Metaphysics - Science and the Superphysical

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I am interested in science

Really wish I could believe that, because you dismiss any science that is offered as an explanation to paranormal/supernatural phenomena.

[papageorge1]

29 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Really wish I could believe that, because you dismiss any science that is offered as an explanation to paranormal/supernatural phenomena.

I’m a bridge builder between science and the paranormal.

Edited December 14, 2019 by papageorge1

[onlookerofmayhem]

2 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I’m a bridge builder between science and the paranormal.

[XenoFish]

Just now, papageorge1 said:

I’m a bridge builder.

Then you've got a long way to go and I highly suggest you start acting open minded in regards to what is vs. what isn't. 

The very first thing you need to do is actually examine your beliefs, then look for contradictory information. That's the only way to filter bias out. Because eventually you'll find that what you wish to be true isn't. Then you'll find that there are functional ideas and concepts. If you do this right you'll be more balanced in your opinions in 5-10 years. So instead of blindly believing things, test them. And question the results. Goodbye George. I await the day that this clarity happens. Good luck. 

[papageorge1]

3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Then you've got a long way to go and I highly suggest you start acting open minded in regards to what is vs. what isn't. 

The very first thing you need to do is actually examine your beliefs, then look for contradictory information. That's the only way to filter bias out. Because eventually you'll find that what you wish to be true isn't. Then you'll find that there are functional ideas and concepts. If you do this right you'll be more balanced in your opinions in 5-10 years. So instead of blindly believing things, test them. And question the results. Goodbye George. I await the day that this clarity happens. Good luck. 

I feel my current position  is a healthy balance between openness and skepticism. Perhaps it’s your measuring scale that is thing unbalanced and bias. I believe that’s the reality here.

Your 100% ‘No’ position on every paranormal claim is not a position I can respect.

Edited December 14, 2019 by papageorge1

[+joc]

5 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Again and again you are promoting scientism. Maybe that’s fine for you but I am interested in wisdom and wisdom traditions that are not physics and equations.

Vedic, Theosophical, etc wisdom traditions use quite different approaches than physics and equations.

My main point in my OP is suggesting that extra-dimensions seem to help us make some more sense of the paranormal and psychic. People always ask so where are these things? I am just intending to show where a bridge may be started between science and the paranormal/psychic/spiritual.

I am not offering mathematical equations in the year 2019.

 

Okay then you are completely clueless about any theories regarding gravity and you are just glomming onto something you don't know anything about and extrapolating it to make something implausable 'sound' plausible.

That's what I thought.

[papageorge1]

2 hours ago, joc said:

Okay then you are completely clueless about any theories regarding gravity and you are just glomming onto something you don't know anything about and extrapolating it to make something implausable 'sound' plausible.

That's what I thought.

?? When:/where was I ever claiming to discuss theories regarding gravity?

What thread are you reading?

[onlookerofmayhem]

49 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

?? When:/where was I ever claiming to discuss theories regarding gravity?

What thread are you reading?

Proof that you have no idea what you are talking about.

String theory is a theory of quantum gravity. 

[papageorge1]

1 hour ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

Proof that you have no idea what you are talking about.

String theory is a theory of quantum gravity. 

string theory

[string theory]

NOUN

1. a cosmological theory based on the existence of cosmic strings.

[onlookerofmayhem]

1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

string theory

[string theory]

 

NOUN

1. a cosmological theory based on the existence of cosmic strings.

"On distance scales larger than the string scale, a string will look just like an ordinary particle, with its mass, charge, and other properties determined by the vibrational state of the string. In this way, all of the different elementary particles may be viewed as vibrating strings. In string theory, one of the vibrational states of the string gives rise to the graviton, a quantum mechanical particle that carries gravitational force. Thus string theory is a theory of quantum gravity."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory#Fundamentals

[papageorge1]

Just now, onlookerofmayhem said:

"On distance scales larger than the string scale, a string will look just like an ordinary particle, with its mass, charge, and other properties determined by the vibrational state of the string. In this way, all of the different elementary particles may be viewed as vibrating strings. In string theory, one of the vibrational states of the string gives rise to the graviton, a quantum mechanical particle that carries gravitational force. Thus string theory is a theory of quantum gravity."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory#Fundamentals

String theory involves many things. The point of this thread was just to discuss extra-dimensions.

[onlookerofmayhem]

1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

String theory involves many things. The point of this thread was just to discuss extra-dimensions.

Indeed. And string theory is in your OP. And you asked when you claimed to be discussing gravity.

