hypocrisy to level the impeachment charges, then things will go rather badly for them. 

We shall see  

Considering the state of our public education system, combined with the propaganda fueled alternate universe foxnews provides,  I would not bet against his reelection. 

His reelection however would not change the facts in the case.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Farmer77

[RoofGardener]

13 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Considering the state of our public education system, combined with the propaganda fueled alternate universe foxnews provides,  I would not bet against his reelection. 

His reelection however would not change the facts in the case.

Well, indeed @Farmer77. Because in general, Fox News has more influence on the average American than CNN, NBC, MSNBC, ABC, the Washington Post and the New York Times all combined together  

If he is re-elected, then that means that either The People dispute the "facts of the case", or they regard them as irrelevant. 

Well, we shall see in November. 

As Greenday said.. "Wake me up, when September ends"  A single from the appropriately named album "American Idiot"  

 

 

 

[Golden Duck]

6 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

If lightening started a forest fire or a man throwing a cigarette out a car window started a forest fire and you were standing in its path, would you stand there and debate the issue or would you try to put it out or get out of the way?

 

Was Biden driving the car?

[Farmer77]

16 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Well, indeed @Farmer77. Because in general, Fox News has more influence on the average American than CNN, NBC, MSNBC, ABC, the Washington Post and the New York Times all combined together  

If he is re-elected, then that means that either The People dispute the "facts of the case", or they regard them as irrelevant. 

This like many of your posts leaves me questioning if youre joking or if you really do lack a grasp on the subject matter.............soooo im gonna go ahead and ask in this case which is it? Do you not understand the electoral college or are you just yanking my chain?

[+DieChecker]

2 hours ago, DieChecker said:

True, but anything can be a misdemeanor, so.....

 

1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

This is a good example of disinformation coming from the Trumpian media. Anything can be a misdemeanor and that is exactly the point of the vague wording in the Constitution. 

 

http:// https://www.crf-usa.org/impeachment/high-crimes-and-misdemeanors.html

 

So you can see the democrats are acting in concordance with the founding fathers' wishes as described during the convention. We've made it this far without impeachment being an annual thing theres no reason to think this will cause that to change.

In other words its either a scare tactic or theyre just prepping you for their move if they lose the WH.

 

Right... Prepping for if they lose the WH. Exactly right. And, you said it, anything can be a misdemenor.

You're poo-pooing that this will happen, but you've been wrong on several fronts already over the last two years. 

[+Hammerclaw]

5 hours ago, DieChecker said:

 

Right... Prepping for if they lose the WH. Exactly right. And, you said it, anything can be a misdemenor.

You're poo-pooing that this will happen, but you've been wrong on several fronts already over the last two years. 

What the Republican's are saying is what's good for the goose, is good for the gander. Biden, if elected and the Republicans held their majority in the Senate and/or gained the House, would come under immediate investigation, considering the baggage he'd bring with him. 

[RoofGardener]

7 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

This like many of your posts leaves me questioning if youre joking or if you really do lack a grasp on the subject matter.............soooo im gonna go ahead and ask in this case which is it? Do you not understand the electoral college or are you just yanking my chain?

Nooooooo.. I'm not yanking your chain. 

Well, perhaps a LITTLE bit

@Farmer77, what has the electoral college got to do with this ? You stated that if Trump was re-elected, it would be down in part to propaganda from Fox News. I pointed out that Fox is a minor player in this, compared to the combined anti-Trump rhetoric of MSNBC, CNN etc etc. 

And then you threw the electoral college at me ? The electoral college is a voting amalgamation scheme. Each state has a number of "electoral college votes". Traditionally, these votes are given to the presidential candidate that the majority of the voters in that state voted for. In THEORY the electoral college could give those votes to a DIFFERENT candidate, but they - again by tradition - they would all be lynched in the town square.  

 

[RoofGardener]

On 12/13/2019 at 2:21 PM, Doug1029 said:

... He is being impeached for Abuse of Power and Obstruction of Congress, two Articles against which nobody, not even Trump, is contesting the facts.

Ummm.. I rather think he IS, you know ? 

[Tatetopa]

10 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Well, indeed @Farmer77. Because in general, Fox News has more influence on the average American than CNN, NBC, MSNBC, ABC, the Washington Post and the New York Times all combined together

You do know that FOX viewership is almost as large as CNN and MSNBC combined?  So yes they have quite a reach.  Sinclair Broadcasting, which is conservative  is one of the largest owners of radio stations across the nation they  have quite a large effect.  I would guess that more people get their news and opinions from TV, radio, and the internet than from newspapers.

[Tatetopa]

2 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Ummm.. I rather think he IS, you know ? 

Depends on time frame.  First it was perfect call.  Then it was noting wrong with fighting corruption.  Then it was all witnesses are just anti-Trump.  Then it was we do it all the time, get over it. Then it was I didn't say that.  Now it is I have absolute immunity, nobody can touch me.

