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Nearly 700,000 will lose food stamps

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RavenHawk
On 12/5/2019 at 6:42 AM, Phaeton80 said:

Nearly 36.4 million Americans in the "greatest economy ever" are on food stamps.

Under Obama, there were 46 million on food stamps.  95 million out of the workforce.  More than half of those have found jobs under Trump and with those jobs means people can get off of food stamps on their own.

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RavenHawk
21 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

How sad. Trump gives the wealthy an extra 2 trillion and takes the food stamps off the poor and unfortunate. 

You are comparing apples and oranges and inappropriately weaponize it against the free market.  Considering that the wealthy pay the lion's share of the tax burden, investing that $2 trillion into this nation's wealth, helps stabilize the nation.  You can't think of this kind of wealth as a means to merely waste through redistribution.  What is needed is wealth creation at the lowest levels.  Without creation, wealth is wasted.  Without creation, wealth is powerless.  The circumstance that the poor and unfortunate find themselves in is due by their own hand.  I'm not talking about those that run into bad luck or have a debilitating illness.  I'm talking about how they deal with those circumstances.  If you are given lemons, then make lemonade.  It's too easy for us to feel sorry for ourselves.  That is the mind killer.  We become dependent on others when we get to that level and easily manipulated.  We become no better that chattel.  When people go the other way and pull themselves up, they become dependent on no one and they become successful.  This is just simple human nature.  Under Obama, it was all about driving more people into dependency by degrading the economy (instead of rebuilding it) and telling people "you didn't build that".  Nice shot at self-reliance.  A whole generation is lost to that.  They believe that the government owes them everything.  Self-righteous, spoiled brats.  Unfortunately, it will be their children that will save the nation (or fortunately).  Trump brings a different attitude.  very positive and uplifting.  Such an attitude is far more infectious.  It always is.  Those that teach their children to hate Trump will become the poor and unfortunate.  Those that teach their children to be successful, using those like Trump as role models will be masters of the universe.  Trump is a self-promoter.  We all should aspire to that.  If the poor and unfortunate could learn to be self-promoters too, poverty would end.  But Socialism cannot exist in a successful society.  That’s why Trump is under attack.

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RavenHawk
On 12/5/2019 at 6:39 AM, ExpandMyMind said:

And what constitutes being disabled?

I would say it has more to do with the mind rather than the body.  Even those that are physically challenged can do many different things.  It’s those that cannot hold a job for whatever reason.  Usually, it is because of a poor work ethic.

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Big Jim
4 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

I would say it has more to do with the mind rather than the body.  Even those that are physically challenged can do many different things.  It’s those that cannot hold a job for whatever reason.  Usually, it is because of a poor work ethic.

 

It actually comes down to an assessment of an individual's ability to support themselves in the long term.  It's a combination of factors, not just one condition.  They take into account your skills and previous work.  Just because a person has the physical ability to do something doesn't mean they're going to be capable of doing it on an industrial level.  A ballerina who can no longer dance may be able to hold a hammer but they don't expect her to become a carpenter.  Most folks applying for disability do not have a poor work ethic.  Most have worked all their lives and then something happens or a disease develops that prevents them from continuing.  They also factor in a person's age and educational level.  The rules change at age 55, making it a bit easier to qualify, because the court, in its wisdom, realizes that by the time a person gets rehabilitated from their disability and reeducated in a new trade it will be time to retire.  I would contend that your assumption regarding mind over body is actually reversed. It's much easier to qualify on physical disability than mental.  It's been discussed elsewhere in this thread but Xrays and surgical scars are incontrovertible proof while a psychiatric report is a doctor's opinion.  

