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Did Jesus Exist?

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Jodie.Lynne
1 hour ago, Crikey said:

 

Just to digress slightly, do UM members think Jesus WAS God?

Just to clarify... Christianity claims that Jesus WAS god, or the son of god, or the Earthly incarnation of god.

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Crikey
10 minutes ago, eight bits said:

Crikey asked- Was Jesus God?

------------------------------------------

Wrong thread, we're all historians here, kinda; theologians not so much :no:

Okay let me make a note of that:- the historians are "don't knows"..:D

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Habitat
27 minutes ago, Crikey said:

SITREP- in answer to my question 'Was Jesus God'.. the answers in so far are-

OnlookerofMayhem- NO

Sherapy- NO.

Anybody else care to step up to the plate with an answer?

Well, if in any sense he was, it was no more than what we all are, in potentia.

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Crikey
11 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Just to clarify... Christianity claims that Jesus WAS god, or the son of god, or the Earthly incarnation of god.

Well you scored one out of three there, but i'll wait to see if anybody else answers my "Was Jesus God" question before expanding on it.

EDIT- on second thoughts it was unfair of moi to railroad people into giving straight "yes or no" answers, so I'll be quite willing to hear any "perhaps" or "maybe" or "not on your nelly"-type replies IF they're brief..:lol:

Edited by Crikey

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Jodie.Lynne
12 minutes ago, Crikey said:

Well you scored one out of three there, but i'll wait to see if anybody else answers my "Was Jesus God" question before expanding on it.

EDIT- on second thoughts it was unfair of moi to railroad people into giving straight "yes or no" answers, so I'll be quite willing to hear any "perhaps" or "maybe" or "not on your nelly"-type replies IF they're brief..:lol:

My answer: Nope, not god. Just a man with a message.

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Sherapy
30 minutes ago, Crikey said:

Well you scored one out of three there, but i'll wait to see if anybody else answers my "Was Jesus God" question before expanding on it.

EDIT- on second thoughts it was unfair of moi to railroad people into giving straight "yes or no" answers, so I'll be quite willing to hear any "perhaps" or "maybe" or "not on your nelly"-type replies IF they're brief..:lol:

Crikey start your own thread, it is a great question, but this thread is about the historical evidence of Jesus.

You don’t want to derail right out the gates. 
 

Thank you, do a poll even, just on your thread. 

Edited by Sherapy
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XenoFish
9 hours ago, Piney said:

I never tried for a social life.

Pfft, I never had time. Always work and school, now work and family things. Any free time I had was used for my interest. Granted I don't hold a candle to some of the intellectual juggernauts around here. 

 

9 hours ago, Sherapy said:

I think we are fortunate to have so many talented thinkers in one area. I like precision, attention to detail that posters such as Eight bits, you, Cormac, LG, X, Hammer, 3rd and Psyche put into the subjects that you each are passionate about. 

Appreciate the compliment, but I do not feel it's warranted.

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Crikey
47 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Crikey start your own thread, it is a great question..

No need, I'll answer the "Was Jesus God" question right now and put it to rest by saying NO he definitely was NOT..:D

Yet amazingly many so-called "christians" say he WAS God, even though he said himself that he WASN'T God, you couldn't make it up!

Check it-

Jesus said - "I am going to the Father, for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28 )

Jesus said -"Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)

Jesus said - "Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)

Jesus said - "I say nothing of my own accord, i only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)

Jesus said to God the day before his execution- "Father, the hour has come....I am coming to you now" (John 17:13)

To his disciples- "I am going to my Father and your Father, my God and your God" (John 20:17)

 

Edited by Crikey
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Jodie.Lynne
4 minutes ago, Crikey said:

No need, I'll answer the "Was Jesus God" question right now

You do realize that all these quotations are from people claiming to have heard these words, yes?

We have nothing that definitively states: "I am Jesus, these are my words."

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XenoFish
6 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

"I am Jesus, these are my words."

1gjtyi.jpg

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Sherapy
33 minutes ago, Crikey said:

No need, I'll answer the "Was Jesus God" question right now and put it to rest by saying NO he definitely was NOT..:D

Yet amazingly many so-called "christians" say he WAS God, even though he said himself that he WASN'T God, you couldn't make it up!

Check it-

Jesus said - "I am going to the Father, for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28 )

Jesus said -"Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)

Jesus said - "Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)

Jesus said - "I say nothing of my own accord, i only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)

Jesus said to God the day before his execution- "Father, the hour has come....I am coming to you now" (John 17:13)

To his disciples- "I am going to my Father and your Father, my God and your God" (John 20:17)

 

Interesting pull. 
 

For those that are Christian and believe the Bible is his story, interesting.

 

There is a free online course through Yale eighty turned me onto and in part it is about how little those that are mouthpieces for Jesus  have not have actually read the Bible, or cherry pick around this,

Edited by Sherapy
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Sherapy
35 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Pfft, I never had time. Always work and school, now work and family things. Any free time I had was used for my interest. Granted I don't hold a candle to some of the intellectual juggernauts around here. 

 

Appreciate the compliment, but I do not feel it's warranted.

Yeah, it is. You are a wise young man who has challenged himself this is not an easy trek, it is far easier to defend oneself while touting how open minded one is. 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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Crikey

Topic- Did Jesus Exist?

