Did Jesus Exist?

[XenoFish]

9 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Even high stress can trigger the brain to hallucinate. 

I'm running off 2 hours of sleep as is.

[Will Due]

41 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

To be frank, I don't care.

I feel I have pretty good reasons to believe the story is as valid as any other fairy tale.

If the creator of the universe is going to punish me because I have insufficient reason to take, on faith, an utterly unbelievable story seriously so be it.

I have no need or want to delude myself.

If you told me you'd give me a million dollars if I gave you my name, address and social security number, I wouldn't do it.

There is no reason at all for me to believe there is a prize after death for believing a certain way. So I choose to not even bother buying a ticket.

I'm comfortable knowing how I have lived my life. If god wants to punish me for eternity for coming to the conclusions that I have, so be it.

 

I'm a rebel. I follow Jesus (the rebel) like he suggested I do. So I dismiss the information that says God punishes. It makes no sense. It's a lie. I'm not stupid.

God does not punish anyone.

People punish themselves when they fail to participate. Fail to co-operate. Fail to get on board. They punish themselves because there's no getting on board a "ship" after it's sailed and the reality presents itself later that no end of effort was made to see to it they were aboard.

 

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Will Due

[Will Due]

24 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

To be frank, I don't care.

 

Well maybe that's the great divide.

There are those who will just not care. So they won't get aboard when it's time. It is a free country.

But I suppose that's the cost for a ticket. 

To care.

 

 

[cormac mac airt]

35 minutes ago, Will Due said:

I'm a rebel. I follow Jesus (the rebel) like he suggested I do. So I dismiss the information that says God punishes. It makes no sense. It's a lie. I'm not stupid.

God does not punish anyone.

People punish themselves when they fail to participate. Fail to co-operate. Fail to get on board. They punish themselves because there's no getting on board a "ship" after it's sailed and the reality presents itself later that no end of effort was made to see to it they were aboard.

Then you dismiss most of the Bible since it says exactly that that God DOES punish anyone, both individuals and entire lineages alike, for any and every reason imaginable. Stupidity doesn't even come close in regards to believing otherwise. 

cormac

[Will Due]

1 minute ago, cormac mac airt said:

Then you dismiss most of the Bible since it says exactly that that God DOES punish anyone, both individuals and entire lineages alike, for any and every reason imaginable. Stupidity doesn't even come close in regards to believing otherwise. 

cormac

 

I see. So that's why you're promoting stupidity? 

 

 

[cormac mac airt]

12 minutes ago, Will Due said:

I see. So that's why you're promoting stupidity? 

Reflecting again, or is your reading comprehension that inadequate? 
 

cormac

[Will Due]

1 minute ago, cormac mac airt said:

Reflecting again, or is your reading comprehension that inadequate? 
 

cormac

 

Do you have kids? Did you punish them for infractions?

Or were you loving, understanding, merciful and forgiving?

The rebel Jesus toppled the old errant ideas about God being a tyrant. 

You don't see that?

 

 

[Crikey]

27 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Then you dismiss most of the Bible since it says exactly that that God DOES punish anyone, both individuals and entire lineages alike..

Think of God as a "law of the universe", and if people choose to break that law they go up the spout.

For example one law is "You must like my Son", but if people don't like him there's no way they'll get into that great Gated Community in the Sky, or it'd be a case of "oops there goes the neighbourhood"..

[Crikey]

8 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

It is perfectly obvious that this alleged god of the scriptures cannot exist..

 

Some scientists might not agree with you..

 

[cormac mac airt]

13 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Do you have kids? Did you punish them for infractions?

Or were you loving, understanding, merciful and forgiving?

The rebel Jesus toppled the old errant ideas about God being a tyrant. 

You don't see that?

That argument doesn’t wash since his father WAS THE SAME GOD. The only thing that was done was to put a better spin on the story than it deserved. Nice try though. 
 

cormac

[Crikey]

8 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

I also have trained myself to be a good meditator and lucid dreamer.. I have studied a number of mysteries, and the greatest genuine mystery for me is human consciousness, and science is closing in on it rapidly.

Perhaps our "reality" is a "dream" or "illusion"?