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The Truman show
3 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

You are comparing apples and oranges and inappropriately weaponize it against the free market.  Considering that the wealthy pay the lion's share of the tax burden, investing that $2 trillion into this nation's wealth, helps stabilize the nation.  You can't think of this kind of wealth as a means to merely waste through redistribution.  What is needed is wealth creation at the lowest levels.  Without creation, wealth is wasted.  Without creation, wealth is powerless.  The circumstance that the poor and unfortunate find themselves in is due by their own hand.  I'm not talking about those that run into bad luck or have a debilitating illness.  I'm talking about how they deal with those circumstances.  If you are given lemons, then make lemonade.  It's too easy for us to feel sorry for ourselves.  That is the mind killer.  We become dependent on others when we get to that level and easily manipulated.  We become no better that chattel.  When people go the other way and pull themselves up, they become dependent on no one and they become successful.  This is just simple human nature.  Under Obama, it was all about driving more people into dependency by degrading the economy (instead of rebuilding it) and telling people "you didn't build that".  Nice shot at self-reliance.  A whole generation is lost to that.  They believe that the government owes them everything.  Self-righteous, spoiled brats.  Unfortunately, it will be their children that will save the nation (or fortunately).  Trump brings a different attitude.  very positive and uplifting.  Such an attitude is far more infectious.  It always is.  Those that teach their children to hate Trump will become the poor and unfortunate.  Those that teach their children to be successful, using those like Trump as role models will be masters of the universe.  Trump is a self-promoter.  We all should aspire to that.  If the poor and unfortunate could learn to be self-promoters too, poverty would end.  But Socialism cannot exist in a successful society.  That’s why Trump is under attack.

Generally as a net contributing tax payer I'm sympathetic to your argument. Often i wonder where my tax dollars go and i find it kinda disturbing also that i pay so much and generally feel used for trying to get ahead and not rely on the state. In Australia we have whats called an end of year tax assessment notice that obviously tell us what we need to pay accompanied with a you beaut pie and bar graph that shows exactly where our tax dollars are going. Off the top of my head, universal health and welfare are by far the biggest budgets followed by an ever growing defence budget and education. Now i know for a fact that your country has a less generous all inclusive health and welfare package for low income groups and America pays proportional less than Australia for these services that we take for granted. My point is that if you provided these basic income saving amenities then i wouldn't really have a problem with giving the higher end of town a most generous tax break. But thats not the case and thats my gripe.  

But reading the second part of your reply left me wondering whether you just quoted me for the sake of up-selling the merits of Trumps presidency. 

Jobs have increased under Trumps term. No mistaking that. Was the tax break responsible ? well not so sure its wise to draw a line better the two. When Obama actually added more than 1 million more jobs than Trump did over the same time frame. Did Obama give the wealthy a tax break to do better numbers? No he didn't. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2019/07/05/trump-is-falling-almost-1-million-jobs-short-vs-obama/#6b5c09308caa

Did Obama offer any less of a role model ? No he didn't. If anything id say he was more of a role model to the poor and down trodden. 

Is it fair to call the democrats socialists ? Again no since the last Obama administration added less debt in 8 years than Trump did to the U.S. than Trump did in 3 years. Free trade last i looked was the last real bastion of capitalism. Under "capitalist" Trump free trade has been browbeaten with scare mongering and tariffs. 

I think the tag socialist doesn't have any real relevancy anymore in most western nations, especially yours. Thou populist tendencies bordering on socialism like those shown by Trump are alive and well.    

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The Truman show
2 hours ago, Big Jim said:

It actually comes down to an assessment of an individual's ability to support themselves in the long term.  It's a combination of factors, not just one condition.  They take into account your skills and previous work.  Just because a person has the physical ability to do something doesn't mean they're going to be capable of doing it on an industrial level.  A ballerina who can no longer dance may be able to hold a hammer but they don't expect her to become a carpenter.  Most folks applying for disability do not have a poor work ethic.  Most have worked all their lives and then something happens or a disease develops that prevents them from continuing.  They also factor in a person's age and educational level.  The rules change at age 55, making it a bit easier to qualify, because the court, in its wisdom, realizes that by the time a person gets rehabilitated from their disability and reeducated in a new trade it will be time to retire.  I would contend that your assumption regarding mind over body is actually reversed. It's much easier to qualify on physical disability than mental.  It's been discussed elsewhere in this thread but Xrays and surgical scars are incontrovertible proof while a psychiatric report is a doctor's opinion.  

Education is big business these days. It costs a helluva lot to put your kids through school and then no guarantee that they will prosper. Retraining workers and jobs is a big challenge. Finding good paying jobs for these people even more so. The poor wherever you go are trapped in this vicious circle. Thats the real challenge that Trump's tax cuts to the wealthy fail to address. 

