Did Jesus Exist?

[XenoFish]

The only thing prayer does is make someone feel good while doing nothing.

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

1 hour ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Wow. The olde "you can't possibly understand my religion unless you totally embrace it and believe it" argument.

The belter response would have been "I believe what I believe because it pleases me", rather than assume the holier than thou position you have voiced.

Once people start down the  "you can't possibly understand my religion unless you totally embrace it and believe it" you know they know that they can't really rationally justify their own beliefs.

[Debra F. II]

5 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Once people start down the  "you can't possibly understand my religion unless you totally embrace it and believe it" you know they know that they can't really rationally justify their own beliefs.

Our justification, rationalization, our reasoning, and understanding is based on a spiritual path and based on a relationship. And our learning and our understanding of it continues with growth.

It goes much deeper than the surface, when I was on top of the surface, I didnt understand and I questioned it. Once my questions were answered and I had the proof i needed, only then did my spiritial journey really began and true compassion and understanding for it became clearer.

It may be hard for others to understand it but we do, even if others think we don't and when others tell us we cant justify our own belief, still nothing else matters becasue we know that isnt even our battle to fight.

[Debra F. II]

On 12/19/2019 at 6:29 AM, Rlyeh said:

How much of the Bible is historical?  And historians wrote it?  That's a new one.

 

You know the Gospels were authored anonymously decades after the alleged events?

I get that but it still doesnt change what I know, seen, hear & feel.

[Festina]

34 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

The only thing prayer does is make someone feel good while doing nothing.

One needs to Know how to “Pray” and Where and What to Pray “To”. 

There are commands and requests.  Having Discernment and awareness is necessary is order to get results.  

I.e. “Oh gods, , give me Knowledge and Wisdom so that I may help mankind! ”  Oh, gods, give me I deserve!  These are good Prayers.  

There are many gods, but only one Deity. 

 

 

 

[XenoFish]

12 minutes ago, Festina Lente said:

One needs to Know how to “Pray” and Where and What to Pray “To”. 

There are commands and requests.  Having Discernment and awareness is necessary is order to get results.  

I.e. “Oh gods, , give me Knowledge and Wisdom so that I may help mankind! ”  Oh, gods, give me I deserve!  These are good Prayers.  

There are many gods, but only one Deity. 

 

 

 

That's is just something I call a 'magical placebo effect'. Nothing more than prettied up affirmations tapping into the subconscious. 

[Festina]

8 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

That's is just something I call a 'magical placebo effect'. Nothing more than prettied up affirmations tapping into the subconscious. 

You may call it whatever You like.

[Festina]

9 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

That's is just something I call a 'magical placebo effect'. Nothing more than prettied up affirmations tapping into the subconscious. 

We live in a Magical Universe.  For Better  or for Worse — Numbers. 

 

[Habitat]

8 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Nothing more than

You certainly seem "nothing more than" a serial negativist. Well, ostensibly, but the endless repetition of your mantra is what tells a different story, a story of doubt. First step to resolution, admit you have doubts, there can be no progress without that.

[Festina]

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

The only thing prayer does is make someone feel good while doing nothing.

Most of the “prayers” and rituals  of the masses are useless for the creation of a greater good , as they are  selfish —  like hecatombs [countless numbers of which are being performed every day, to this day]  which only attract vampiric entities which in turn wreak havoc and those that request healing to save them from death, which in reality is life.  Time is time. 

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Festina Lente

[Jodie.Lynne]

54 minutes ago, Debra F. II said:

Once my questions were answered and I had the proof i needed,

If I may ask, what was this 'proof' that you received?

[XenoFish]

18 minutes ago, Festina Lente said:

We live in a Magical Universe.  For Better  or for Worse — Numbers. 

 

People are magical thinkers, the universe has nothing to do with what people wish.

[Jodie.Lynne]

1 hour ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Once people start down the  "you can't possibly understand my religion unless you totally embrace it and believe it" you know they know that they can't really rationally justify their own beliefs.

When one "Knows" they have the answer, they stop searching.

[Festina]

WANTS  —  not desires.  

The Universe — are we all not a part of it?  

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Festina Lente

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Festina Lente said:

There are many gods, but only one Deity. 

Gods, angels and demons are all the personification of nature, human nature and empowered ancestors given life and strength by collective consciousness. 

People create their own gods. 

[Jodie.Lynne]

1 hour ago, Festina Lente said:

There are many gods, but only one Deity. 

And which one is that?

[onlookerofmayhem]

2 hours ago, Debra F. II said:

And you are right this is a discussion forum, not a whipping post or a place to cut others down at and not a place to take anger and bitterness out on others that you cant relate to and who you disagree with.

