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and then

Pelosi: U.S. can't survive 2 terms of Trump

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and then
12 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

How about you?  How do you think him being removed when half or more of the country still support him would unfold?

I noticed that you declined to answer this.  Any particular reason?  This is about Realpolitik.  Action and reaction in real life, outside of House or Senate arguments.

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Golden Duck
14 minutes ago, and then said:

So you DO believe he should be removed and the choice of 63 million Americans disavowed for one minor offense.  Good to know how little respect you have for the ballot box and rule of law in general.

 

11 minutes ago, and then said:

I noticed that you declined to answer this.  Any particular reason?  This is about Realpolitik.  Action and reaction in real life, outside of House or Senate arguments.

You know the members of the executive get sacked all the time.  Many times the a Transport Minister will be sacked, or resign, because of their driving history.  These type of offences are less than a misdemeanour.

Staff, in both the public and private sector, will be sacked for a conflict of interest.  This is a civil matter.

Now why did the the Chief Public Servant not follow legislation?  You're calling it an act of rebellion.  No rank-and-file public servant could use that as a successful defence.  Are we're talking about the office that's held to the highest standard.

Now, I've voted in every election I've been eligible to vote in; and, believe our representatives should be held to a higher standard.  Just because you're popular doesn't give you a free pass to breach standards.

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Tatetopa
2 hours ago, F3SS said:

While people on both sides of the fence might hate the opposing politicians the difference between us is that most people on my side of the fence will draw the line at that while a lopsided amount of people on the other side hate us too. We're angry at politicians, they're angry at us. We might think the other side is nuts but they hold us in contempt. I can't even put a sign in front of my house during election season or wear a red hat in public without a legitimate concern of vandalism or violence. It's clear who needs to bury the hate and anger.

Good comment.  I really don't know the ratios, but there are jerks on both sides.  

But I don't hate you or any body else for their views.  I don't even hate Trump.  May not like him but don't hate him.

May seem unbelievable, but I have learned a lot from people with opposing views.  Andthen will scoff, but I have read his posts and don't always disagree, and a couple of his posts have changed my mind on issues.

I like the discussion, and even understand why his supporters like him.   But I read up on Hillary, know she is unethical.  I get the feeling the Trump supporters don't want to delve too deeply/  

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bee
3 hours ago, F3SS said:

While people on both sides of the fence might hate the opposing politicians the difference between us is that most people on my side of the fence will draw the line at that while a lopsided amount of people on the other side hate us too. We're angry at politicians, they're angry at us. We might think the other side is nuts but they hold us in contempt. I can't even put a sign in front of my house during election season or wear a red hat in public without a legitimate concern of vandalism or violence. It's clear who needs to bury the hate and anger.

 

It's come to this......:(

and those working hard to divide and rule must be rubbing their hands together in glee...
at a successful mission to release  base, unpleasant instincts lurking beneath the surface that
are usually held in check by fear of the law and self moderation...

and those vulnerable to the Propaganda Mission against Trump have been weaponized against
their fellow citizens... neighbour against neighbour... friend against friend..... families member
against family member....

When you have senior politicians like Maxine Waters openly encouraging harassment and intimidation
then you know something has gone very wrong -

 

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bee
1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

Political Cartoons by Tom Stiglich

 

and here is a little scene illustrating the Farce... I'm surprised the gavel hasn't been worn down with all
the use it's getting ....
 

WHAT IS THIS?! The MOST Bizarre Moment at President Trump Impeachment Hearing
 

 

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bee

 

this video was sneered at earlier in this thread... I've just watched it again to check and there is
nothing wrong with it... in fact it carries spiritual strength if it is watched with an open heart..

no matter who we are or where we are there is something that connects us - an energy running
through all life on earth - the energy that alerts us to an incoming phone call before it arrives..
or a mother rabbit who reacts to her baby being threatened on the other side of the planet, or 
a plant responding to the intentions of a human.... or the emotions felt during a world wide Silence...
etc etc...

I think this is a beautiful scene portrayed in the video and you can see Trump is feeling the spiritual
energy flowing to him and through him... 

 

  

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OverSword
11 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

We will survive. The anger and the hate won't be buried so easily though.

That’s getting old

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Tatetopa
3 hours ago, OverSword said:

That’s getting old

Sure is.  Old and not helpful to anybody.

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Hammerclaw

Impeachment has left the farm town and has been sent up to the big leagues. Time to hear the other side groan about it's partisan treatment.

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Farmer77
48 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Impeachment has left the farm town and has been sent up to the big leagues. Time to hear the other side groan about it's partisan treatment.

What complaints do you see forthcoming ? 

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Sir Wearer of Hats
13 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

What complaints do you see forthcoming ? 

Ignoring the will of the people who voted for El Trumpo, political bias, wasting the senate’s time, witch-hunt, “but Hilary....” and/or “But Biden.....”

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Doug1029
17 hours ago, F3SS said:

While people on both sides of the fence might hate the opposing politicians the difference between us is that most people on my side of the fence will draw the line at that while a lopsided amount of people on the other side hate us too. We're angry at politicians, they're angry at us. We might think the other side is nuts but they hold us in contempt. I can't even put a sign in front of my house during election season or wear a red hat in public without a legitimate concern of vandalism or violence. It's clear who needs to bury the hate and anger.