 

 

[+joc]

1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

String theory involves many things. The point of this thread was just to discuss extra-dimensions.

String theory involves ONE thing ....only ONE thing....not many things...ONE thing....

Einstein's theories of relativity ...as I said...are not the end all of end all...

There are some real problems...not with his theories or equations, but rather that with the  F A C T  that mathematically those equations should be consistent...from zero to infinity...and they are not.  ....it is in attempting to calculate infinity that shows the problems.

String theories were posited as an effort...FROM THE SCIENTIFIC...I.E. PHYSICS COMMUNITY...to acquire the missing parts of Einstein's theories.  

In case you didn't know...and I'm sure you don't...Einstein's theories of relativity had to do with not explaining what gravity does...but how and why gravity works.  String theory has nothing to do with anything paranormal...it is all about SCIENTIFIC equations to fill in the void of Einstein's own theorems.  

You have no doubt glommed on as I said earlier to something you are completely clueless about...but I digress.

In FACT.....you have nothing except anecdote and your own mental bias to base any of your PapaMeterage on!

I don't know what my friend, who swears he saw a giant space craft the size of a football field when he was 11, actually saw...but what I do know is that there is not a shred of scientific evidence to substantiate it.  So, I view it as ancecdote...even though there are many, many other sighting claims.

It is largely due to my study of theoretical gravity science that I place his sighting on the ...hmmm...helicopter shining light on a rising fog drift...scenario.  He swears it changed his life...no doubt...I believe him.  But if there isn't ANY       A   N   Y     scientific data to show how that could happen or to show that it ever happened, then it remains just another unprovable antidote.

But you.....YOU....are attempting to involve scientific theorems to support YOUR conclusions...and they don't.    If you don't have any scientific data to confirm anything then please just leave science out of your thought processes concerning paranormal altogether!  

smh

[papageorge1]

35 minutes ago, joc said:

String theory involves ONE thing ....only ONE thing....not many things...ONE thing....

Einstein's theories of relativity ...as I said...are not the end all of end all...

There are some real problems...not with his theories or equations, but rather that with the  F A C T  that mathematically those equations should be consistent...from zero to infinity...and they are not.  ....it is in attempting to calculate infinity that shows the problems.

String theories were posited as an effort...FROM THE SCIENTIFIC...I.E. PHYSICS COMMUNITY...to acquire the missing parts of Einstein's theories.  

In case you didn't know...and I'm sure you don't...Einstein's theories of relativity had to do with not explaining what gravity does...but how and why gravity works.  String theory has nothing to do with anything paranormal...it is all about SCIENTIFIC equations to fill in the void of Einstein's own theorems.  

You have no doubt glommed on as I said earlier to something you are completely clueless about...but I digress.

In FACT.....you have nothing except anecdote and your own mental bias to base any of your PapaMeterage on!

I don't know what my friend, who swears he saw a giant space craft the size of a football field when he was 11, actually saw...but what I do know is that there is not a shred of scientific evidence to substantiate it.  So, I view it as ancecdote...even though there are many, many other sighting claims.

It is largely due to my study of theoretical gravity science that I place his sighting on the ...hmmm...helicopter shining light on a rising fog drift...scenario.  He swears it changed his life...no doubt...I believe him.  But if there isn't ANY       A   N   Y     scientific data to show how that could happen or to show that it ever happened, then it remains just another unprovable antidote.

But you.....YOU....are attempting to involve scientific theorems to support YOUR conclusions...and they don't.    If you don't have any scientific data to confirm anything then please just leave science out of your thought processes concerning paranormal altogether!  

smh

You seem to be imagining what I am trying to say. I’m supporting theorems or who/whatever you are talking about?? Huh?

Maybe re-read my OP and posts and inhale/exhale. 

All I said was String Theory talks about many dimensions. Many psychic sources talk of extra-dimensions too. Bernardo Kastrup is talking about that too so I know  there’s a limb there with smart people on it.

Somehow you have me supporting String Theory and needing to come up with gravity theorems or what not that’s over my head. No.

 

Edited December 15, 2019 by papageorge1

[Timothy]

11 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I’m a bridge builder between science and the paranormal.

You’re more of a bridge-dissolver. 

Honestly, you’ve not added anything to a discussion. Ever.

You just comment on things. 

You have literally never added anything, you’re stuck in your ways. 

[papageorge1]

21 minutes ago, Timothy said:

You’re more of a bridge-dissolver. 

Honestly, you’ve not added anything to a discussion. Ever.

You just comment on things. 