I did not whip or cut you down. I questioned your assertions. 

I am not bitter or angry. I can relate to any human being even if I disagree with them.

You are in a forum discussing Jesus and the historical evidence for him.

You made a few very bold assertions in your post and I challenged them. 

2 hours ago, Debra F. II said:

It may be nonsense and inaccurate to you but it makes sense to me 100%.

Yet you refuse to clarify how and why you've come to that 100% certainty. That's fine. But what is the point of joining a discussion that you want no part of?

2 hours ago, Debra F. II said:

I am refuseing to play into the negitivity by not responding and i do have that right. It's not because I cant answer you and give you my opinion; it is because I'd rather you be civil to me than make nasty, cut down comments.

This is nothing but a hollow excuse. I have not been negative, nasty or uncivil. You seem to be overly sensitive to the instance of your ideas being questioned. 

That you perceive my inquiries as an attack is typical of believers that cannot adequately justify their opinions. While understandable, it garners little respect.

2 hours ago, Debra F. II said:

I'm sure I'm not the only one praying for you even if you didnt ask and dont want them.

I don't see how you could possibly be sure about that, but okay.

2 hours ago, Debra F. II said:

I am sorry you feel that you don't need God, that is your choice. You are the only one that will be burnt  by your flames of bitterness and anger.

Ah. So the true colors shine through. You feel sorry for me because you think I'll be punished for my disbelief? I'm not angry or bitter. I don't see where you are coming up with such an evaluation.  All I did was challenge your assertions. The main one had to do with the bible being a historical document and being written by historians. I disagree. 

2 hours ago, Debra F. II said:

It doesn't mean that I wont discuss future topics with you.

Great. Hopefully it will be more productive than you asserting things and running away from a discussion.

2 hours ago, Debra F. II said:

I hear your pain and I feel for you and I want you to find peace, love, hope and joy. I was there once and questioned but haven't needed to for years now and it feels great!

I'm not in any pain. I have peace, love, hope and joy. I don't know why you are assuming I don't. That is extremely presumptuous of you.

[Debra F. II]

46 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

If I may ask, what was this 'proof' that you received?

Proof: Countless prayers being answered, seeing with my own eyes miracles, cheating death on a few accounts, feeling heavenly peace that I'd NEVER felt before, phyically, spiritually and mentally and in that order.

After I came to this point and stopped questioning, then I developed my true faith and It was and is strengthened daily. But I had to learn accepting the weirdness of it (because if you never had it then once you do, THINGS change! You can feel the shifting from within your gut and heart and the things you did in the past you dont because only then do you know they were wrong.) Also, The love and the gift of knowing whole heartedly 100% that I need not worry about ANYTHING! and that if and when I do, that the strength I have and will be given, to conquer whatever is before me, is a gift from God.

Being able to trust my God and His power is unexplainable, I dont understand it, I dont claim to, I only do the best I can. I just know what I know through the grace of God.

And allowing and letting Him guide me along in life is fun, its exciting and better than most of my previous choices; at a time I thought I knew what I was doing and doing it alone without his grace. I know now I never was alone I just wasn't asking him for help & I didnt think I needed it.

 As I learn and build my relationship with my God so does my faith and trust in him. To me this is what I call proof and all the proof I need (making a long story short).

44 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

When one "Knows" they have the answer, they stop searching.

lol I didnt mean to make it sound like I have all the answers, by no means! I had a set of my own questions and one by one as i was receiving answers, I was convinced more and more. Now that those are no longer questions, I search in a different manner, on a different level of spirituality. I am now and have been for a long time, I think what some people call,..., spiritually awake.

[jmccr8]

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

People are magical thinkers, the universe has nothing to do with what people wish.

Hi Xeno

Absolutely one must work for a goal not hope for it pray all you want but if you do not strive to attain a positive goal then your wasting your time. To me prayer is goal enforcement for what your strive for not passively wish for. To be honest I did say grace because I was thankful to have food and asked that it nourish my body and because of positive re-inforcement it seemed to work. Not not that I gave thanks to a god just thanks that I had what I had and make it fruitful.

jmccr8

[psyche101]

3 hours ago, Debra F. II said:

Our justification, rationalization, our reasoning, and understanding is based on a spiritual path and based on a relationship. And our learning and our understanding of it continues with growth.

It goes much deeper than the surface, when I was on top of the surface, I didnt understand and I questioned it. Once my questions were answered and I had the proof i needed, only then did my spiritial journey really began and true compassion and understanding for it became clearer.