[RavenHawk]

17 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

This is AWESOME. You accuse one side of believing conspiracy theories at the same time youre spreading your own

Please point out where I’ve stated a CT in that?

 

is truly the only response to this bit of nuttery

Oh?  Who is it that is jumping on the fake Anthropomorphic Climate Change bandwagon?  That! Is nuttery.  Buffoonery.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

Why are you posting your resume?

[RavenHawk]

17 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

If lightening started a forest fire or a man throwing a cigarette out a car window started a forest fire and you were standing in its path, would you stand there and debate the issue or would you try to put it out or get out of the way?

Anthropomorphic Climate Change is neither lightening or a cigarette from a car, so no fire would ensue.  Climate is changing and we need to learn how to adapt to those changes as Man has always done.  There is nothing we can do to change climate.  Hell, we aren’t even a Type I Civilization.  ACC is a globalist plot to create the largest plantation ever seen.  Where the masses become serfs doing the bidding of a few ruling elite.

[RoofGardener]

1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

You do know that FOX viewership is almost as large as CNN and MSNBC combined?  So yes they have quite a reach.  Sinclair Broadcasting, which is conservative  is one of the largest owners of radio stations across the nation they  have quite a large effect.  I would guess that more people get their news and opinions from TV, radio, and the internet than from newspapers.

Truly ? No, I had no idea about that. Thanks for the update. 

[RoofGardener]

1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

Depends on time frame.  First it was perfect call.  Then it was noting wrong with fighting corruption.  Then it was all witnesses are just anti-Trump.  Then it was we do it all the time, get over it. Then it was I didn't say that.  Now it is I have absolute immunity, nobody can touch me.

The most recent speech of his I came across (a couple-or-three days old ? ) he was still denying that there was anything impeachable about the telephone call, and that he had done nothing wrong. 

[Golden Duck]

18 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Anthropomorphic Climate Change is neither lightening or a cigarette from a car, so no fire would ensue.  Climate is changing and we need to learn how to adapt to those changes as Man has always done.  There is nothing we can do to change climate.  Hell, we aren’t even a Type I Civilization.  ACC is a globalist plot to create the largest plantation ever seen.  Where the masses become serfs doing the bidding of a few ruling elite.

Do you you perhaps mean anthropogenic?

[acidhead]

 

[RavenHawk]

11 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Considering the state of our public education system, combined with the propaganda fueled alternate universe foxnews provides,  I would not bet against his reelection.

It’s the Left that controls the educational system here.  Because there are still enough parents that actually raise their children, those children can fight off the indoctrination.  This is why the Left has turned its focus on attacking the family.  Once, that is destroyed, indoctrination will have no more impediments.  Foxnews is far more fair and balanced than any of the MSM.  There is no more free press, they have sold themselves into bondage as the propaganda arm of the Left.  What Fox has been able to do despite that is amazing but not unexpected.  The Left has become so deranged that the people see through that false façade and are turning to Fox.  The propaganda of the Left is backfiring.

 

His reelection however would not change the facts in the case.

That is correct, it won’t change the facts of the case.  It’s just that you have the facts all wrong.  And I’ll prove it.  If you think that Trump is so much the traitor and is so corrupt and abused his power, don’t you think it would cross party lines in droves to remove him from office?  And if you think we are all just covering for him, don’t you think that would mean that the alternative is worse (mind you they would find a way to remove Pence as well)?  The simple fact is that you and the Left can’t get over that you lost in 2016 and you don’t have a snowball’s change in Hell to win in 2020.  Some time in January or maybe even February you’ll be disappointed again, like the Mueller Report.  The Senate will either dismiss the impeachment and the time and effort the Progs in the House put into it will have been wasted or,  the Senate will find the backbone an proceed with indicting the corruption and abuse of power that the Left has been involved in for the past several years.  Either way, it is not looking good for the Left.  And you’ll be even more disappointed in November of next year when Trump wins again.  By then you will be beyond hope as you will be so deranged that the guys in the white coats will come for you.  Let’s not forget that the Left will try their stupidity at least a couple more times before November.  Al Green is all set to impeach Trump for something else.

[Grim Reaper 6]

56 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Please point out where I’ve stated a CT in that?

 

 

 

 

 

Oh?  Who is it that is jumping on the fake Anthropomorphic Climate Change bandwagon?  That! Is nuttery.  Buffoonery.

 

 

 

 

 

Why are you posting your resume?

 

Anyone from Georgia can tell you how the impeachment will work out. To properly impeach you must have a tight grip on the peach and squeeze, if it done correctly the seed will just pop out of the top and the process will be finished. It's not really that difficult since Georgia is full of Peachs, you can get plenty of practice. 

Hope this helps

[RavenHawk]

39 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Do you you perhaps mean anthropogenic?

Nope, the term that has been used all these years is Anthropomorphic or Human caused climate change, which is an oxymoron.  As for the other, yes, Man pollutes his environment but environment has nothing to do with climate change.