I had my Hillary sign stolen.  Yes.  It's quite clear who needs to bury the hate and anger.

Doug

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F3SS
19 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

I had my Hillary sign stolen.  Yes.  It's quite clear who needs to bury the hate and anger.

Doug

 I'm sure you did and it was probably by a Bernie supporter.

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Tatetopa
2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Impeachment has left the farm town and has been sent up to the big leagues. Time to hear the other side groan about it's partisan treatment.

Have we become more partisan than during the Clinton impeachment a generation or so ago?  Did Clinton get notified of charges while he was about to light the National Christmas tree?

For that matter, did anybody testify who was actually on the scene and part of the act., Monica for example?   No, at the time, Monica didn't testify that she was pressured and Bill thought it was perfect sex.  She waited until the Clintons were out of office and no longer a threat.  One wonders what Zelinsky might say when Trump is no longer a threat to his nation.

But impeachment t wasn't about the sex act was it?  It was about  lying to Congress and obstruction of their investigation..  Is that a high crime and misdemeanor worthy of impeachment?  Well apparently it is.  Any parallels with today?

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Hammerclaw
29 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Have we become more partisan than during the Clinton impeachment a generation or so ago?  Did Clinton get notified of charges while he was about to light the National Christmas tree?

For that matter, did anybody testify who was actually on the scene and part of the act., Monica for example?   No, at the time, Monica didn't testify that she was pressured and Bill thought it was perfect sex.  She waited until the Clintons were out of office and no longer a threat.  One wonders what Zelinsky might say when Trump is no longer a threat to his nation.

But impeachment t wasn't about the sex act was it?  It was about  lying to Congress and obstruction of their investigation..  Is that a high crime and misdemeanor worthy of impeachment?  Well apparently it is.  Any parallels with today?

There was no obstruction--unless thinking about it is a crime. What lie? If an alleged victim of a crime says there was no crime, that pretty much cuts the legs out from under any charges. Hearsay and "what wonders" pretty much sums up the basis for this farcical and doomed partisan impeachment, just as the founding fathers intended.

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acidhead

:D

Edited by acidhead

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acidhead
On 12/8/2019 at 1:56 PM, joc said:

Dude! They are all on YouTube...hete you go...this is the one in Dallas only a few months ago.

 

Another MAGA Trump Rally tonight!

Only a few hrs ago representatives from Canada, Mexico and the USA signed an agreement to replace NAFTA with (USMCA)

PROMISES MADE PROMISES KEPT

TRUMP 2020

 

 

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and then
17 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

Now, I've voted in every election I've been eligible to vote in; and, believe our representatives should be held to a higher standard.  Just because you're popular doesn't give you a free pass to breach standards.

In America, we hold the power of the ballot to be sacrosanct.  We are empowered to live together and to compromise our desires to the group for our absolute NEEDS so as to remain strong and at peace with each other.  When a political feud is used to shatter that tradition for the sake of removing a president who was chosen by the rules, that is, the majority of voters in the majority of states, it seriously risks weakening our system of government.  You seem willing to destroy a country over a single potentially inappropriate action by the Chief Executive.  I'd hate to be a teen living under your authority.  You have a definite lean toward despotism.

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Golden Duck
13 minutes ago, and then said:

In America, we hold the power of the ballot to be sacrosanct.  We are empowered to live together and to compromise our desires to the group for our absolute NEEDS so as to remain strong and at peace with each other.  When a political feud is used to shatter that tradition for the sake of removing a president who was chosen by the rules, that is, the majority of voters in the majority of states, it seriously risks weakening our system of government.  You seem willing to destroy a country over a single potentially inappropriate action by the Chief Executive.  I'd hate to be a teen living under your authority.  You have a definite lean toward despotism.

You're running on emotion dude and bias.

You didn't grab one of those examples I gave and say "I'm happy for my tax dollars to pay for that kind of public service."

What I'm talking about is a maturity of governance that permeates all levels. That can't be implemented under despotism.

You'd be all over this act like a rash if Obama did it. No doubt you included him when said previous Presidents must've done the same thing.

In Australia we hold the ballot in such ultimate regard that it's compulsory to vote.  On election day you play what's in front of you. Recently we found a number of Parliamentarians were in breach of the constitution. Some advocated to change the constitution; but, that's just solutioneering. IMO, if you're in public office you should be able to demonstrate the due diligence that shows you're fit for public office. You know, showing you can get the minor things right and all that.

In truth the Articles of Imoeachment perhaps should've been drafted after GAO reports.

 

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Tatetopa
4 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

There was no obstruction--unless thinking about it is a crime. What lie? If an alleged victim of a crime says there was no crime, that pretty much cuts the legs out from under any charges. Hearsay and "what wonders" pretty much sums up the basis for this farcical and doomed partisan impeachment, just as the founding fathers intended.

I am not proud or impressed by the Democrats, but they are not the only passengers in this clown car.