It may be hard for others to understand it but we do, even if others think we don't and when others tell us we cant justify our own belief, still nothing else matters becasue we know that isnt even our battle to fight.

I don't think it's hard to understand the mentality, you're describing cult behaviour very much here. 

[Debra F. II]

29 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I don't think it's hard to understand the mentality, you're describing cult behaviour very much here. 

Maybe I shouldn't have said "our" 

My apologies!

What I've explained is my personal experience only and I think for the most part anyone claiming to be a Christian no matter if there are 3,000 as members, I think it is still based on their individual personally spiritual journey, other than looking to the bible for guidance, teacheings, answers and strength.

Cult I wouldn't say or call it that...

 You're free to come and go as you please, no ties at all. Free to be as active and / or as non active as you please. Free to quit anytime, theres no brain washing or demands and generally no dollar amount demanded from anyone to attend a service, you dont even have to commit to one church or one pastor, priest or reverend.

[Debra F. II]

2 hours ago, Festina Lente said:

WANTS  —  not desires.  

The Universe — are we all not a part of it?  

 

Yes and there is so much more than meets the eye.

Wants and desires are not needs...

And to not WANT is the challenge of faith, love and trust..

The Lord is my Sheppard, I shall not want...

If anyone is up to it..                              For just one day drop the word want and for one week keep track of how often you use the word want. (We are all wanting people, and some of us are wanting animals,) also keep track of how often you hear it... 

The Lord is my Sheppard...           Means the Lord guides me, which I truely believe from my personal proof that I've seen and have experienced so far, therefore if I'm being guided I shall not want, worry or be dismayed ; ) and I shall try hard not to want for nothing, for He WILL provide : )

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, Debra F. II said:

Maybe I shouldn't have said "our" 

My apologies!

I'm not sure that makes a difference at all.

1 hour ago, Debra F. II said:

What I've explained is my personal experience only and I think for the most part anyone claiming to be a Christian no matter if there are 3,000 as members, I think it is still based on their individual personally spiritual journey, other than looking to the bible for guidance, teacheings, answers and strength.

All of these journeys are stemming from the same source, it's just a splintered cult, and religion has proven itself to be better at dividing humanity rather than bringing it together. One source splintered into many groups all claiming greater understanding. That's just self delusion.

1 hour ago, Debra F. II said:

Cult I wouldn't say or call it that...

 You're free to come and go as you please, no ties at all. Free to be as active and / or as non active as you please. Free to quit anytime, theres no brain washing or demands and generally no dollar amount demanded from anyone to attend a service, you dont even have to commit to one church or one pastor, priest or reverend.

That doesn't sound like religion at all, it sounds like a congregation of like minded people validating each other. All the things you say aren't demanded up there are demanded by one faith or another. Just preaching the gospel idea as if real is brainwashing right there using the term indoctrination. Religion is dishonest from the get go removing ones first choice in many cases. 

I would definitely call religion cult behaviour.

[+Paranoid Android]

@eight bits - Sorry for the late reply, haven't been around much (such is life). Anyway, I wanted to say thank you for the information you've provided, it has been informative and shown me a little of the evolution of this topic over the past few years in my online absence. I've found there's nothing specifically to disagree with any particular point you raised. Nevertheless, as with this discussion as it has always run with us, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on how certain we can feel on the historical Jesus. Personally, I think I'd find a topic that assumed Jesus' existence and instead delved into what the historical Jesus might have actually said and done would be far more interesting to me (not a topic that gets as much airtime, IIRC). There's plenty of discussion area there, and lots of different schools of thought (Jesus Seminar springs to mind, as controversial as it may be). Catch you round, my friend

~ PA   

[Debra F. II]

11 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I'm not sure that makes a difference at all.

All of these journeys are stemming from the same source, it's just a splintered cult, and religion has proven itself to be better at dividing humanity rather than bringing it together. One source splintered into many groups all claiming greater understanding. That's just self delusion.

That doesn't sound like religion at all, it sounds like a congregation of like minded people validating each other. All the things you say aren't demanded up there are demanded by one faith or another. Just preaching the gospel idea as if real is brainwashing right there using the term indoctrination. Religion is dishonest from the get go removing ones first choice in many cases. 

I would definitely call religion cult behaviour.

Hmmm maybe so but for the most part changes made in an individual that do follow Jesus's teachings and the word of the Bible are a step forward and for the better; at least it has been for me.

And quoting ~ "coming from one source", well than just an idea here... thinking about that... then it'd no different then believing in the values and guidelines in a company that someone may work for, same ideas behind it, that means its cult based? ; )