You have literally never added anything, you’re stuck in your ways. 

And I see you as another bridge hater and anti-paranormalist. 

[+joc]

 

38 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

You seem to be imagining what I am trying to say. I’m supporting theorems or who/whatever you are talking about?? Huh?

Maybe re-read my OP and posts and inhale/exhale. 

All I said was String Theory talks about many dimensions. Many psychic sources talk of extra-dimensions too. Bernardo Kastrup is talking about that too so I know  there’s a limb there with smart people on it.

Somehow you have me supporting String Theory and needing to come up with gravity theorems or what not that’s over my head. No.

 

Then let's revisit your OP...shall we?

Metaphysics - Science and the Superphysical

String Theory provides possiible bridge between Science and the Superphysical

By papageorge1, December 5 in Metaphysics & Psychic Phenomena

In fact...it doesn't.  Your attempt to merge metaphysics with physics is laughable....and we are laughing....at you!

You don't even know what String Theory represents...only that it talks about other dimensions...and you think paranormal crap happens in other dimensions.  Attempting to link them together is silly.  You might as well be talking about how the Theory of Evolution proves the story of Genesis and Creation.  It doesn't either.

[papageorge1]

1 minute ago, joc said:

 

Then let's revisit your OP...shall we?

Metaphysics - Science and the Superphysical

String Theory provides possiible bridge between Science and the Superphysical

By papageorge1, December 5 in Metaphysics & Psychic Phenomena

In fact...it doesn't.  Your attempt to merge metaphysics with physics is laughable....and we are laughing....at you!

You don't even know what String Theory represents...only that it talks about other dimensions...and you think paranormal crap happens in other dimensions.  Attempting to link them together is silly.  You might as well be talking about how the Theory of Evolution proves the story of Genesis and Creation.  It doesn't either.

So, what do you think the Bernardo Kastrup quote is suggesting? He clearly suggests the possibility of extra-dimensional organs. Or am I to take someone of his stature as a total fool and listen to some forever negativists here? I'll hang my hat on Kastrup saying things that can not be summarily dismissed by this crowd.

[+joc]

19 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

So, what do you think the Bernardo Kastrup quote is suggesting? He clearly suggests the possibility of extra-dimensional organs. Or am I to take someone of his stature as a total fool and listen to some forever negativists here? I'll hang my hat on Kastrup saying things that can not be summarily dismissed by this crowd.

I don't care what Bernardo Kastrup is suggesting or what he thinks.   Why don't you care what Physicists suggest? 

 Bernardo Kastrup:

Quote

Well, I have a quite ‘scientistic’ background even, and if you will, a very rationalistic background. I have a degree in computer engineering.

Well there you have it...a degree in Computer Engineering.  I'm sure he knows quite a bit about computer engineering.  What he does NOT have is a degree in Physics!  

I rest my case...hang your hat where ever you feel at home...even if it's a cardboard box in San Francisco...

Edited December 15, 2019 by joc

[Wes83]

A physics degree shows that someone has amassed much knowledge on accepted theories, it does not infer one has the capacity to think originally.

Einsteins theories are still accepted because they can largely make predictions, but not fully. As Joc mentioned, there are some real issues with relativity.

Heres my issue with accepted theories that can make predictions and stay afloat. Train a dog to receive a treat when he hits the bell and said dog could believe the very act of hitting the bell could produce a treat. He could completely miss the fact of the owner having to purchase and deliver those treats. He doesn’t understand the full mechanics of how that treat gets to him other than the bell. 
 

A completely wrong theory could still provide relevant predictions.

[papageorge1]

1 hour ago, joc said:

I don't care what Bernardo Kastrup is suggesting or what he thinks.   Why don't you care what Physicists suggest? 

 Bernardo Kastrup:

 

And I'm supposed to care what Joc says and think he speaks for 'physics'. I am sure Kastrup consults with and talks with physicists. I am sure he would not be saying things any physicist would scoff at.

[Timothy]

3 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

*snip*
anti-paranormalist
*snip*

Maybe provide some evidence then...

[psyche101]

5 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

So, what do you think the Bernardo Kastrup quote is suggesting?

Mainly that he has way too much time on his hands. It's a pretty dumb idea actually.

Quote

He clearly suggests the possibility of extra-dimensional organs.

He most certainly does not discuss this as a possibility. It's a thought experiment. As I said, a pretty dumb one. He should lose funding just for being stupid.

What is this do called possibility? What bodily functions are unexplained but would be clarified by the discovery of a hidden 10th dimensional organ?