In any other context this would be silly, Republicans have been all over the map on this one.  #1 It was a perfect call, he didn't ask for a personal political favor, #2 You don't have any direct evidence, just what people heard on the phone, and a few records.                   #3 Everybody does it, so what.  #4 He never said that  #5 He only did it because he is (suddenly) so interested in corruption and Joe and Hunter Biden must be crooks.  #6  It was the Ukraine and not Russia  that meddled in our elections and they need to start looking for Hillary's server. 

#7 Zalinsky did not say he was pressured.  This is a rather weak logical argument for any defense. If you are the President of a nation fighting a war with Russia, your soldiers and civilians are dying and your supposed ally was holding up aid that might make the difference for your country and your family's survival; would you really risk angering the most powerful and unpredictable leader in the world by not going along?  He did have a bit more to say after the aid got released, but he was careful.

The aid didn't get released until OMB people started squawking and asking if that was illegal,  Trumps great sharpie written speech was not until several people had already sworn to the contrary.

If it was really such a clean and innocent deal, why all of the fallback stories.

I suppose Congress might consider it obstruction if requested records were not released and requested witnesses were not allowed to testify.

Both sides of this are as the Prez would say, a disgrace.

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Michelle
2 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

#7 Zalinsky did not say he was pressured.  This is a rather weak logical argument for any defense. If you are the President of a nation fighting a war with Russia, your soldiers and civilians are dying and your supposed ally was holding up aid that might make the difference for your country and your family's survival; would you really risk angering the most powerful and unpredictable leader in the world by not going along?  He did have a bit more to say after the aid got released, but he was careful.

I never have been clear on why Obama withheld aid to them all those years. Every article is so convoluted. We are supposed to be an ally.

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Tatetopa
19 minutes ago, Michelle said:

I never have been clear on why Obama withheld aid to them all those years. Every article is so convoluted. We are supposed to be an ally.

I don't know either.  We are supposed to be allies. He did send some aid, but it wasn't the armament they needed.  I don't know if he thought non-military aid would de-escalate the situation or what.  In hindsight, it sure seems like a bad decision.  The conflict has been going on quite a while and a lot of Ukrainians have dies,

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Hammerclaw
4 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

I am not proud or impressed by the Democrats, but they are not the only passengers in this clown car.

In any other context this would be silly, Republicans have been all over the map on this one.  #1 It was a perfect call, he didn't ask for a personal political favor, #2 You don't have any direct evidence, just what people heard on the phone, and a few records.                   #3 Everybody does it, so what.  #4 He never said that  #5 He only did it because he is (suddenly) so interested in corruption and Joe and Hunter Biden must be crooks.  #6  It was the Ukraine and not Russia  that meddled in our elections and they need to start looking for Hillary's server. 

#7 Zalinsky did not say he was pressured.  This is a rather weak logical argument for any defense. If you are the President of a nation fighting a war with Russia, your soldiers and civilians are dying and your supposed ally was holding up aid that might make the difference for your country and your family's survival; would you really risk angering the most powerful and unpredictable leader in the world by not going along?  He did have a bit more to say after the aid got released, but he was careful.

The aid didn't get released until OMB people started squawking and asking if that was illegal,  Trumps great sharpie written speech was not until several people had already sworn to the contrary.

If it was really such a clean and innocent deal, why all of the fallback stories.

I suppose Congress might consider it obstruction if requested records were not released and requested witnesses were not allowed to testify.

Both sides of this are as the Prez would say, a disgrace.

According to Democrats they don't need a crime or evidence or anything. The side that loses will be disgraced, while piously whining they were only doing their duty. To the victor the spoils. In the '90s it was the Dems and they got to keep Willy. Now it will be the GOP and four more years of Trump. Unless, of course, the Dems pull a winning candidate out of their hats. 

Edited by Hammerclaw

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RoofGardener

"Pelosi: US can't survive 2 terms of Trump"

I've spoken at length with the US Geological Survey, and apparently Pelosi is correct. If Trump wins a second term, then the Yellowstone Volcano will erupt, there will be earthquakes all along the San Andreas fault, and - on a lighter note - California will sink into the sea. So it's an ill wind that blows nobody any good ! 

Edited by RoofGardener

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toast

BTW:

Quote

Court fines Trump $2 million for charity foundation misuse

The US president diverted funds donated by veterans to his personal charity to support his 2016 election campaign. He used the money, among other things, to pay for a 1.8-meter-high portrait of himself.

US President Donald Trump was ordered to pay $2 million (€1.8 million) to several charities after he misused his own charity foundation to further business and political interests.

Trump used money donated by veterans to the now-dissolved Donald J. Trump Foundation to further his 2016 election campaign, found the state Supreme Court in Manhattan, on Thursday.

During the run-up to the 2016 Iowa caucuses, Trump allowed his presidential campaign staff to coordinate with his charity in holding a fundraiser for veterans.

He used $10,000 of the money raised to pay for a 1.8-meter-tall painting of himself, among other things.

The ruling came at the end of a 21-month probe by the New York attorney general's office.

dw.com

 

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