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mktexan

A Warning From Spirit

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joc
1 minute ago, mktexan said:

Not at all. I'm following all of it like I always do and am enjoying the sidebar. It gets me thinking.

Then, if I may add ... perceptions are often misperceptions which is precisely why they are NOT reality. 

Concrete is ALWAYS concrete.

Lemon meringue is ALWAYS lemon meringue.

Thank you! :)

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jypsijemini
6 hours ago, joc said:

Reality = a brick wall with you approaching very fast in a car.

Perception = you thinking the brick wall doesn't really exist.

Now, I'm thinking the wall is there.  It is real.  It is going to be bad news when you hit the wall.  

You are thinking...the bricks are not real...I can drive right through them.  

How do you think that is going to end?

Unexplained Mysteries for the most part ARE arguments about Truth and Reality and Factual Evidence vs Perceptions and Belief 

Perfectly good argument right there, but you've taken it out of the context in which my claims were made.

I'm not talking about something like matter and my perceptions warping the nature of matter. They're energies vibrating at a certain frequency to create the illusion of a materialistic reality. In essence, bricks will always be bricks so far as I'm concerned. Just like the disappointing fact that no amount of willpower or perception will give me the ability to fly.

What I'm talking about are concepts which are non-physical and are yet to be absolutely discredited and explained through science. XenoFish disagrees here and holds the belief that psychology and neurological science holds the answer as to why humans have sychronistic, coincidental experiences and premonitions.

It's like the argument of the Mandela Effect. People who experience the phenomenon are adamant that their memories are not false and this gains credence with the growing number of genuine and honest testimonies coming out that support this theory. If a very small group of people, say from a limited time frame and specific area were making these claims then yes - it'd be suffice to say that the phenomenon is due to poor memory and suggestibility. However, genuine ME believers don't test this theory out on others by asking "Was it this way or that way?" - they'll find a roundabout way to gain an idea of the person's original memory. For example, instead of asking, "Was it the lion or the wolf who lays with the lamb," a serious ME believer will ask their companions, "Which animal is said to have laid down with the lamb in the Bible?".

And like the Mandela Effect, sceptics are quick to argue that all the ME is are falsified memories and suggestability. Yes, human memory is flawed and subject to change! Nobody is arguing that (well, a few, but not all ME believers). However it is very real for some people, and becomes more intriguing the more it gains popularity as it covers many topics, not just Nelson Mandela's date of death. And with that, it causes even more speculation as believers begin to uncover and share the evidence they believe prove their claims (eg. James Earl Jones quoting the line as, "LUKE, I am your father" and Tom Hanks reciting, "Life IS like a box of chocolates" - and the VHS cover showing that exact wording.)

Science isn't always up to speed with human belief and perception. It's the existence of believed notions which fuel many aspects of science - when an idea becomes widespread enough, scientists want to clarify and find ways to understand it. Some will take sides, either working to prove or disprove the theory, and others are impartial and just want to find out either way whether there is hard evidence to substantiate the claims either way.

Can you imagine humanity accepting quantum physics & mechanics during the middle ages? Forget that they weren't even close to having the necessary technology - what if in some obscure, unimaginable way, they were able to prove it? For that point in time, that sort of knowledge would have been inconceivable. It destroys the very foundations of all understanding - religious, scientific, philosophical etc. The idea that all reality is simply energy, frequency and vibration obliterates what is known and accepted to be true. They weren't ready for that at all. I imagine such a discovery would have most likely been abandoned, covered up and vehemently denied. It just didn't fit with what they understood and accepted at the time.

And I feel it's the same way when mainstream modern science tries to look at the unnatural. There are educated, experienced professionals out there on a solo-plight to find evidence to support or discredit unconventional claims. Like past lives - the study of timeless and worldwide claims, particularly from children who give details about past lives - many of which can be traced back and substantiated. And the research into psychic phenomena such as remote viewing, premonitions, etc. In some cases, the scientific methods don't yet exist (the same as there was no way for scientists from the 1820 had no way to analyse DNA) for there to be any concrete way to prove OR disprove such commonly held beliefs.

Right now, abstract and largely unproven concepts such as synchronicities, coincidences, premonitions and the like are the 'round earth' to the flat earth believers of 1500. It's inconcievable and very few people are willing to go out on a limb, to risk their reputations and careers to prove such an 'outrageous' theory. Today's science claims to be able to explain it away and yet for some, the theories are too widely accepted and continual to accept the ruling present-day science has made on it. That's the nature of science! It's so common to hear that there have been break throughs, new discoveries and changes to scientific theory based on new evidence and new methods that allow for a deeper and more intricate understanding. Old theories are constantly being recanted and updated in the light of new findings.

