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Did Jesus Exist?

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Crikey
7 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

..we can speculate that Jesus was never alive and in fact is a pastiche of a number of folkloric characters stitched together into a semi-coherent narrative by vested interests.

What "vested interests"? Christianity is certainly not about money or control..:D

"Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit...Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, not lording it over those entrusted to you.." (2 Cor 2:17,1 Peter 5:2-3)

 

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cormac mac airt
2 hours ago, psyche101 said:

May I draw on your knowledge to ask if it's likely that Nazareth actually existed during the alleged lifetime of Jesus.

Nazareth appears to have existed at the time of Jesus, however it held no position of prominence or significant size. 
 

cormac

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Crikey
7 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

..there is no god of the Bible that cannot be explained by other means..

Well Jesus did his 37 miracles by the power of God flowing through him, heck even David Blaine would find him a hard act to follow..:D

"Hey Lazarus mate, come on outta there"

rel-jesus-lazarus-raised.jpg

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Crikey
9 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Any from JC disproving of slavery?  As far as I can tell he didn't say anything about it.

There were "servants" in Israel , but "slaves" nah, so no wonder he never mentioned it, and don't forget the words slave and servant are simply a matter of translation.

 

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Rlyeh
8 minutes ago, Crikey said:

There were "servants" in Israel , but "slaves" nah, so no wonder he never mentioned it, and don't forget the words slave and servant are simply a matter of translation.

There were also slaves.  When your own Bible refutes you, deny it.  :lol:

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Crikey
7 hours ago, Habitat said:

The highest, most complete state, for a human being, is the state of psychological maturity where it is possible to confirm the truth that was alluded to, by JC..

Yay..!

"..as a Christian,thank God you bear that name....that you may stand firm in all the will of God, mature and fully assured" (1 Peter 4:16, Col 4:12)

PS- Hey guys, here's a sensational vid of me in "Christian swagger mode" under my screename 'PoorOldSpike', play it fullscreen for maximum dramatic effect and note the supremely confident, arrogant body language..:P

 

Edited by Crikey
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Rlyeh
55 minutes ago, Crikey said:

Check your monitor settings again mate, you must have missed my post where I said anybody who follows Jesus has got a free run to the pearlies no matter what their forebears did..:D

You did sweetie but your Bible doesn't.  God holds humans accountable for original sin, how is that common sense?

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Rlyeh
54 minutes ago, Crikey said:

So what? They admit he existed, so that's a "yes" to the topic title: Did Jesus exist..:D

No, they say their version existed.

For instance in the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, Jesus kills a couple of people.  Does this Jesus exist?

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Will Due
3 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

God holds humans accountable for original sin, how is that common sense?

 

Common sense should tell you that the Bible isn't God.

 

 

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Crikey
54 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I come to UM for the posters, I enjoy reading an intelligent well versed articulate mind..

You've got a pretty good brain yourself, no wonder Jesus loved women such as you..:D

As he slipped into death on the cross, some of his disciples ran off in fear of the Romans, but his tired pain-filled eyes saw a host of loyal women who'd stuck with him to the end..

"Jesus cried out with a loud voice, and breathed his last. There were also women looking on from afar, among whom were Mary Magdalene and Salome, who followed him and ministered to him when he was in Galilee, and many other women who came up with him to Jerusalem" (Mark 15:37)

They gave him the last womanly comfort they could by making sure he never died alone..

jesus.jpg

 

jesus-deadC.gif

 

Jesu-maryC.gif

 

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Rlyeh
2 minutes ago, Crikey said:

They gave him the last womanly comfort they could by making sure he never died alone..  

He'd soon be joined by the walking dead. :lol:

 

Matthew 27:51 At that moment the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked and the rocks were split.
52 The tombs broke open, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised.
53 After Jesus’ resurrection, when they had come out of the tombs, they entered the holy city and appeared to many people.

**Strange no one else mentions a bunch of dead guys climbing out of their tombs.

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Sherapy
12 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Have to be careful with words here 

The character OF christ MAY be fictional  It certainly cant be known or proven 

However the character,Christ, was real 

Having experienced my share of miracles as real and powerful as some of those  in the bible, I retain an open mind  Just because "miracles"  are real doesn't mean that christ was a miracle worker, although it increases the possibility that he could have been  

There is a force, or a power, capable of performing things we call miracles  and particularly of empowering and gifting humans, so they can do "incredible" things. 