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5d7f75372e22af0fcf536f06-1200.jpg5d7f75372e22af0fcf536f06-1200.jpg

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The Truman show

Looking at the above charts the real takeaway is that Obama set some pretty impressive foundations after inheriting a very shaky economy from the republicans. Trump is riding a Democrat wave, nothing more. 

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The trade deficit chart above @RavenHawk clearly shows that for all Trump's big talk he has not delivered on his promises of cutting the trade deficit. Again, its interesting to note that Obama did a better job than republican Bush and is on tract to eclipse big talking Trump. 

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Manwon Lender
20 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

you see the problem with what you think about those on food stamps is your definition of ill.

Please understand I know I have a strong opinion about this subject but I grew up very poor, and I made choices that changed that for myself and my family. Everyone that isn't mentally ill or disabled should work, there is work out there for everyone, just because they made bad choices or will not except some forms of employment is not my problem. I should not have to pay taxes for those that won't help themselves.

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Manwon Lender
21 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

I think you understand just fine when i say that people without basic living essentials like food and shelter really don't have much to lose. I wonder if anyone has ever made a connection between poverty and crime.  

I grew up in the Ghetto in St. Louis, MO I understand the connection between poverty and crime most likely better than you I lived there for 17 years of my life. There are poor people and their are criminals hiding among them. The poor people who by the way are honest, and hard working can not be compared to the scumbag criminals. A thief is a thief and always will be a thief, poor people would be insulted by being compared to a thief or criminal. 

In my opinion there is no connection between the poor and scumbag criminals.

 

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Manwon Lender
16 hours ago, Doug1029 said:

I wonder about people who think that a person who gets $3600 a year in Food Stamps with which to feed his family is a freeloader, yet have no problem with Exxon getting several billion dollars a year for essentially doing nothing.

Royal Dutch Shell:  $1.79 billion in subsidies (They're 25th on the list.)

Boeing:  $14.9 billion in subsidies

Intel:  $6 billion in subsidies

Alcoa:  $5.9 billion in subsidies

Foxxcom Technology:  $4.8 billion in subsidies

Here's the list of the top 100 freeloading companies:  https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/top-100-parents?fbclid=IwAR0GEDJkX3jrJgCcUHlAABQdthaGcY6LLkRd0LpuB4VYJKCI6Agl-dCH2OQ

I wouldn't necessarily eliminate ALL subsidies.  Some of them support important work.  But I wouldn't mind sharply reducing them.

Doug

I think they need to get a job and feed their family,  unless they have some form of disability. There is work out there for everyone, all they have to do is apply. It is easy to game the system, it's easy not to take work because you don't like that job. Which also makes easy to collect government support and not even be required to find employment. 

Like I said there is work out there for everyone, all people need to do is take the responsibility and except it the poor can't pick and choose.

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Manwon Lender
13 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:


Id rather starve than endanger my life and limbs being forced to engage/kill other poor people whos nation I am invading in a desert on the other side of the globe, based on a deceitful humanitarian narrative - which couldnt be interpreted as 'defending or being in the interest of my nation' by any measure.

..And for a lot of poor American families, the army is indeed the only way out. Which is a very, very sad state of affairs, especially for a nation that prides itsself as being 'the light of the world'. Irony is, the 'commanders in chief' leading the US into these deceitful wars who are not in the interests of the American People often didnt serve a day in their lives, let alone in a war.. like a true class society. Crazy sh*

Thats not to say I dont respect your service, this is just my opinion.

Your opinion is good to go, but because you would rather starve really means nothing to me because I would not put my family in that situation. As far being forced to kill other poor people no one in the US Military is forced to do anything. They make the choice of joining the military knowing what could happen, there is no forced to it. 

The point is the military is a way to pull yourself out of poverty, feed and educate your family, acquire a free education for yourself ( I went from a high school education to 2 credits shy of a Masters Degree) and the government paid for it all.

