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Navy officer saw '2-mile-wide UFO' over base

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joc

1132616765_circlecloud1.jpg.fbfb28f53d0df54acc371c8bb4b6bb9f.jpg

On 12/5/2019 at 9:10 AM, stereologist said:
  • time of day of the sighting
  • direction of the sighting
  • year
  • name of the base
  • elevation
  • names of other witnesses
  • morning around 9:00
  • western sky
  • 2019 December 2
  • my truck
  • 40' up on the overpass
  • no other witnesses

So I looked up and there it was...the circle in the sky.  This is not a trick photo or...trees in the woods sort of thing.  I have never seen this anywhere before...which is why I took a picture of it.  Any ideas?  Again...I really don't know what caused this...it was just very interesting so I took a picture of it. 

 

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joc
On 12/5/2019 at 11:59 AM, RabidMongoose said:

A 2 mile wide airship would create the lift necessary to transport something weighing several 1000 tonnes into orbit.

No it wouldn't!  Size has nothing to do with lift...

...a weather balloon can only go up so far before it freezes and explodes into a billion frozen pieces. 

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Tom1200
On 12/5/2019 at 6:28 PM, stereologist said:

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  The mechanisms for efficient transport in water, air, and space are different.  Why would anyone give a submarine escape velocity capabilities?  Do you realize that at 100,000 feet the pull of gravity is nearly the same as at the surface of the Earth?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity  If we take a look at that page we see the formula  where r changes from 6378 to 6398. That's not much of a change.  The escape velocity at 20 miles up is 99.8% of the escape velocity at the surface.

Sorry to be a bore but it's got nothing to do with escape velocity.

Escape velocity is that single value which, if an object is moving vertically at that speed with only gravity to slow it down (i.e. no air resistance, bird impacts, etc.), that object will leave Earth's gravitational influence.  Theoretically it will slow continuously, but the rate of slowing will fall as gravity's effect weakens with distance.  In an empty universe it would stop moving after an infinite distance; but in a real universe full of stuff that could never happen.

Nothing is launched at escape velocity.  Its value at Earth's surface is 11.2 km/s (ignoring air resistance) which is 25 000 mph.  We don't see spaceships launched at this speed - in fact they start at about... zero, standing still on the ground.  Rocket science is mainly about getting payloads beyond the Earth's atmosphere so they can orbit.  This is achieved through Newton Two: F = ma.  Produce a thrust greater than your weight and you get a small resultant force upwards that accelerates you up.  The rocket gains gravitational potential energy (and some kinetic energy) by using up chemical energy of the fuel.  (And loads of heat, light and sound are wasted too.)  

So one part of RabidMongoose's idea is valid - if you can use an alternative to rocket engines to lift the rocket some of the way into space you'll need a lot less fuel to get it into orbit.  As you point out - even on a platform floating 20 km up at the edge of the atmosphere gravity is virtually the same, so the rocket would still need to launch, using thrust, to continue its journey.  But this rocket needs less thrust, because it doesn't need to carry as much fuel, so it's lighter.

I could probably look up the equations and do the maths to see what difference it would make.  Intuitively I would suggest it would be substantial, but I couldn't guess how difficult and impractical a two-mile wide airship would be.  There must be good reasons why no one has tried this yet...

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esoteric_toad

I was trying to find a terrain rendering package I could actually use to simulate what a 2 mile wide object would look like but for the time being I lack the mental fortitude to figure them out right now (Terragen as an example). I did manage to make a scene with a 3000 meter wide sphere and roughly 3333 meters altitude and it took up a huge portion of the sky. 

There is no way at all this would not have been witnessed by MANY people (lit up or dark).

Edited by esoteric_toad

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ChrLzs
8 hours ago, joc said:

1132616765_circlecloud1.jpg.fbfb28f53d0df54acc371c8bb4b6bb9f.jpg

  • morning around 9:00
  • western sky
  • 2019 December 2
  • my truck
  • 40' up on the overpass
  • no other witnesses

So I looked up and there it was...the circle in the sky.  This is not a trick photo or...trees in the woods sort of thing.  I have never seen this anywhere before...which is why I took a picture of it.  Any ideas?  Again...I really don't know what caused this...it was just very interesting so I took a picture of it. 

 

Looks to me just like a contrail of a plane doing a tight turn...?  Conditions are obviously ripe for cirrus/cumulo-cirrus.

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ChrLzs

As another oprical migraine enjoyer (I quite enjoy the patterns, now that I know what they are - when I first had one I couldn't believe my eyes...), I can vouch that they may vanish as you turn your vision or the scene changes dramatically.  If you were looking at a location and started seeing one, there would be little motivation to change your view.  If you then changed your gaze to say crticial instruments in the cockpit, the patterns may 'vanish' or become much less prominent.  Initially they tend to start at my peripheral vision, so they become far less noticable when you tightly concentrate on something.