Therefore, I believe in perception. Before quantum physics, we held the believe that we live in a concrete physical reality of matter, space and time. Now the presence of this new form of science is obliterating previously accepted 'facts'. Once upon a time, humanity perceived the world as flat. Today, sceptics of the globe earth are viciously ridiculed because there's more evidence that since came to light that stands to discredit and disprove that theory. Both sides work tirelessly to present their evidence as best as they currently know how.

It's like me telling someone who's colourblind that what they see is wrong. Until recently, there was no way for me to prove to a colourblind person that what they saw was different from 'reality'. Their reality is one in which colours are limited. That's their perception. Now, I can buy a pair of glasses which gives them the ability to see the world in all its colourful, vibrant glory and therefore, my statements can be proven. It's the same with these abstract mind-based concepts of synchronicities, coincidences, premonitions, signs, miracles etc. So far, neither side has the resources to absolutely prove their claims. Therefore, sceptics are allowed to hold onto the belief that such experiences are a process of the mind, and believers are allowed to continue to trust their own experiences. Eventually there will be a way to explain what's causing them. It's healthy to always have two sides on the matter, whatever it may be. It allows for continual growth and updated understanding. We're curious, inquisitive creatures who like to understand things and gain knowledge. When we don't know the answer to something, we want to find out. And if there's no way to find a conclusive answer, we construct theories which we can trial and test using the methods currently available.

It's healthy to keep an open mind because once you don't, you hinder your ability and willingness to learn more. You think that your answer is final and that there's no reason to continue further on the matter. Imagine if everybody accepted that the earth was flat...

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joc
7 minutes ago, jypsijemini said:

Perfectly good argument right there, but you've taken it out of the context in which my claims were made.

I'm not talking about something like matter and my perceptions warping the nature of matter. They're energies vibrating at a certain frequency to create the illusion of a materialistic reality. In essence, bricks will always be bricks so far as I'm concerned. Just like the disappointing fact that no amount of willpower or perception will give me the ability to fly.

What I'm talking about are concepts which are non-physical and are yet to be absolutely discredited and explained through science. XenoFish disagrees here and holds the belief that psychology and neurological science holds the answer as to why humans have sychronistic, coincidental experiences and premonitions.

It's like the argument of the Mandela Effect. People who experience the phenomenon are adamant that their memories are not false and this gains credence with the growing number of genuine and honest testimonies coming out that support this theory. If a very small group of people, say from a limited time frame and specific area were making these claims then yes - it'd be suffice to say that the phenomenon is due to poor memory and suggestibility. However, genuine ME believers don't test this theory out on others by asking "Was it this way or that way?" - they'll find a roundabout way to gain an idea of the person's original memory. For example, instead of asking, "Was it the lion or the wolf who lays with the lamb," a serious ME believer will ask their companions, "Which animal is said to have laid down with the lamb in the Bible?".

And like the Mandela Effect, sceptics are quick to argue that all the ME is are falsified memories and suggestability. Yes, human memory is flawed and subject to change! Nobody is arguing that (well, a few, but not all ME believers). However it is very real for some people, and becomes more intriguing the more it gains popularity as it covers many topics, not just Nelson Mandela's date of death. And with that, it causes even more speculation as believers begin to uncover and share the evidence they believe prove their claims (eg. James Earl Jones quoting the line as, "LUKE, I am your father" and Tom Hanks reciting, "Life IS like a box of chocolates" - and the VHS cover showing that exact wording.)

Science isn't always up to speed with human belief and perception. It's the existence of believed notions which fuel many aspects of science - when an idea becomes widespread enough, scientists want to clarify and find ways to understand it. Some will take sides, either working to prove or disprove the theory, and others are impartial and just want to find out either way whether there is hard evidence to substantiate the claims either way.

Can you imagine humanity accepting quantum physics & mechanics during the middle ages? Forget that they weren't even close to having the necessary technology - what if in some obscure, unimaginable way, they were able to prove it? For that point in time, that sort of knowledge would have been inconceivable. It destroys the very foundations of all understanding - religious, scientific, philosophical etc. The idea that all reality is simply energy, frequency and vibration obliterates what is known and accepted to be true. They weren't ready for that at all. I imagine such a discovery would have most likely been abandoned, covered up and vehemently denied. It just didn't fit with what they understood and accepted at the time.

And I feel it's the same way when mainstream modern science tries to look at the unnatural. There are educated, experienced professionals out there on a solo-plight to find evidence to support or discredit unconventional claims. Like past lives - the study of timeless and worldwide claims, particularly from children who give details about past lives - many of which can be traced back and substantiated. And the research into psychic phenomena such as remote viewing, premonitions, etc. In some cases, the scientific methods don't yet exist (the same as there was no way for scientists from the 1820 had no way to analyse DNA) for there to be any concrete way to prove OR disprove such commonly held beliefs.

