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Ozfactor

Volcano Erupts in New Zealand

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Eldorado

Update:

"Two people who were being treated in hospital after the eruption of New Zealand's White Island volcano have died, bringing the official number of victims to eight, police say.

"Nine people are still officially missing, presumed dead, and efforts to retrieve bodies from the island were put on hold on Wednesday amid signs of increased seismic activity.

"Another 20 people are in intensive care with severe burns.

"One has been moved to Australia."

Ful report at the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-50750324

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Hammerclaw

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Professor Buzzkill

I see that the fact that the police were turned around on their way to the island hasn't been mentioned. It was only volunteers who got the survivors off the island. 

The reason given was health and safety concerns. I doubt the individual officers were that concerned, but the politicians and national managers prevented any official rescue effort.  

 

I say the private helicopter operators and tour boat guides who did respond deserve recognition.

Still to date there hasn't been an official search and rescue party to the island, but there has been increased earthquake activity since yesterday morning

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Doc Socks Junior
On 12/9/2019 at 3:32 PM, Hammerclaw said:

Why does any government allow tourist excursions on an active volcano? 

Many active volcanoes have tourist excursions on them. Been to Hawaii?

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Hammerclaw
13 minutes ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

Many active volcanoes have tourist excursions on them. Been to Hawaii?

Been to Yellowstone? It sits on top a massive super volcano. It's monitored for signs of activity.  That volcano in the Bay of Plenty was a deathtrap waiting to spring. So small an area, no place to run. It was the mouth of hell and they were walking on it's teeth. Hindsight's twenty-twenty.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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susieice

The issue, to me, is that they knew there was enough activity going on to raise the level from 1-2, but there wasn't any magma movement that they could register. This eruption was because of water flashpointing to steam which can happen at any time really. I'm kind of loosely relating it as the same principle as when you have a pot of boiling water on the stove and you remove the lid. A lot of steam comes up and it can burn you pretty bad. Just on a really bigger scale and a lot hotter.

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Hammerclaw
55 minutes ago, susieice said:

The issue, to me, is that they knew there was enough activity going on to raise the level from 1-2, but there wasn't any magma movement that they could register. This eruption was because of water flashpointing to steam which can happen at any time really. I'm kind of loosely relating it as the same principle as when you have a pot of boiling water on the stove and you remove the lid. A lot of steam comes up and it can burn you pretty bad. Just on a really bigger scale and a lot hotter.

It was clearing it's throat. Magma was rising heating ground water causing a steam explosion. Those poor people were cooked alive in an instant. No volcano should be entrusted to private hands--certainly not to make a quick buck.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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susieice

There are pictures taken minutes before the eruption showing people approaching the rim.It was taken by a camera belonging to The Institute of Geological and Nuclear Sciences. I got this from CNN. You can see them just to the left of center. There must have been little to no warning. 

An image from a camera run by the Institute of Geological and Nuclear Sciences (GNS) at the crater on White Island appears to show a group of people close to its rim, just minutes before the eruption.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/09/asia/new-zealand-white-island-volcano-intl-hnk/index.html

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susieice

This is from the BBC showing the same picture as above. The website GeoNet warned that the volcano was more active than usual but "the current level of activity does not pose a direct threat to visitors". It's weird because I have ABC News on my TV right now and they just said the volcano is showing increased activity now and could erupt within the next 24 hrs. I guess recovery teams just can't get near the island.

Edit: The news just said the volcano is highly volatile but plans are to try to retrieve the bodies tomorrow.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-50708727

On 3 December, geological hazard monitoring website GeoNet warned "the volcano may be entering a period where eruptive activity is more likely than normal", although it added "the current level of activity does not pose a direct hazard to visitors".

University of Auckland associate professor Jan Lindsay said the alert level was recently raised from one to two. "There was a heightened level of unrest and everyone was aware," she said.

"[The volcano] has a persistently active hydrothermal system... if gases build up under a block of clay or mud they can be released quite suddenly," Prof Lindsay said.

"It's possible that there's no magma involved, that it's just a phreatic eruption - a steam eruption. We don't know yet."