----------------------------------

Okay everybody, try this on for size:- there are a couple of dozen Old Testament quotes foretelling the arrival of a "Messiah", most of which tie in with Jesus, for example Zechariah in the Old T wrote in 500BC-

"Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! See, your king comes to you riding on a donkey" (Zech 9:9)

and in the New T Luke says-

"They threw their cloaks on the colt and put Jesus on it. As he went along, people spread their cloaks on the road."(Luke 19:35-37)

So who were the people seeing, JC or the Lone Ranger on Silver?

rel-jesus-donkey.jpg

Edited by Crikey

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Jodie.Lynne
10 minutes ago, Crikey said:

there are a couple of dozen Old Testament quotes foretelling the arrival of a "Messiah"

Yes, there are, but none of them foretell "Jesus".

 

IIRC, there is a prophecy about "Emmanuel". Care to explain how 'Emmanuel' became 'Jesus'?

 

And latter day chroniclers who were familiar with OT 'prophecies', wouldn't have a difficult time of shoehorning in details to make current events 'fit', n'est pas?

Edited by Jodie.Lynne

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Hammerclaw
2 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Or a creation from the mind of a very clever, culturally savvy, and very educated man. 
Hands down he was a fascinating dude who had his fingers on the pulse of his culture. 
 

Perhaps a Steve Jobs of his day. 

 

But he didn't. Christianity was counter-culture, the very antithesis of mainstream Roman spiritualism. Christians were the beatniks and hippies of their day. Godless atheists worshipping a dead man, cannibals and drinkers of blood. It was interesting times and the Jesus cult was remarkably resilient in how it passed the test of time, century after century, persecution after persecution until it's vindication in 313 AD.

 

 

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Hammerclaw
2 hours ago, Crikey said:

There are many Elvis impersonators too, but only one is the real deal, right Elv?

 

"From these stones God could raise up children of Abraham." 

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Jodie.Lynne
1 minute ago, Crikey said:

And the rest is history  mythology..:D

fixed that for you. ;)

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Crikey
22 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Christians were the beatniks and hippies of their day.

 

Yay, Jesus's young cousin John was a world-rejecter living rough in the wilderness, sometimes going in town to yell insults at the snooty priests and corrupt rulers. Jesus's verdict on him?-

"John is the greatest man ever to be born" (Matt 11:11)

John-

john-t-bap_zps3964c15a.jpg~original

 

Below: John in action against Herod and his tart-

rel-johnvHerodD.jpg

Edited by Crikey

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Mr Walker
20 hours ago, Piney said:

As a archaeological tech who worked with historians and knows their history, I can't watch 'Vikings'.  It's like watching psychotic fantasy LARPers. :lol:

Love GOT though. 

lol Yes apart from a few historic facts like king harald being the first king of Norway,  it is mostly fantasy 

GOT is total fantasy but i love both shows. I've watched every episode and have several seasons on dvd.  I had to to travel 130ks every monday for 7 years each season  to watch GOT, as we didnt have pay TV :(   

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Mr Walker
19 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

So you're accountable for what your ancestors did?  You don't possess common sense.

Well, indigenous people often hold modern descendants of colonists accountable for their ancestors actions. 

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Piney
Just now, Mr Walker said:

GOT is total fantasy but i love both shows. I've watched every episode and have several seasons on dvd.  I had to to travel 130ks every monday for 7 years each season  to watch GOT, as we didnt have pay TV :(   

I'm patient. My friend gave me the first three seasons DVD box sets for Christmas a few years back and then I waited for the other's to be released.

'Titans' is my next purchase.

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Piney
Just now, Mr Walker said:

Well, indigenous people often hold modern descendants of colonists accountable for their ancestors actions. 

I don't. 

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Mr Walker
17 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

LOL, no, not really.  "Genuine" is a very loaded word.  I think anyone can have a brain malfunction that seems to defy reality, but apparently you are not convinced, and want to label some these brain malfunctions genuine and others not genuine.  Not only that, but you want to put a further cultic spin on the definition.  How can I possibly agree with that?  Brain malfunctions happen with or without your cult buddy, and they don't need some pedophile in a dress to sanction them as genuine.  

lol The ultimate materialist

Think on this.

Even today there are many things we do not know and do not have answers for. In  the past these were almost universal

Not all  such experiences are a product of the brain. some are real physical encounters.

It is right to be skeptical but wrong to be totally dismissive of such claims

I will agree tha t no one needs a priest or equivalent.

Experiences are personal and meant for an individual. It is the y which should guide a person, not doctrine dogma or theology 

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Crikey
27 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

IIRC, there is a prophecy about "Emmanuel". Care to explain how 'Emmanuel' became 'Jesus'?

 

When the Old T prophets foretold the coming of the Messiah centuries before he arrived, they didn't know whether his name was going to be Charlie, Harry, Chuck, Arnie or Leroy etc, so they gave him the abstract name "Emmanuel" which in context meant "God has got our backs".

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Jodie.Lynne
4 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Well, indigenous people often hold modern descendants of colonists accountable for their ancestors actions. 

So what? 

Do you consider it a valid argument to hold someone accountable for the actions of ancestors, committed decades before that person was born?

Example: are YOU, Walker, accountable for the actions of your great-great-great-grandfather?

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