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papageorge1

Metaphysics - Science and the Superphysical

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papageorge1
2 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

So your hidden organs are microscopic?

No larger but in dimensions we can’t see

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papageorge1
2 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

Sorry I was asleep and at work.
But Piney explained it in his post to me. Invisible, untouchable overlay that's still part of THIS world, as opposed to being a separate "World" like the Norse imagined with the nine worlds of Yggdrasil or some streams of New Age try to sell their "Dimensions"   

Sure, whether you call it dimensions makes it still in this world.

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papageorge1
2 hours ago, sci-nerd said:

It is, if you seek scientific validation to your "spiritual agenda". A hypothesis does not confirm anything, only theories does. But, to this date, science has only contributed to debunk spiritual claims, not verify any.

There isn't really any high profile scientists who still defend the string hypothesis anymore. If I'm wrong, please prove it. Show me recent statements from them.

As you may know, my favorite theory of the world/universe is that it's virtual. String "theory" provides evidence to that, so for me it's kind of a loss. But I accept it, because of its shortcomings, and lack of scientific support. Now, the only evidence I have left, is duality and non-locality. It's not proof, but it's still evidence.
That's how you can trust that I'm not biased. I respect the evidence, no matter what it tells us. Even if it goes against my preferred theories.

Well I respect String Theory and a simulation of the non-dual One Consciousness. Our consciousness is that One consciousness temporarily experiencing finiteness.

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White Crane Feather
20 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Bernardo Kastrup wrote a compelling description of what human physiology might look like in 10 dimension:

"According to different versions of String Theory, and especially M-Theory, up to 10 dimensions of space are required for describing and explaining the behavior of matter. For years now popular culture has acknowledged this abstraction with a certain degree of wonder, thanks to the likes of Brian Greene and other science popularizers. Yet, there is one remarkable implication of these theories that seem to escape the attention of most of us: If matter exists in 10 spatial dimensions, then our bodies, which are made of matter, also fundamentally exist in 10 spatial dimensions. So the 3-dimensional body we see when we look down while dressing up each day is, in fact, a flattened projection of a 10-dimensional structure way beyond our ability to visualize spatially. ... How many structures are lost when we project a 10-dimensional body onto only 3 dimensions? How many 'organ systems' become completely invisible? How many complex, vital structures inherent to the inner-workings of a living body disappear in the projection? Going from 3 to 2 dimensions, as we all know, implies significant loss of information; and that is just the loss of a single dimension. Imagine the loss of 7 dimensions."

 

Our minds conditioned by the three dimensional world asks where are these so-called chakras, astral bodies, etc. claimed by many with extra-sensitive psychic (beyond three-dimensional) senses. There is theorizing going on already (string theory) that shows some ability to address these so-called super-natural things.

I suspect we are seeing the dawn of the next centuries of science.

Thoughts? I know these things are all theoretical and not testable at this time. But as I've suspected for some time now, I believe these so-called paranormal Unexplained Mysteries do involve 'real' things we don't understand. I hold this to be the strongest and most reasonable theory out there.

The other dimensions are curled up. They are not expanded. They are very tiny. In fact so tiny, that is damn near like pre Big Bang conditions. There other very interesting consequences to this, but we wouldn’t look like anything except for a pure Something. The curled up dimensions are what gives spin to subatomic particles. That’s the only reason they think they might exist because when the math works out sub atomic particles spinning around dimensions with more degrees of freedom seems to be able to predict this world and merge quantum mechanics with relativity. While there are degrees of freedom for all subatomic particles, giving it form is not a good idea.

Edited by White Crane Feather
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papageorge1
1 hour ago, White Crane Feather said:

The other dimensions are curled up. They are not expanded. They are very tiny. In fact so tiny, that is damn near like pre Big Bang conditions. There other very interesting consequences to this, but we wouldn’t look like anything except for a pure Something. The curled up dimensions are what gives spin to subatomic particles. That’s the only reason they think they might exist because when the math works out sub atomic particles spinning around dimensions with more degrees of freedom seems to be able to predict this world and merge quantum mechanics with relativity. While there are degrees of freedom for all subatomic particles, giving it form is not a good idea.

