RoofGardener Posted December 20, 2019 #551 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Just now, Farmer77 said: It is desperation to defend the constitution. By doing so she is ensuring the nation knows if and when Trump gets acquitted in the Senate that it wasnt because of a fair trial based on facts but because of biased jurors. Well, if that happens, it will be unique in the history of impeachment trials. They have almost ALWAYS been partisan political affairs, and NOT judicial ones. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted December 20, 2019 #552 Share Posted December 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: Umm.. the constitution ? Good one! The Constitution says if guilty you're removed from office. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted December 20, 2019 #553 Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: Well, if that happens, it will be unique in the history of impeachment trials. They have almost ALWAYS been partisan political affairs, and NOT judicial ones. Right but it still preemptively takes the winds out of Trumps sails when he tries to proclaim he was acquitted by the Senate. She's planting the seed so when he does Americans automatically go , "well yeah they said they were going to before ever even hearing the case". As the republicans have been fond of reminding us lately, Americans care about fairness. Edited December 20, 2019 by Farmer77 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted December 20, 2019 #554 Share Posted December 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Golden Duck said: Good one! The Constitution says if guilty you're removed from office. Ah... you're talking about the AMERICAN constitution ? I was referring to the Constitution of the Federated States of Micronesia ? Jesting apart.. I'm not sure WHERE I got the ".. can be found guilty, but not removed from office" part ? It would appear that I am wrong on this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted December 20, 2019 #555 Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Glad I could help you find your people you're the one obsessed with them not me... but that twitter account is a rich vein of humour so thanks.... Edited December 20, 2019 by bee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted December 20, 2019 #556 Share Posted December 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Farmer77 said: Right but it still preemptively takes the winds out of Trumps sails when he tries to proclaim he was acquitted by the Senate. She's planting the seed so when he does Americans automatically go , "well yeah they said they were going to before ever even hearing the case". As the republicans have been fond of reminding us lately, Americans care about fairness. It still smacks of procedural trickery and desperation to me, @Farmer77. We all know that it is a political "trial", not a judicial one. Accordingly, the pre-existing beliefs or prejudices of the "jurors" are not relevant. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted December 20, 2019 #557 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Just now, RoofGardener said: It still smacks of procedural trickery and desperation to me, @Farmer77. We all know that it is a political "trial", not a judicial one. Accordingly, the pre-existing beliefs or prejudices of the "jurors" are not relevant. What desperation though? What is she desperate about? Do you think she is the only person on earth who went into this thinking the GOP would remove in the senate? Of course she didnt. So what exactly is she desperate about? (aside from the whole dude and his cronies trying to make him king thing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted December 20, 2019 #558 Share Posted December 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: It still smacks of procedural trickery and desperation to me, @Farmer77. We all know that it is a political "trial", not a judicial one. Accordingly, the pre-existing beliefs or prejudices of the "jurors" are not relevant. and I have to say that regardless of it being a political trial we should still expect our representatives to uphold the constitution and law regardless of party. Further "we" all know its a political trial but "we" are political creatures. The vast majority of Americans are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted December 20, 2019 #559 Share Posted December 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: Ah... you're talking about the AMERICAN constitution ? I was referring to the Constitution of the Federated States of Micronesia ? Jesting apart.. I'm not sure WHERE I got the ".. can be found guilty, but not removed from office" part ? It would appear that I am wrong on this ? No you aren't. https://thehill.com/homenews/house/475239-pelosi-noncommittal-on-delivering-impeachment-articles-to-senate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted December 20, 2019 #560 Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) Trump wants a trial. A full trial! He's not happy with Mitchell right now. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50863967 He tweeted: "So after the Democrats gave me no Due Process in the House, no lawyers, no witnesses, no nothing, they now want to tell the Senate how to run their trial. Actually, they have zero proof of anything, they will never even show up. They want out. I want an immediate trial!" Edited December 20, 2019 by susieice 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted December 20, 2019 #561 Share Posted December 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: Ah... you're talking about the AMERICAN constitution ? I was referring to the Constitution of the Federated States of Micronesia ? Jesting apart.. I'm not sure WHERE I got the ".. can be found guilty, but not removed from office" part ? It would appear that I am wrong on this ? My guess is that it is natural to assume it would run like a normal court. I also wondered if it was a two step process of decide guilt then sanction. I was genuinely interested if you had something to confirm your assertion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted December 20, 2019 #562 Share Posted December 20, 2019 5 hours ago, Farmer77 said: Woah.......this could change the calculus in the Senate. This evangelical Christian magazine just stunned readers by calling for Trump’s removal I think rather that Christianity Today is going to loose a lot of readership. 1 hour ago, Farmer77 said: You do mean except for the part where Donald John Trump will forever be remembered as the third US President ever to be impeached right? Like Bill Clinton, who is remembered, now, fondly by Rs and Ds? And who's wife was STILL able to run for President? And despite being a horrible candidate, still almost win. 32 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Theres ALOT of disinformation out there. Coming from both sides of the media. 25 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: ... if and when Trump gets acquitted in the Senate that it wasnt because of a fair trial based on facts but because of biased jurors. You mean like how it was voted on in the House by BIAS prosecutors? A vote where no Republicans voted in favor, but some Democrats voted against... By every appearance a completely "unfair" vote?? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted December 20, 2019 #563 Share Posted December 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, DieChecker said: Like Bill Clinton, who is remembered, now, fondly by Rs and Ds? And who's wife was STILL able to run for President? And despite being a horrible candidate, still almost win. Sure but even a historically popular president like Clinton is identified as being impeached when having historic conversations. Do you think that wont be true for an historically unpopular president? 3 minutes ago, DieChecker said: I think rather that Christianity Today is going to loose a lot of readership. Yeah those are the Graham folks and their readership generally is clergy. The potential impact of that article is huge especially considering there is an evangelical Pence standing in line waiting. 4 minutes ago, DieChecker said: You mean like how it was voted on in the House by BIAS prosecutors? A vote where no Republicans voted in favor, but some Democrats voted against... By every appearance a completely "unfair" vote?? Exactly. It appears that the GOP had such success with that (factually inaccurate) tactic that Pelosi has decided to copy it. Of course where she wins this round is having the GOP leadership on record stating their intent is for it to be an unfair trial. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted December 20, 2019 #564 Share Posted December 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, DieChecker said: I think rather that Christianity Today is going to loose a lot of readership. Like Bill Clinton, who is remembered, now, fondly by Rs and Ds? And who's wife was STILL able to run for President? And despite being a horrible candidate, still almost win. Coming from both sides of the media. You mean like how it was voted on in the House by BIAS prosecutors? A vote where no Republicans voted in favor, but some Democrats voted against... By every appearance a completely "unfair" vote?? Here's the House vote. It didn't pass by much. https://www.politico.com/interactives/2019/trump-impeachment-vote-count-house-results/ The US media is trying real hard to convince everyone but there is no impeachment until Pelosi takes those articles to the Senate. The media should know that. She will have to face them sooner or not or there's no impeachment. Don't take the people of the US for fools. They are over the BS for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted December 20, 2019 #565 Share Posted December 20, 2019 25 minutes ago, susieice said: Trump wants a trial. A full trial! He's not happy with Mitchell right now. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50863967 He tweeted: "So after the Democrats gave me no Due Process in the House, no lawyers, no witnesses, no nothing, they now want to tell the Senate how to run their trial. Actually, they have zero proof of anything, they will never even show up. They want out. I want an immediate trial!" I cant believe his followers arent tired of being lied to yet Trump refuses to participate in House impeachment proceedings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted December 20, 2019 #566 Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: I cant believe his followers arent tired of being lied to yet Trump refuses to participate in House impeachment proceedings Farmer. No one can tell you they aren't followers and personally I'm tired of telling you. I hope you don't think you're insulting me. Now, the point is Pelosi has to face the Senate. Way it goes. There's no way around it. She needs to deal with it and move on. This is exactly why I won't vote for either one of them. Edited December 20, 2019 by susieice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted December 20, 2019 #567 Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, susieice said: Farmer. No one can tell you they aren't followers and personally I'm tired of telling you. I hope you don't think you're insulting me. I wasnt even talking about you. You need to chill. 