I did a little back ground on you, I know why you always defend the Middle Eastern people and countries, and hate anyone who opposes them. Your digital finger print tells it all, however it's not my place to put your information out on a public forum so I will leave it at that. So please save the hate you love to spot you secret is safe with me.:devil:

Quote

 

Everyday people are born poor, and they must make the decision that will improve their lives or to stay poor like when they were born. So everyone that isn't disabled has a choice, they can do like you would and starve themselves and their families or they act like an adult and do what it takes to improve themselves and to give their families a better way of life. However, we both know you can't do that where you live.

To me it means one thing, you work or sit on your as$ and never improve the lives of your family and starve, it's really that simple.

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Phaeton80
Quote

I did a little back ground on you, I know why you always defend the Middle Eastern people and countries, and hate anyone who opposes them. Your digital finger print tells it all, however it's not my place to put your information out on a public forum so I will leave it at that. So please save the hate you love to spot you secret is safe with me.


:lol: Dude, tell me all about it! Whats my 'secret'?

Seriously, if you really did a check of my posts youd know theres no hate, only rational critique firmly based in facts (and concern). Stop being so childish trying to project that as 'hate'. I know youre emotionally invested with the USA, but thats no reason to project me in the opposite corner.

 

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Phaeton80
9 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Under Obama, there were 46 million on food stamps.  95 million out of the workforce.  More than half of those have found jobs under Trump and with those jobs means people can get off of food stamps on their own.


Youre making the (false) assumption I think the lower classes were doing great under Obama.. I dont. 46 million or 36 million, both are a travesty, especially for a nation which likes to think itsself as the shining light of the Western world..

Quote

About one sixth of all children in the U.S. lived in households with SNAP benefits in 2017

Approximately 20 million households with 40 million individuals used the SNAP program in Fiscal Year 2018, according to data from the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

https://econofact.org/snap-benefits-and-the-government-shutdown


So instead of agreeing this is a sad state of affairs (which it quite obviously is), you interpret it as an attack on 'your president', thinking I am somehow 'pro Obama', or Im implying Obama did better. None of which was stated, implied, or alluded to.

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RavenHawk
4 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:


Youre making the (false) assumption I think the lower classes were doing great under Obama..

That’s a false assumption because I made no such statement.  I didn’t even imply it.  The lower classes were doing terrible under Obama and he was doing his best to bow beat the middle classes down.  He was trying to turn the entire nation into an inner city (Plantation), where you only have the ruling elite and the serfs.

 

I dont.

Then you’re a contradiction.  You specifically spouted your numbers to disparage what Trump has been able to do to improve everyone’s circumstances.

 

46 million or 36 million, both are a travesty,

That is entirely relative.  Under Obumer, the number was increasing.  Under Trump, the number is decreasing.  It is something that isn’t going to change overnight.  It is that simple and we’ll have at least 5 more years of declining numbers.  But here’s the thing, in a healthy economy unemployment will naturally float between that 3% to 5% range.  The actual number will be depended on the nation.  So it is possible that the number could eventually reach say 20 million??  At this point, you could probably break this number into 2 groups.  You’ll have those that are truly disabled and need the assistance and those that are temporarily unemployed.  In a healthy economy most only stay unemployed for less than 3 months and need aid temporarily.  This second group is constantly in transition.  And no one stays on it permanently, especially people that know “they can build it”!

 

especially for a nation which likes to think itsself as the shining light of the Western world..

We are still a shining light and as long as we stay true to the original intent of the Constitution, we will always be.  Being European, I don’t expect you to understand that.  It is beyond you.  You have been bow beat for generations now, you know no better.

 

So instead of agreeing this is a sad state of affairs (which it quite obviously is),

 

It is quite the opposite.  It is a very positive state of affairs and getting better.  And that is probably the great takeaway here.  Obumer brought everyone down.  That is what Socialism does.  Trump raises everybody’s positiveness.  There is no comparison.  Even those with TDS are so energetic to try to remove him from office.  It won’t happen but it will be fun watching them make fools of themselves trying.  If they would only turn that energy into running the country, we’d solve a lot of problems.  The best thing that describes this is Golda Meir’s quote about how the Palestinian hates Israel more than they love their own children.  If that’s not it, it is very close.

 

you interpret it as an attack on 'your president',

I don’t know how else that can be interpreted as?!  As I stated above, it is a matter of perspective.  You’ll either see it positively or negatively.  You’ve chosen to view it negatively.