Well I am not claiming I, you or anyone knows about all that with any certainty. I trust people like Bernardo Kastrup and many others are supporting something they find feasible and have thought this out in conjunction with some learned physicists. To discuss those details you would need to speak to someone more learned than me in the physics of String Theory. And I don't know if they all agree on everything.

The appeal of this theory for me is how well it starts the bridge between science and the insights of those claiming direct super-physical insight into the extra-dimensional make-up of man that includes things like chakra energy centers, astral bodies, etc...

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psyche101
12 hours ago, Not A Rockstar said:

What IS 10d anyway? Is it even physical? I find trying to describe 4 or 5d hard enough, what IS 10d?

As I understand it, further verticies from each vertex. It's easier to grasp if you think about it mathematically rather than physically. IMHO. Imagine a point where two lines meet. The different extensions beyond that point form new dimensions.

As I say, as I understand it. Nothing like other worlds one can 'step into' as proposed by science fiction and woo proponents.

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psyche101
7 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

Sorry I was asleep and at work.
 

I want your job. :lol:

 

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psyche101
18 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

One example is the Chakra system described in detail since ancient times. 

That's s not an organ at all is it, even under the silliest fringe description 

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psyche101
3 hours ago, White Crane Feather said:

The other dimensions are curled up. They are not expanded. They are very tiny. In fact so tiny, that is damn near like pre Big Bang conditions. There other very interesting consequences to this, but we wouldn’t look like anything except for a pure Something. The curled up dimensions are what gives spin to subatomic particles. That’s the only reason they think they might exist because when the math works out sub atomic particles spinning around dimensions with more degrees of freedom seems to be able to predict this world and merge quantum mechanics with relativity. While there are degrees of freedom for all subatomic particles, giving it form is not a good idea.

Nice. I give you a hard time often, but I have to admit. That's proving what you said in the other thread about loving sciences. I'd like to see more of this sort of posting from you. Well said.

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psyche101
1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

Well I am not claiming I, you or anyone knows about all that with any certainty. I trust people like Bernardo Kastrup and many others are supporting something they find feasible and have thought this out in conjunction with some learned physicists. To discuss those details you would need to speak to someone more learned than me in the physics of String Theory. And I don't know if they all agree on everything.

The appeal of this theory for me is how well it starts the bridge between science and the insights of those claiming direct super-physical insight into the extra-dimensional make-up of man that includes things like chakra energy centers, astral bodies, etc...

You still haven't explained exactly what Chakra actually is.

I take it you think it's the multi coloured stuff?

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papageorge1
8 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

That's s not an organ at all is it, even under the silliest fringe description 

I am fine with the term 'organ'

Chakras, by definition, are energy centers within the human body that help to regulate all its processes, from organ function to the immune system and emotions. Seven chakras are positioned throughout your body, from the base of your spine to the crown of your head. Each chakra has its own vibrational frequency, color, and governs specific functions that help make you, well, human.

Chakra: A Brief Historical Definition

The term chakra is Sanskrit for “wheel.” Rightfully so, chakras are regularly depicted as spinning, colored wheels of energy. For millenia, chakras have been recognized as essential to life.

Link: What is a chakra

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psyche101
11 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I am fine with the term 'organ'

Why? It's not what your definition says. Look at the bolded.

Quote

Chakras, by definition, are energy centers within the human body that help to regulate all its processes, from organ function to the immune system and emotions. Seven chakras are positioned throughout your body, from the base of your spine to the crown of your head. Each chakra has its own vibrational frequency, color, and governs specific functions that help make you, well, human.

It says that the 'cosmic energy' flows inward to 

Assist 

In 

Regulation.

of organs.

Not that it is an organ at all. Your just making it up as you go along.

Also, there are 5, 6, 7, 9, 20, 15, 21 and 28 point Chakra systems. That's a bloody flexible organ isn't it :lol:

Is what you're really saying here is you don't know anything about the subject you are supporting?

I'd say you are fine with that term because you don't know what you are talking about.

Quote

Chakra: A Brief Historical Definition

The term chakra is Sanskrit for “wheel.” Rightfully so, chakras are regularly depicted as spinning, colored wheels of energy. For millenia, chakras have been recognized as essential to life.