"All that we see or seem, is but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allen Poe

We could further speculate that  perhaps Jesus was a 'Master of the Art of Dream Manipulation', able to bend "reality" to perform what looked like "miracles" to people?

He said WE could do it too, if we believed we could, for example perhaps prayer nudges reality in the direction we want it to go?

[Rlyeh]

1 hour ago, Will Due said:

 

I'm a rebel. I follow Jesus (the rebel) like he suggested I do. So I dismiss the information that says God punishes. It makes no sense. It's a lie. I'm not stupid.

God does not punish anyone.

People punish themselves when they fail to participate. Fail to co-operate. Fail to get on board. They punish themselves because there's no getting on board a "ship" after it's sailed and the reality presents itself later that no end of effort was made to see to it they were aboard.

The Bible isn't true but the Urantia Book is.

[Rlyeh]

22 minutes ago, Crikey said:

Think of God as a "law of the universe", and if people choose to break that law they go up the spout.

That works if you don't mind a corrupt judge who breaks the law.

 

22 minutes ago, Crikey said:

For example one law is "You must like my Son", but if people don't like him there's no way they'll get into that great Gated Community in the Sky, or it'd be a case of "oops there goes the neighbourhood"..

Isn't another one "slaves obey your cruel masters"?  Great community.

[Crikey]

27 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

That works if you don't mind a corrupt judge who breaks the law.Isn't another one "slaves obey your cruel masters"?  Great community.

 

1- God's law is that there's no way jesus-rejecters will make it through the pearlies, there's nothing "corrupt" about that, it's simple common sense.

2- As for slavers, they're going up the spout too..

"He that steals a man and sells him, or if he be found in his hands, he shall surely be put to death " (Exodus. 21:16; Deuteronomy 24:7)

[+Sherapy]

2 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

I am.

How you're crucifying me proves it. 

 

 

You are free to waste your time, but don’t waste mine. 
 

Do you have anything in the way of historical evidence that Jesus exists or you just trolling?
 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Sherapy

[Rlyeh]

8 minutes ago, Crikey said:

 

1- God's law is that there's no way jesus-rejecters will make it through the pearlies, there's nothing "corrupt" about that, it's simple common sense.

Nothing sensible about needing death to forgive people for the sins of their ancestors.  That's just Yahweh's lust for death.

 

Quote

2- As for slavers, they're going up the spout too..

"He that steals a man and sells him, or if he be found in his hands, he shall surely be put to death " (Exodus. 21:16; Deuteronomy 24:7)

Nope, non-Israelites are fair game.

Leviticus 25

"44 As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves. 45 You may also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you, and from their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. 46 You may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property. These you may treat as slaves, but as for your fellow Israelites, no one shall rule over the other with harshness."

Edited January 24, 2020 by Rlyeh

[Crikey]

8 hours ago, eight bits said:

..that's simply BS..

But if the gospels are BS why didn't a single person from the priests, the romans or the people ever came forward to say "The gospels are baloney, all that stuff never happened"

As it is, nobody ever came forward to say it, why is that?

[Crikey]

13 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Leviticus 25- "44 As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves....."

 

Think "prisoners of war". Even in WW2 POW's were often put to work..

But anyway let's fast-forward to the New Testament centuries later for a list of who's going up the spout-

"We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers, and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God" (1 Tim 1:9)

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Crikey

[Crikey]

24 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Nothing sensible about needing death to forgive people for the sins of their ancestors.  That's just Yahweh's lust for death.

 

No matter how nasty their ancestors were, people still have the free choice to play the "get-out card" by simply accepting Jesus instead of following the ways of their forebears..

"Jesus saved you from the empty way of life handed you by your forefathers" (1 Peter 1:18 )

[Crikey]

2 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

Then you dismiss most of the Bible since it says exactly that that God DOES punish anyone, both individuals and entire lineages alike, for any and every reason imaginable.

 

Whoa! If anybody's a true Christian (ie somebody who likes Jesus) there's NO WAY HOZAY that bouncer Jesus is gonna say "On yer bikes, vamoose!" when they turn up at the pearlies..

Jesus said "Whoever comes to me i'll never turn away" (John 6:37)  

As for Jesus-rejecters, there ain't no way they'll be able to gatecrash their way in-

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Crikey

[Crikey]

58 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

..Do you have anything in the way of historical evidence that Jesus exists..?