And they do match the descritption as shimmering...  This is pretty close to what I see, although mine start from the outer areas and work inwards, and the centre area stays semi-transparent:

 

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joc

2069427021_circlecloud1.2.jpg.f17d88c685b8059bbc73db36a84902cc.jpg

37 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

Looks to me just like a contrail of a plane doing a tight turn...?  Conditions are obviously ripe for cirrus/cumulo-cirrus.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.  A 180 degree turn for a full 360.  Actually now that I'm looking closer at the pic it seems like there might be a plane up and to the right.  But wouldn't it take a jet to have a contrail?  And why would a jet ever do a tight 360 like that?  It makes sense...and it doesn't.

Oh wait...I totally forgot...  S K Y W R I T E R S...looks like maybe 3 planes.

Edited by joc
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stereologist
20 hours ago, Essan said:

Sounds like he saw a lenticular cloud to me - though not sure if they are capable of forming in the area.  

Lenticulars are common there as they are in other parts of the world. I saw several beautiful ones last night at sunset.

 

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stereologist
3 hours ago, Tom1200 said:

Sorry to be a bore but it's got nothing to do with escape velocity.

Escape velocity is that single value which, if an object is moving vertically at that speed with only gravity to slow it down (i.e. no air resistance, bird impacts, etc.), that object will leave Earth's gravitational influence.  Theoretically it will slow continuously, but the rate of slowing will fall as gravity's effect weakens with distance.  In an empty universe it would stop moving after an infinite distance; but in a real universe full of stuff that could never happen.

Nothing is launched at escape velocity.  Its value at Earth's surface is 11.2 km/s (ignoring air resistance) which is 25 000 mph.  We don't see spaceships launched at this speed - in fact they start at about... zero, standing still on the ground.  Rocket science is mainly about getting payloads beyond the Earth's atmosphere so they can orbit.  This is achieved through Newton Two: F = ma.  Produce a thrust greater than your weight and you get a small resultant force upwards that accelerates you up.  The rocket gains gravitational potential energy (and some kinetic energy) by using up chemical energy of the fuel.  (And loads of heat, light and sound are wasted too.)  

So one part of RabidMongoose's idea is valid - if you can use an alternative to rocket engines to lift the rocket some of the way into space you'll need a lot less fuel to get it into orbit.  As you point out - even on a platform floating 20 km up at the edge of the atmosphere gravity is virtually the same, so the rocket would still need to launch, using thrust, to continue its journey.  But this rocket needs less thrust, because it doesn't need to carry as much fuel, so it's lighter.

I could probably look up the equations and do the maths to see what difference it would make.  Intuitively I would suggest it would be substantial, but I couldn't guess how difficult and impractical a two-mile wide airship would be.  There must be good reasons why no one has tried this yet...

I understand that but at some point it must reach escape velocity at the position at which the object is located.

My point is that there is virtually no difference in the force of gravity and getting away from the Earth at 100,000 feet and on the surface. Gravity at the ISS is roughly 90% of what we experience at the surface.

The difference in fuel at the altitude mentioned is negligible. The difference in gravity is negligible. There has been no gain in horizontal speed which is needed to get into orbit.

Therefore, I'm guessing that the difference in fuel would be negligible.

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Jon the frog
On 12/7/2019 at 7:36 AM, joc said:

2069427021_circlecloud1.2.jpg.f17d88c685b8059bbc73db36a84902cc.jpg

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.  A 180 degree turn for a full 360.  Actually now that I'm looking closer at the pic it seems like there might be a plane up and to the right.  But wouldn't it take a jet to have a contrail?  And why would a jet ever do a tight 360 like that?  It makes sense...and it doesn't.

Oh wait...I totally forgot...  S K Y W R I T E R S...looks like maybe 3 planes.

Our old f-18 hornet are doing this all the time when doing dogfight training here...before catching fire and destroying some pines.

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ChrLzs
On 12/7/2019 at 1:39 PM, joc said:

1132616765_circlecloud1.jpg.fbfb28f53d0df54acc371c8bb4b6bb9f.jpg

  • morning around 9:00
  • western sky
  • 2019 December 2
  • my truck
  • 40' up on the overpass
  • no other witnesses

So I looked up and there it was...the circle in the sky.  This is not a trick photo or...trees in the woods sort of thing.  I have never seen this anywhere before...which is why I took a picture of it.  Any ideas?  Again...I really don't know what caused this...it was just very interesting so I took a picture of it. 

 

BTW, Given the large number of horizontal lines in that image, and the fact that it has the hallmarks of being over-processed, I'd be careful of making assumptions about the reality of those lines - they look like artefacts (from posterisation / lack of color depth / over sharpening / contrast enhancement).  Do you have the *original* image?

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joc
3 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

BTW, Given the large number of horizontal lines in that image, and the fact that it has the hallmarks of being over-processed, I'd be careful of making assumptions about the reality of those lines - they look like artefacts (from posterisation / lack of color depth / over sharpening / contrast enhancement).  Do you have the *original* image?

That is an enhanced image.  I cropped it and enhanced the color but...I took the photo.  It's real!  Like I said...I think it was skywriters, haven't seen any in a while but it used to be fairly common around Dallas.