Link: What is a chakra

LOL 

Correct information googling will give you not 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRurE7XVwSFZzTeZR7D5MZ

The rainbow scheme was an accidental miscommunication between many new age clowns trying to convince others that they had a clue what they were talking about. It's a late Western stuff up. Nothing to do with the original idea touted by Indian yogis.

The Chakra rainbow colour scheme also did not exist until the 80s and took hold in the 90s. Although Blavatsky originally started skewing indian yogi tradition, it was only in 1990 that Shirley MacLaine appeared on the Tonight Show and placed colored circles representing the chakra system onto talk-show host Johnny Carson’s clothing and head. That's when the rainbow system really started to take hold. The chakra systems that you are touting is a modern western reimagining which is actually about 40 years old. Not the original mystic nonsense that blew out from simple meditation exercises.

Edited by psyche101
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joc
21 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Although Blavatsky originally started skewing indian yogi tradition, it was only in 1990 that Shirley MacLaine appeared on the Tonight Show and placed colored circles representing the chakra system onto talk-show host Johnny Carson’s clothing and head.

Shirley defines Chakras as 'areas of consciousness' through out your body.  Johnny asks some really good questions?  Why are there 7?  Why not 9 or ...?  Shirley says:  Well, there are actually 144,000...

The whole thing revolves around numbers...frequencies of sound...etc.  It's a bunch of mumbo jumbo oneness crap that is no different really than believing that Jesus was born of a virgin.  It's feel-goodism...nothing more...nothing less.  

Edited by joc
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psyche101
19 minutes ago, joc said:

Shirley defines Chakras as 'areas of consciousness' through out your body.  Johnny asks some really good questions?  Why are there 7?  Why not 9 or ...?  Shirley says:  Well, there are actually 144,000...

The whole thing revolves around numbers...frequencies of sound...etc.  It's a bunch of mumbo jumbo oneness crap that is no different really than believing that Jesus was born of a virgin.  It's feel-goodism...nothing more...nothing less.  

Exactly. This new age stuff is a reimagining. It's not the original stuff from the east, which is just old cultural ideas anyway. People claim to be in possession of esoteric ancient knowledge and they are just regurgitating woo websites that clearly haven't researched the subjects at all. Chakras were originally represented with symbols until the west modernised it it with easy to sell bright pretty colours.

How PG thinks a chakra can be described as an organ is anyone's guess. That's not what his so called information even says, the original idea was 

I don't get why some people think ancient stories equal esoteric secrets of the universe I bet aome didn't even listen to their parents and call music 20 years old rubbish but think the oldest fables we have are magic instructions. 

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joc
3 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I don't get why some people think ancient stories equal esoteric secrets of the universe I bet aome didn't even listen to their parents and call music 20 years old rubbish but think the oldest fables we have are magic instructions. 

A lack of understanding of the English language I think.  Misunderstanding one word...Physics.  Our body is ....Physic-al.  The Ancient Arts of Acupuncture for example...by sticking a pin here...you cause a nerve to move ...there.  Same with Chiropractor Philosophy.  It is all ...physical.  

Can we manipulate our body's physical nature by pure thought process?  NO!   But because of thought process we are led to do other things...like...stretching...exercises...manipulating those areas through mechanical means...i.e.   physical.

It goes to reason...if one can levitate a feather with their mind...one can levitate a grand piano as well.  The mind is very weak as far as a physical manipulator on it's own...but it is all powerful in manipulating our own physical contact with the 'real' physical world...because it is all...physical.  Physics!!

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papageorge1
5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Why? It's not what your definition says. Look at the bolded.

It says that the 'cosmic energy' flows inward to 

Assist 

In 

Regulation.

of organs.

Not that it is an organ at all. Your just making it up as you go along.

Also, there are 5, 6, 7, 9, 20, 15, 21 and 28 point Chakra systems. That's a bloody flexible organ isn't it :lol:

Is what you're really saying here is you don't know anything about the subject you are supporting?

I'd say you are fine with that term because you don't know what you are talking about.

LOL 

Correct information googling will give you not 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRurE7XVwSFZzTeZR7D5MZ

The rainbow scheme was an accidental miscommunication between many new age clowns trying to convince others that they had a clue what they were talking about. It's a late Western stuff up. Nothing to do with the original idea touted by Indian yogis.