Apart from the 27 separate books of the New T, there's also a truckload of historical accounts that never made it into the bible, how many more do you need?..

Check 'em-

Gospel of Thomas

Gospel of Marcion

Gospel of Basilides

Gospel of Truth (Valentinian)

Gospel of the Four Heavenly Realms

Gospel of Mary

Gospel of Judas

Greek Gospel of the Egyptians

Gospel of Philip

Pseudo-Gospel of the Twelve

Gospel of Perfection

Jewish-Christian gospels

Gospel of the Hebrews

Gospel of the Nazarenes

Gospel of the Ebionites

Gospel of the Twelve

Infancy gospels[edit]

Armenian Infancy Gospel[citation needed]

Protoevangelium of James

Libellus de Nativitate Sanctae Mariae (Gospel of the Nativity of Mary)

Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew

History of Joseph the Carpenter

Infancy Gospel of Thomas

Latin Infancy Gospel

Syriac Infancy Gospel

Gospel of the Lots of Mary (Coptic collection of 37 oracles; ca. A.D. 500)

Partially preserved gospels

Gospel of Peter

Gospel of Eve

Gospel of Mani

Gospel of the Saviour (also known as the Unknown Berlin gospel)

Coptic Gospel of the Twelve

Reconstructed gospels

Secret Gospel of Mark

Gospel of Matthias

Gospel of Cerinthus

Gospel of Apelles

Gospel of Valentinus

Gospel of the Encratites

Gospel of Andrew

Gospel of Barnabas – not to be confused with the 16th century pro-Moslem work of the same name

Gospel of Bartholomew

Gospel of Hesychius

Gospel of Lucius

Gospel of Merinthus

Gospel of the Adversary of the Law and the Prophets

Memoirs of the Apostles

Papyrus Egerton 2

Fayyum Fragment

Oxyrhynchus Papyri

Gospel of Jesus' Wife

Papyrus Berolinensis 11710

Papyrus Cairensis 10735

Papyrus Merton 51

Strasbourg Fragment

Gospel of the Seventy

Gospel of Nicodemus

Gospel of Barnabas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gospels

[cormac mac airt]

31 minutes ago, Crikey said:

Whoa! If anybody's a true Christian (ie somebody who likes Jesus) there's NO WAY HOZAY that bouncer Jesus is gonna say "On yer bikes, vamoose!" when they turn up at the pearlies..

Jesus said "Whoever comes to me i'll never turn away" (John 6:37)  

As for Jesus-rejecters, there ain't no way they'll be able to gatecrash their way in-

Like I said, just a new spin. 

Quote

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.  John 14:6

So apparently your god went from being omnipotent and omniscient to needing a middleman. That’s politics for you. 
 

cormac

[Crikey]

28 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

So apparently your god went from being omnipotent and omniscient to needing a middleman.

1-  "Omniscient" means "all-knowing" but God SUSPENDS his omniscience on this testing ground called earth. After all, if he knew the test results beforehand it wouldn't be a test..

"Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life.." (James 1:12)

 

2- "God is spirit.." (John 4:24), so because spirits can't talk, he had to use Jesus to speak through-

Jesus said - "For I have not spoken on my own authority; but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak" (John 12:49)

Edited January 24, 2020 by Crikey

[cormac mac airt]

9 minutes ago, Crikey said:

1-  "Omniscient" means "all-knowing" but God SUSPENDS his omniscience on this testing ground called earth. After all, if he knew the test results beforehand it wouldn't be a test..

"Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life.." (James 1:12)

 

2- "God is spirit.." (John 4:24), so because spirits can't talk, he had to use Jesus to speak through-

Jesus said - "For I have not spoken on my own authority; but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak" (John 12:49)

The first is a lie as it’s unattested anywhere in the Bible and as to the second, assuming for arguments sake Jesus actually said that, what would you expect a middleman to say otherwise? 
 

cormac

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Crikey said:

Apart from the 27 separate books of the New T, there's also a truckload of historical accounts that never made it into the bible, how many more do you need?..

 

None of them first hand....and the later gnostic stuff is pure rubbish.