I don't know if christ was such a human or even an avatar of a god  

I wouldn't place a bet on it, either way, 

I have met dozens of humans who possess a part of this power, and can perform "miracles"  The more of the gift one has, the more one can accomplish.

It is possible that a human filled with this power could do things we think are impossible (I believe "the power" is a technological function of a superior technology   )

I am gonna write this off as Red Bull ramblings. 
 

Get some rest, all the best. 

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Crikey
5 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Matthew 27:51 At that moment the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked and the rocks were split.
52 The tombs broke open, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised.
53 After Jesus’ resurrection, when they had come out of the tombs, they entered the holy city and appeared to many people.

Strange no one else mentions a bunch of dead guys climbing out of their tombs.

 

Remember, as Jesus died there was a helluva arm-wrestling match going on up there, making our "reality"  heave and buckle with all sorts of paranormal stuff going on..:w00t:

rel-jesus_vs_satan.jpg

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Crikey
12 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

It is possible that a human filled with this power could do things we think are impossible (I believe "the power" is a technological function of a superior technology   )

 

Yes, biblical "miracles" are simply a   "Superscience" that we as yet know nothing about.

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Rlyeh
8 minutes ago, Crikey said:

Remember, as Jesus died there was a helluva arm-wrestling match going on up there

Yeah.. tongue wrestling.

 

8 minutes ago, Crikey said:

making our "reality"  heave and buckle with all sorts of paranormal stuff going on..:w00t:

Must've not been that important if no one else mentioned it.

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Crikey
47 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

in the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, Jesus kills a couple of people.  Does this Jesus exist?

Could be..:D

JESUS- "So you're the High Priest, I've heard about you and your mates"

HIGH PRIEST- "What have you heard JC?"

J- "I've heard that you're dirty low-down lying bozos" 

HP- "Prove it"

rel-jes-priest.jpg

Edited by Crikey

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Crikey
28 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Crikey said- as Jesus died there was a helluva arm-wrestling match going on up there, making our "reality"  heave and buckle with all sorts of paranormal stuff going on

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Must've not been that important if no one else mentioned it.

 

Granted most people must have been cowering in their nuclear bunkers, but there were still a brave few (journalists maybe) who were out there looking for a scoop..:lol:

Edited by Crikey

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Alchopwn
4 hours ago, Crikey said:

Well Jesus did his 37 miracles by the power of God flowing through him, heck even David Blaine would find him a hard act to follow..:D

"Hey Lazarus mate, come on outta there"

Assuming the Lazarus story is even true, there are examples of people who have lain dead on battlefields for as long as 2 weeks, presumed dead and in a vegetative state who have spontaneously woken up.  This is before we get into issues like catalepsy, various forms of paralytic poisoning that can be mistaken for death, and all the other known ways that someone can be brought back from the dead.  If you want to impress me, show me an instance where a miracle has caused someone to regrow a severed limb.

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Alchopwn
11 hours ago, Habitat said:

The highest, most complete state, for a human being, is the state of psychological maturity where it is possible to confirm the truth that was alluded to, by JC, and the many other historical custodians of the Perennial Philosophy, of participative and experiential immersion in God. That was what his mission was, but it is not something that gains popular acceptance, then or now, it is really the preserve of a small few, who are given by the accidents of fate, to be able to apprehend it. it is akin to the old saying, you cannot put an old head on young shoulders, except perhaps that you cannot put a God-ready head, on those distracted by the ephemera of the world.