The Chakra rainbow colour scheme also did not exist until the 80s and took hold in the 90s. Although Blavatsky originally started skewing indian yogi tradition, it was only in 1990 that Shirley MacLaine appeared on the Tonight Show and placed colored circles representing the chakra system onto talk-show host Johnny Carson’s clothing and head. That's when the rainbow system really started to take hold. The chakra systems that you are touting is a modern western reimagining which is actually about 40 years old. Not the original mystic nonsense that blew out from simple meditation exercises.

You are off on an unimportant tangent to me if you are going to obsess about word usage like 'organs' 'dimensions' and etcetera. You are missing the picture to find something to scoff at me with. The truth is we don't have a well-developed vocabulary to use for all these things that I want to talk about. 

And not to turn this thread I started into a tangent about chakras, I'll leave it at that. 

The big point in the OP is the claim that we are more than the three-dimensional matter we see and feel with three-dimensional senses and these additional components beyond science's current reach (maybe someday) are part of being a working complete biological organism.

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White Crane Feather

 

18 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Nice. I give you a hard time often, but I have to admit. That's proving what you said in the other thread about loving sciences. I'd like to see more of this sort of posting from you. Well said.

Hahha. Well I go where logic takes me. Yes if there are other “realms” that is not where they are. People get confused by what scientists mean my dimensions. When a scientist says a different dimension, she means length, width etc. When Stan Lee (RIP) says a different dimension he means  another universe separate from this one. There are obviously other directional dimensions otherwise space-time would not have anything to curve around, but that isn’t where Asgard is. String theory does morph into super string theory and then Brain Theory and then MBrain theory which does allow for different realms separated by other directional dimensions. In fact the Big Bang May have been kicked off by a collision of these membranes and explains some observations we have made in the structure of the universe and ripples in the cosmic back ground radiation.  There can also be universes caused by black holes. We may be in one of those. There is plenty of room for “woo” my friend. I suspect there are more places in deep reality than we can imagine. 

Edited by White Crane Feather
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XenoFish
8 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Exactly. This new age stuff is a reimagining. It's not the original stuff from the east, which is just old cultural ideas anyway. People claim to be in possession of esoteric ancient knowledge and they are just regurgitating woo websites that clearly haven't researched the subjects at all. Chakras were originally represented with symbols until the west modernised it it with easy to sell bright pretty colours.

How PG thinks a chakra can be described as an organ is anyone's guess. That's not what his so called information even says, the original idea was 

I don't get why some people think ancient stories equal esoteric secrets of the universe I bet aome didn't even listen to their parents and call music 20 years old rubbish but think the oldest fables we have are magic instructions. 

My personal take on Chakras is that they represents stages of personal development. Like gaining control over lower base instinct and working one's way up. I don't think they were ever meant to represents 'energy centers'. 

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psyche101
On 12/8/2019 at 2:10 AM, papageorge1 said:

You are off on an unimportant tangent to me if you are going to obsess about word usage like 'organs' 'dimensions' and etcetera.

Hand waving at its best ladies and gentlemen.

How the heck can one properly discuss a subject when you can't define the elements of discussion?

You can't. So the only alternative is that you are making things up.

On 12/8/2019 at 2:10 AM, papageorge1 said:

You are missing the picture to find something to scoff at me with.

No I'm not, I'm pointing out that there is no picture here. Nobody needs find anything to scoff at you with, you provide a plethora of misinformation and bad ideas all by yourself.

On 12/8/2019 at 2:10 AM, papageorge1 said:

The truth is we don't have a well-developed vocabulary to use for all these things that I want to talk about. 

That's another the truth at all. The truth is that you do not understand science at all. You are claiming a link between science and the paranormal, which means the vocabulary must exist. What the real truth is that your claims are entirely unsupported and you are unable to articulate your ideas into real world terminology because the result is nonsense.

As has been illustrated in this thread (and others)

On 12/8/2019 at 2:10 AM, papageorge1 said:

And not to turn this thread I started into a tangent about chakras, I'll leave it at that. 

So what you're saying is that you didn't know you were touting a 40 year old idea, not a two and a half thousand year old meditative practise.

Further proof that you do not do any research on the subjects that you claim to understand 

On 12/8/2019 at 2:10 AM, papageorge1 said:

The big point in the OP is the claim that we are more than the three-dimensional matter we see and feel with three-dimensional senses and these additional components beyond science's current reach (maybe someday) are part of being a working complete biological organism.