Right now, abstract and largely unproven concepts such as synchronicities, coincidences, premonitions and the like are the 'round earth' to the flat earth believers of 1500. It's inconcievable and very few people are willing to go out on a limb, to risk their reputations and careers to prove such an 'outrageous' theory. Today's science claims to be able to explain it away and yet for some, the theories are too widely accepted and continual to accept the ruling present-day science has made on it. That's the nature of science! It's so common to hear that there have been break throughs, new discoveries and changes to scientific theory based on new evidence and new methods that allow for a deeper and more intricate understanding. Old theories are constantly being recanted and updated in the light of new findings.

Therefore, I believe in perception. Before quantum physics, we held the believe that we live in a concrete physical reality of matter, space and time. Now the presence of this new form of science is obliterating previously accepted 'facts'. Once upon a time, humanity perceived the world as flat. Today, sceptics of the globe earth are viciously ridiculed because there's more evidence that since came to light that stands to discredit and disprove that theory. Both sides work tirelessly to present their evidence as best as they currently know how.

It's like me telling someone who's colourblind that what they see is wrong. Until recently, there was no way for me to prove to a colourblind person that what they saw was different from 'reality'. Their reality is one in which colours are limited. That's their perception. Now, I can buy a pair of glasses which gives them the ability to see the world in all its colourful, vibrant glory and therefore, my statements can be proven. It's the same with these abstract mind-based concepts of synchronicities, coincidences, premonitions, signs, miracles etc. So far, neither side has the resources to absolutely prove their claims. Therefore, sceptics are allowed to hold onto the belief that such experiences are a process of the mind, and believers are allowed to continue to trust their own experiences. Eventually there will be a way to explain what's causing them. It's healthy to always have two sides on the matter, whatever it may be. It allows for continual growth and updated understanding. We're curious, inquisitive creatures who like to understand things and gain knowledge. When we don't know the answer to something, we want to find out. And if there's no way to find a conclusive answer, we construct theories which we can trial and test using the methods currently available.

It's healthy to keep an open mind because once you don't, you hinder your ability and willingness to learn more. You think that your answer is final and that there's no reason to continue further on the matter. Imagine if everybody accepted that the earth was flat...

Nonetheless...my perception is that, there are things which are 'possible' but not probable.  And there are things which are 'possible' and probable.  There are also things which are 'impossible'...such as you flying off your balcony like Super Man.  So...first...we remove from the conversation the things which are impossible.  Then we move forward with the things which are both possible and probable.  And lastly we investigate the things which are possible but improbable.   Which...unfortunately, leaves your perceptions on the back burner waiting their turn...a turn which may never come.

Thank you btw for an indulgent and thoughtful response.  I award you Two Gold Stars.  One for articulating your points in a readable and understandable format...i.e...paragraphs...and One More for just being sweet about it all. :)

 

 

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lightly
13 hours ago, joc said:

Then, if I may add ... perceptions are often misperceptions which is precisely why they are NOT reality. 

Concrete is ALWAYS concrete.

Lemon meringue is ALWAYS lemon meringue.

Thank you! :)

Good grief....   Correct, perceptions are not reality.. they  are perceptions of reality...However,  I was compelled to respond to your statement ...."Perceptions are not real"   because that is Incorrect.  .   Think it over...

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joc
10 minutes ago, lightly said:

Good grief....   Correct, perceptions are not reality.. they  are perceptions of reality...However,  I was compelled to respond to your statement ...."Perceptions are not real"   because that is Incorrect.  .   Think it over...

So...you know what I mean...yet you want to rake me over the coals for it anyway.  Okay.   You can.  I'll give it to you...perceptions are real...they are not reality. Happy? :)

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lightly
30 minutes ago, joc said:

So...you know what I mean...yet you want to rake me over the coals for it anyway.  Okay.   You can.  I'll give it to you...perceptions are real...they are not reality. Happy? :)

No, I wasn't sure  that you did understand.  Yes, I'm happy now, I hate ambiguities.   Thank you joc. 

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razman

Well it was 2 days late and you didn't die. Maybe your awareness of the possibility changed it.

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Desertrat56

@mktexan,

https://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Near-Death-Experience/dp/B009UX6NGI

http://epicvictories.com/health-harvard-neurosurgeon-writes-book-on-life-after-death-experience/

People all have a different ideas about what happens when you almost die, when you have an experience where you are not in or aware of your body and then return to your body.  No one knows, you have to research and figure it out.  Many people have had many different types of experiences.  I even read part of a book by a man who claims he ended up in hell instead of heaven.  I think his thinking was crucial to that experience.  He did not seem to come away with any self responsibility of the type of experience he had.  I think that is crucial.  My opinion is that the experience you have has everything to do with how you think and what you expect.  Also, my opinion is that since you experienced the void and not "heaven" or "hell" or loved ones waiting for you, you were not ready to die, but you needed to take a break from your body to regroup, or maybe to prepare for pain or what ever.  I don't know any more than anyone else, just guessing based on my perceptions and conclusions.

Blessings and thank you for your service.

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