Self delusion is not psychological maturity.  Doing magic tricks to please crowds is not psychological maturity.  Has it never occurred to you that perhaps the so-called ephemera of the world is the real stuff, and this other material is straight out nonsense and the product of a disordered mind?  I mean, I know the stigma that mental illness carries for many people, and it may be easier to claim psychic power than admit mental illness, and a lot less risk to the narcissist's self image, rather than admitting they might be wrong, and maybe there isn't some sort of magic dude in the sky who looks after them personally.  Altered states of consciousness aren't caused by magic, they're caused by alteration in neurochemistry.  You can study it and learn to control it.  Most genuine mystics are simply people who have trained their minds to give them hits of their brain's natural morphine without being injured.  They are literally addicted to their body's own painkillers.  It's quite a feat, and it also isn't a good look.   Time to put away childish things. 

Edited by Alchopwn
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Crikey
41 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

..If you want to impress me, show me an instance where a miracle has caused someone to regrow a severed limb.

Good thinking mate, Jesus couldn't conjure up anything out of thin air; he had to have some atoms and molecules there to be able to work with in the first place, eg water into wine, akin to sci-fi's "transformation of matter".

He could therefore cure a withered hand (Matt 12:9) because something was already there to work from.

And in another example to cure blindness, Jesus had to spit in the dust to make a mud pie and smear it on the bloke's eyes (below) so that the atoms and molecules could re-arrange themselves into a new cornea or whatever, it was yet another demonstration of a biblical "Superscience" that we know nothing about.

rel-Jesus-mud.jpg

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Jodie.Lynne
1 hour ago, Alchopwn said:

If you want to impress me, show me an instance where a miracle has caused someone to regrow a severed limb.

This, in spades! With flourishes, rainbows and sprinkles!

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Jodie.Lynne
31 minutes ago, Crikey said:

it was yet another demonstration of a biblical "Superscience" that we know nothing about.

Bull, and scheisse!  If your Jesus was a physical incarnation of god, why couldn't he create a limb that was missing?

As it stands, the 'miraculous' Jesus is on a par with preachers such as Benny Hinn.

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Sherapy
41 minutes ago, Crikey said:

Good thinking mate, Jesus couldn't conjure up anything out of thin air; he had to have some atoms and molecules there to be able to work with in the first place, eg water into wine, akin to sci-fi's "transformation of matter".

He could therefore cure a withered hand (Matt 12:9) because something was already there to work from.

And in another example to cure blindness, Jesus had to spit in the dust to make a mud pie and smear it on the bloke's eyes (below) so that the atoms and molecules could re-arrange themselves into a new cornea or whatever, it was yet another demonstration of a biblical "Superscience" that we know nothing about.

rel-Jesus-mud.jpg

Crikey, come on now you can’t possibly believe a person can cure blindness by rubbing mud in their eyes. Sheesh. 

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Habitat
2 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

Self delusion is not psychological maturity.  Doing magic tricks to please crowds is not psychological maturity.  Has it never occurred to you that perhaps the so-called ephemera of the world is the real stuff, and this other material is straight out nonsense and the product of a disordered mind?  I mean, I know the stigma that mental illness carries for many people, and it may be easier to claim psychic power than admit mental illness, and a lot less risk to the narcissist's self image, rather than admitting they might be wrong, and maybe there isn't some sort of magic dude in the sky who looks after them personally.  Altered states of consciousness aren't caused by magic, they're caused by alteration in neurochemistry.  You can study it and learn to control it.  Most genuine mystics are simply people who have trained their minds to give them hits of their brain's natural morphine without being injured.  They are literally addicted to their body's own painkillers.  It's quite a feat, and it also isn't a good look.   Time to put away childish things. 

That rant has very little relevance to what I said, the fact remains that, at bottom, true religiosity has nothing to do with the adoration of human personalities like JC, in fact being wrapped up in the personality of another, any other, is an effective barrier to what I speak, these people stand as exemplars of the realisation of a potentiality inherent in all, and their message is intended to help others follow the path they followed, not follow them like a pet dog trundles after its master, because it is the master they want to be close to. That truly is, a childish thing. The true religiosity is the greatest science of all. It depends on rigorous adhesion to the truth, painstaking preparation of the experimental material , and the consummation of it involves complete dedication of available resources. The experiment, is YOU !

Edited by Habitat
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Crikey
26 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Bull, and scheisse!  If your Jesus was a physical incarnation of god, why couldn't he create a limb that was missing?

 

Just to digress slightly, do UM members think Jesus WAS God?

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