And that makes zero sense. We have a good understanding of how the body works. There are no mysteries resolved by invoking quantum dimensions. That's beyond silly. It's not like the research is based on resolving medical anomalies, its a fluff piece by someone with too much time on their hands and a very active imagination. 

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Golden Duck
On 12/6/2019 at 7:03 PM, John from Lowell said:

Hi,

More than 3D senses, for many of us we can not get past 3D reasoning restrictions. The human intellect needs to be trained to comprehend multidimensional realities. That can not begin to happen without compassion for self and others.

Science has its technical proof for these conclusions. Some of us have our personal proof which can never get validated for those who want to fit multidimensional reality into 3D.

John

 

I four dimensions:

h² = √(a² + b² + c² + d²)

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Wes83

We have a good understanding of how the body works????

if so, and I’m assuming you mean we as in the the human population collectively?- why are there so many diabetics, why is cancer so rampant, why so many mental disorders these days-so many anti-depression/anti-psychotic meds. What do we know of the limits of our bodies? What’s the last disease that was actually cured? 
 

im encouraged by a little thinking outside the box, even if some of it seems maniacal

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Golden Duck
On 12/7/2019 at 9:09 AM, psyche101 said:

That's s not an organ at all is it, even under the silliest fringe description 

This is one of the things I think of when I hear hidden organ

giphy.gif

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psyche101
On 12/8/2019 at 3:37 AM, White Crane Feather said:

 

Hahha. Well I go where logic takes me. Yes if there are other “realms” that is not where they are. People get confused by what scientists mean my dimensions. When a scientist says a different dimension, she means length, width etc. When Stan Lee (RIP) says a different dimension he means  another universe separate from this one. There are obviously other directional dimensions otherwise space-time would not have anything to curve around, but that isn’t where Asgard is. String theory does morph into super string theory and then Brain Theory and then MBrain theory which does allow for different realms separated by other directional dimensions. In fact the Big Bang May have been kicked off by a collision of these membranes and explains some observations we have made in the structure of the universe and ripples in the cosmic back ground radiation.  There can also be universes caused by black holes. We may be in one of those. There is plenty of room for “woo” my friend. I suspect there are more places in deep reality than we can imagine. 

Well, without the woo, I hope you rub of on the more ignorant posters who confuse the term dimensions on a regular basis. That's a good description and I hope the less informed posters take note of it.

Yes, I'm looking at you @papageorge1

I just don't think there's a need to overthink things. They tend to reveal themselves if we pay attention.

Edited by psyche101
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psyche101
On 12/8/2019 at 6:16 AM, XenoFish said:

My personal take on Chakras is that they represents stages of personal development. Like gaining control over lower base instinct and working one's way up. I don't think they were ever meant to represents 'energy centers'. 

The original idea as I understand it was that one could focus on certain centres of the body whilst meditating imagining each focus point as a spinning wheel of energy to concentrate on harmony.

It seems to have drifted along way from there to the new age nonsense PG is fumbling around.

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psyche101
2 hours ago, Wes83 said:

We have a good understanding of how the body works????

Yep, pretty much.

2 hours ago, Wes83 said:

if so, and I’m assuming you mean we as in the the human population collectively?-

Yes

2 hours ago, Wes83 said:

why are there so many diabetics,

Mainly bad diets 

2 hours ago, Wes83 said:

why is cancer so rampant,

Bad diets and bad practices mostly.

2 hours ago, Wes83 said:

why so many mental disorders these days-so many anti-depression/anti-psychotic meds.

There's no one reason. From a lifetime of abuse to a genetic disorder, there are many reasons.

2 hours ago, Wes83 said:

What do we know of the limits of our bodies?

Ask any athlete.

2 hours ago, Wes83 said:

What’s the last disease that was actually cured? 
 

Last one was smallpox in the 70s.

2 hours ago, Wes83 said:

im encouraged by a little thinking outside the box, even if some of it seems maniacal

Sure. That's not what's going on in this thread though. I'm not seeing heads popping out of boxes, but thrust quickly into sand.

Hidden human organs in quantum dimensions is beyond manical, beyond silly. It's a really dumb idea.

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