Quote

Or am I to take someone of his stature as a total fool and listen to some forever negativists here?

Philosophy is Philosophy. It's not science by any means. That he happens to be a computer scientist had no bearing here, you might as well ask a GP how to Fix a mechanical engineering problem. He is applying his philosophies on fundamental theoretical reflections on the mind and matter.

Quote

I'll hang my hat on Kastrup saying things that can not be summarily dismissed by this crowd.

They can be sumarily dismissed and have been. It's a philosophical idea with no hypotheses or grounding. It's supposed to be a mind experiment if anything, but it's a pretty dumb one really.

[+joc]

1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

Mainly that he has way too much time on his hands. It's a pretty dumb idea actually.

He most certainly does not discuss this as a possibility. It's a thought experiment. As I said, a pretty dumb one. He should lose funding just for being stupid.

What is this do called possibility? What bodily functions are unexplained but would be clarified by the discovery of a hidden 10th dimensional organ?

Philosophy is Philosophy. It's not science by any means. That he happens to be a computer scientist had no bearing here, you might as well ask a GP how to Fix a mechanical engineering problem. He is applying his philosophies on fundamental theoretical reflections on the mind and matter.

They can be sumarily dismissed and have been. It's a philosophical idea with no hypotheses or grounding. It's supposed to be a mind experiment if anything, but it's a pretty dumb one really.

I actually did laugh out loud at that! 

And why would body parts be hidden in a different dimension of spacetime?  ...but see...  that is exactly where Papageorgy wants to go...other dimensions in which an altered reality keeps morphing in and out of this one.  Why isn't there a part of Earth that is in ...another dimension...and crapola of that sort.  What Papeye doesn't understand is that relativity is the relationship between space, time and matter.  Spacetime warps...the Earth isn't warping because the spacetime around it is.

It's like religion...it makes complete total sense and is incredibly believable...'within the context of the religion'.  Step out into the real world and Religion faced with actual facts falls apart rather quickly.  Paranormal is a Religion for some.  Just as UFOlogy  is.   Just as Spiritualism is.  It only makes sense within the context of the concept.

Which is really the whole point of String Theory anyway isn't it?  An attempt to answer questions about relativity of spacetime?  And it is working within the world of facts...not concepts.  Simply put  2 + 2 = 4.  It is a mathematical equation which leaves no argument as to it's factuality.  It works...100% of the time.  In other words, that equation always works.  Einstein's equations work very well  but not in every situation...   Enter String Theory.  Nothing to do with Life Forms in different dimensions.  

 

[psyche101]

6 minutes ago, joc said:

I actually did laugh out loud at that! 

And why would body parts be hidden in a different dimension of spacetime?  ...but see...  that is exactly where Papageorgy wants to go...other dimensions in which an altered reality keeps morphing in and out of this one.  Why isn't there a part of Earth that is in ...another dimension...and crapola of that sort.  What Papeye doesn't understand is that relativity is the relationship between space, time and matter.  Spacetime warps...the Earth isn't warping because the spacetime around it is.

It's like religion...it makes complete total sense and is incredibly believable...'within the context of the religion'.  Step out into the real world and Religion faced with actual facts falls apart rather quickly.  Paranormal is a Religion for some.  Just as UFOlogy  is.   Just as Spiritualism is.  It only makes sense within the context of the concept.

Which is really the whole point of String Theory anyway isn't it?  An attempt to answer questions about relativity of spacetime?  And it is working within the world of facts...not concepts.  Simply put  2 + 2 = 4.  It is a mathematical equation which leaves no argument as to it's factuality.  It works...100% of the time.  In other words, that equation always works.  Einstein's equations work very well  but not in every situation...   Enter String Theory.  Nothing to do with Life Forms in different dimensions.  

 

It's supposed to be an organ hidden in plain sight. PG's idea is that an unobservable organ allows human's to breach the paranormal. Again, he is getting sci fi and string dimensions mixed up. I'm not sure if it's deliberate or really that hard for his mind to fathom. His laughable demonstration on Chakras illustrated a vague similarity of what he is trying to propose here. As demonstrated with his knowledge on Chakras, he is ridiculously out of his depth here on all fronts. Basically, his brain is just vomiting on his keyboard.

Very Deepak Chopra. Toss a bunch of terms into a word salad and think your some sort of sage. Invoking ancient stories as esoteric answers whilst presenting modern scam versions of ancient tradition. He hasn't the foggiest what he is actually promoting and doesn't understand enough about science to string together a coherent sentence. This thread has actually been a very clear demonstration of just that.