 

thinking I am somehow 'pro Obama', or Im implying Obama did better.

I can only go off of your words and actions.  There is no gray area here.  You’re either for or against.  And it is your beliefs (your character) that determine that.

 

None of which was stated, implied, or alluded to.

You did a poor job of hiding it.

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Manwon Lender
6 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:


:lol: Dude, tell me all about it! Whats my 'secret'?

Seriously, if you really did a check of my posts youd know theres no hate, only rational critique firmly based in facts (and concern). Stop being so childish trying to project that as 'hate'. I know youre emotionally invested with the USA, but thats no reason to project me in the opposite corner.

 

No I did a check on you, not your posts so like said I know all about you. As far projecting you in the opposite corner you do that all by yourself without anyone's help. You know all that crap you spot about the hidden Governments and the World order, well it really does exist and that's how I know about you. 

When people like you attack anything that isn't Middle Eastern there are people watching and listening.:ph34r: So please continue to think your safe from intrusion on the internet, your not the free electron you think you are traveling through cyberspace.

Have a wonderful day and go stick your finger in a dyke to plugg up a leak, whoops you can't do that where you are, can you not enough water is there.:ph34r:

So please smile some more!

Edited by Manwon Lender

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RavenHawk
10 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

The trade deficit chart above @RavenHawk clearly shows that for all Trump's big talk he has not delivered on his promises of cutting the trade deficit. Again, its interesting to note that Obama did a better job than republican Bush and is on tract to eclipse big talking Trump. 

That looks about right.  Since we’ve been conceding to China, even before Bush, we’ve been running a $500 billion deficit with China alone.  What you see from Obama on is basically normal fluctuation.  But everybody knows about the Trade War that is just on the verge.  And because of that, the deficit will get worse before it gets better.  And this is a war we can win if we have the will.  The American people are still a tough lot.  We can’t continue hemorrhaging $500 billion a year to our greatest threat.  We need to start fighting back now, here, before it moves to the battlefield.  If we don’t, your chart isn’t going to amount to anything.

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Phaeton80
19 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

No I did a check on you, not your posts so like said I know all about you. As far projecting you in the opposite corner you do that all by yourself without anyone's help. You know all that crap you spot about the hidden Governments and the World order, well it really does exist and that's how I know about you. 

When people like you attack anything that isn't Middle Eastern there are people watching and listening.:ph34r: So please continue to think your safe from intrusion on the internet, your not the free electron you think you are traveling through cyberspace.

Have a wonderful day and go stick your finger in a dyke to plugg up a leak, whoops you can't do that where you are, can you not enough water is there.:ph34r:

So please smile some more!


?! :huh:

Is that right Manwon, put your money where your mouth is. I explicitly allow you to divulge this 'secret info' you have on me, super curious!

 

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Phaeton80
43 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:


...


:mellow:

Oh lawd.. where do these people come from.. Something in the water over there?

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Doug1029
9 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Like I said there is work out there for everyone, all people need to do is take the responsibility and except it the poor can't pick and choose.

My daughter is permanently and totally disabled, yet has been turned down for SS Disability.  She is living on Food Stamps which tRUMP is terminating.  I pay for her health care.  From where I sit, the system is corrupt.  And ending Food Stamps just makes it more corrupt.  But what do you expect from a corrupt president?

Doug

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Manwon Lender
1 hour ago, Phaeton80 said:


?! :huh:

Is that right Manwon, put your money where your mouth is. I explicitly allow you to divulge this 'secret info' you have on me, super curious!

 

Have nice day.:tu:

 

34 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

My daughter is permanently and totally disabled, yet has been turned down for SS Disability.  She is living on Food Stamps which tRUMP is terminating.  I pay for her health care.  From where I sit, the system is corrupt.  And ending Food Stamps just makes it more corrupt.  But what do you expect from a corrupt president?

Doug

I also had a daughter who was also completely INCAP, she survived for 32 years. I am sorry to hear your situation, we did not experience those same problems, maybe it was because I was in the military. But we received all SSI benefits except Food Stamps, because we didn't need them.

Again sorry for your situation.

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