On another note however...an interesting anecdote from earlier today!

Okay...so...I have known this guy for several years...on a professional basis...so, I don't really 'know' him...but he is a real nice guy and down to earth and all that....

but...today...we were talking on a job site and he told me about something that 'changed his life forever'...it happened when he was 11.  He says he and some friends were walking down their street  in their Farmers Branch neighborhood ( a  neighboring city that eventually Dallas swallowed up) and it was dark and suddenly....there was this bright light up in the sky....and then...he became very animated in describing what he saw...he said 71 people in the neighborhood also saw it...

....this bright light came down very fast and very low...and was making a loud humming sound.  He told me it was some kind of space craft...circular and about 2 football fields wide...he and his friends were so scared they hid under a trailer...and his neighbors saw it and were totally freaked out.   Then woosh...,it just ascended at an incredible speed and vanished!

I believe he is totally convinced of what he saw because he continued in a very animated state for about another half an hour explaining this and that about how they have always been here and that it is about to become a very major news story...i.e...the Navy pilots, etc.  We have talked on several occasions but never about this...

He said people have given him grief for so many years he just stopped talking about it...but for some reason he decided to tell me.  I've never really talked to anyone who ever saw anything like he did...so...it gave me a bit of a pause...interesting nonetheless.

 

 

Edited by joc
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joc

Thoughts?

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joc

Speculation:

They have always been here?

I have been pretty adamant about other civilizations in the universe not being able to traverse other star systems.

Suppose they can. Suppse they did. Suppose they exterminated the dinosaurs on Earth. Suppose they populated the Earth with beings of their own kind. Suppose we are them and they are our ancient ancestors and everything for the last 6000 years has been an attempt to bring us back into their fold.  From encounters with them over millinia, the religions of God's developed? 

A lot of speculating I know.

Suppose now it has all come full circle and they are about ready to make themselves known to all of us?

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ChrLzs
3 hours ago, joc said:

Speculation:

They have always been here?

I have been pretty adamant about other civilizations in the universe not being able to traverse other star systems.

Suppose they can. Suppse they did. Suppose they exterminated the dinosaurs on Earth. Suppose they populated the Earth with beings of their own kind. Suppose we are them and they are our ancient ancestors and everything for the last 6000 years has been an attempt to bring us back into their fold.  From encounters with them over millinia, the religions of God's developed? 

A lot of speculating I know.

Suppose now it has all come full circle and they are about ready to make themselves known to all of us?

Well, I'm ready to talk to my parents.. so .... where's the monolith?

310?cb=20111116211153

(from https://2001.fandom.com/wiki/Africus_Monolith )

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joc

One of the problems that I have had with 'star travel' is the distance between stars.  So...I have been reading alot about Einsteins theories.  i.e.  the warping of space and time.

So if a large mass creates a curvature of space...what about the Galaxies themselves.  Can we think of a Galaxy as a Monster Mass?  Wouldn't the galaxy itself warp space in a phenomenal way?  

And if a Black hole warps space as well, which I'm sure it must...how can we know how deep that warping goes?  I'm starting to consider the possibility of Interstellar travel via the warping of space.  Enter worm holes?

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ChrLzs
2 hours ago, joc said:

One of the problems that I have had with 'star travel' is the distance between stars.  So...I have been reading alot about Einsteins theories.  i.e.  the warping of space and time.

So if a large mass creates a curvature of space...what about the Galaxies themselves.  Can we think of a Galaxy as a Monster Mass?  Wouldn't the galaxy itself warp space in a phenomenal way?  

And if a Black hole warps space as well, which I'm sure it must...how can we know how deep that warping goes?  I'm starting to consider the possibility of Interstellar travel via the warping of space.  Enter worm holes?

Essentially, no.  Galaxies are much too widespread - you need a highly concentrated area aka black hole.  If you serach on gravitational lensing, you'll see some of the effects that galaxies can cause, but it's a gentle bending...

That doesn't mean there can't be a wormhole, it just means that it's a unlikely a galaxy would ever 'cause' one, except right at it's heart, where it's well known there are black holes..

The other problem with the whole wormhole thing is, how do you control what place and time you go to?  How do you get 'back'?  You'd only have to miss by ten minutes, and the earth would have moved hundreds of kilometres and you'd probably materialise in mid air ... or underground.  When you think about the logistics, it's just not gunna happen.  And if it was possible, why aren't we over-run by wormhole tourists from the future when they get the hang of it?

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joc
9 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

And if it was possible, why aren't we over-run by wormhole tourists from the future when they get the hang of it?

Maybe we are....

That's the contention at least of many ufo-ers...of which, I am not.  Just to be clear.  But I am attempting to have a clearer understanding of how the physics of all that might work.

So, another thought...

As I understand it, blackholes are at the center of a galaxy...and  on the other side of those black holes are white holes...which would be what?  The birth of a new galaxy?  

There are trillions of galaxies presumably.  Then there are trillions of black holes.  Then there would be trillions of white holes.  Can you tell me what you think of white holes?

 

Edited by joc

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