4 minutes ago, susieice said: Now, the point is Pelosi has to face the Senate. Way it goes. There's no way around it. She needs to deal with it and move on. She is dealing with it beautifully. Now all Christmas break the news will say "why hasnt Pelosi passed on the articles" and theyll play her saying she wants a fair trial followed by Graham saying he has no plans to be impartial and McConnell saying hes taking his cues from the WH. Right at the time that Americans are gathering together around the living room for the holiday specials, bowl games, etc. Brilliant politics. Hell maybe that isnt even her plan but if it isnt those are some awesome unintended consequences! Edited December 20, 2019 by Farmer77 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted December 20, 2019 #568 Share Posted December 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Farmer77 said: I wasnt even talking about you. You need to chill. She is dealing with it beautifully. Now all Christmas break the news will say "why hasnt Pelosi passed on the articles" and theyll play her saying she wants a fair trial followed by Graham saying he has no plans to be impartial and McConnell saying hes taking his cues from the WH. Right at the time that Americans are gathering together around the living room for the holiday specials, bowl games, etc. Brilliant politics. Hell maybe that isnt even her plan but if it isnt those are some awesome unintended consequences! Trump wants a trial. She needs to follow up on what she started. There is no turning back. That's just how it is. There are no excuses. It has to go to the Senate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted December 20, 2019 #569 Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, susieice said: Trump wants a trial. She needs to follow up on what she started. There is no turning back. That's just how it is. There are no excuses. It has to go to the Senate. Trump isnt in control . It will go to the senate when the time is appropriate. Edited December 20, 2019 by Farmer77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted December 20, 2019 #570 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Just now, Farmer77 said: Trump isnt in control. It will go to the senate when the time is appropriate. That's an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted December 20, 2019 #571 Share Posted December 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, susieice said: That's an excuse. LOL how exactly is that an excuse? An excuse for what? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted December 20, 2019 #572 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Just now, Farmer77 said: LOL how exactly is that an excuse? An excuse for what? You're a mess Farmer. I don't know who all these people are that you speak for but 80% of us don't even vote. Just deliver the articles. Write her a personal letter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted December 20, 2019 #573 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Just now, susieice said: You're a mess Farmer. I don't know who all these people are that you speak for but 80% of us don't even vote. Just deliver the articles. Write her a personal letter. What on earth does this have to do with my post? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted December 20, 2019 #574 Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) https://www.newsweek.com/impeachment-trump-constitution-2020-election-1478325 These two pathways, impeachment and re-election, are not mutually exclusive, however. After being impeached by the House, Trump could be removed by the Senate and still retain his ability to run for the presidency in 2020. Article II of the Constitution states that the president, vice president and all civil officers "shall be removed from office" if they are impeached and convicted. While the plain language of Article II says officers "shall" be removed upon a conviction, Article I provides latitude for additional sanction from the Senate. A final verdict in impeachment cannot "extend further than to removal from office, and disqualification to hold" office. This language from Article I enables the Senate to bar officials from holding government office after conviction. But because of its discretionary nature, the Senate would not be required to prevent a convicted individual from ever holding office again. "It is a sentencing provision," University of Missouri constitutional law professor Frank O. Bowman III told The New York Times. Should the requisite two-thirds Senate majority vote to convict the president—a near-impossible scenario—the Upper Chamber could easily allow him to run for the White House again in 2020. Edited December 20, 2019 by susieice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted December 20, 2019 #575 Share Posted December 20, 2019 2 hours ago, bee said: I have no hard and fast political affinities or tribal loyalties.... but on observation of it all I have to say that the 'left' (and I have friends on the left)......... are being 'played like a fiddle' - and are being sent crazy by the clever psychological operation being rolled out 24/7 - world wide.... they are being targeted and don't even realize... It is easy to see the Democrats are triggered and the impeachment is their reaction too it. They hate Trump so he continues to wind them up driving them wild lol. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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