 

Edited by susieice
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susieice

In my search, I found this article about a volcano in Russia that has been considered long extinct may now be waking up. Eastern Russia would put it on the ring of fire.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/07/europe/russia-volcano-scli-intl-scn/index.html

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susieice

There's a supervolcano near to White Mountain named Taupo. This article is questioning if the eruption could trigger activity here also.

https://www.*** blocked ***/news/science/1214961/New-Zealand-volcano-eruption-trigger-Taupo-supervolcano-erupt-White-Island

NEW ZEALAND’S White Island volcano unexpectedly erupted yesterday (December 6), killing at least six people – but could the deadly eruption awaken the even bigger supervolcano Taupo?

Of course, the link is blocked. Found this wiki about Taupo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taupo_Volcano

Edited by susieice
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susieice

Here's an article from May 6, 2019 about the activity in Yellowstone. Not to go off topic, but we've discussed this.

https://www.techtimes.com/articles/242921/20190506/geologists-recorded-a-lot-of-movement-in-yellowstone-volcano-but-no-danger-of-eruption-yet.htm

This one is from July 9, 2019 after strong earthquakes in California triggered some fear about Yellowstone. We can never forget how active it is.

https://www.newsweek.com/yellowstone-volcano-eruption-fears-california-earthquake-1448193

And here's an older article about what an actual eruption of Yellowstone might be like. Check out the map.

https://www.vox.com/2014/9/5/6108169/yellowstone-supervolcano-eruption

Edited by susieice
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Farmer77
14 minutes ago, susieice said:

We can never forget how active it is.

I grew up with volcanoes in AK but Yellowstone is a civilization ending type thing. Forgetting how active it is is how I get through my days :lol:

 

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susieice
57 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I grew up with volcanoes in AK but Yellowstone is a civilization ending type thing. Forgetting how active it is is how I get through my days :lol:

 

Read the last article from Vox about what would happen if Yellowstone blew. It's a really good and interesting article that explains the volcano in depth. The chances are very very low of a major eruption. Even smaller eruptions, which would be most likely, are rare. The last one was about 70,000 yrs ago. Talk about coincidence, New Zealand's Taupo supervolcano was the last one to erupt, about 26,000 yrs ago. 

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Doc Socks Junior
8 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Been to Yellowstone? It sits on top a massive super volcano. It's monitored for signs of activity.  That volcano in the Bay of Plenty was a deathtrap waiting to spring. So small an area, no place to run. It was the mouth of hell and they were walking on it's teeth. Hindsight's twenty-twenty.

I have been to Yellowstone. People die thanks to volcanic hazards at Yellowstone quite frequently. Then again, I'm not the one advocating for the government banning tourism to active volcanoes. So not a particulately relevant question. I suppose the issue comes down to personal responsibility and governments role in people making their own personal choices. You clearly believe that the government should make choices for people.

White Island is also monitored for activity. So are most active volcanoes close to populations. Monitoring efforts at Mt. St. Helens by the USGS led to the evacuation of hundreds who had been in the blast zone. The geologist who spearheaded that effort against public opinion and pressure died at his observation post.

The comparable situation, I suppose, is Hekla in Iceland. The geologist I talked to when I visited the area around the volcano said that the entire volcano edifice was off-limits to tourists. The magma chamber to surface transit time there is about 15 minutes.

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Hammerclaw
1 hour ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

I have been to Yellowstone. People die thanks to volcanic hazards at Yellowstone quite frequently. Then again, I'm not the one advocating for the government banning tourism to active volcanoes. So not a particulately relevant question. I suppose the issue comes down to personal responsibility and governments role in people making their own personal choices. You clearly believe that the government should make choices for people.

White Island is also monitored for activity. So are most active volcanoes close to populations. Monitoring efforts at Mt. St. Helens by the USGS led to the evacuation of hundreds who had been in the blast zone. The geologist who spearheaded that effort against public opinion and pressure died at his observation post.

The comparable situation, I suppose, is Hekla in Iceland. The geologist I talked to when I visited the area around the volcano said that the entire volcano edifice was off-limits to tourists. The magma chamber to surface transit time there is about 15 minutes.

Governments make choices for people all the time, in the interest of public safety, monitoring and regulating the private sector, so that was a particularly disingenuous criticism. I predict the government of New Zealand will ban further commercial excursions on this very dangerous piece of "private property". 

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Doc Socks Junior
2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Governments make choices for people all the time, in the interest of public safety, monitoring and regulating the private sector, so that was a particularly disingenuous criticism. I predict the government of New Zealand will ban further commercial excursions on this very dangerous piece of "private property". 

No, disingenuous is not knowing the abundance of regularly visited active volcanoes around the world.

Interesting prediction. I wouldn't be surprised if a knee jerk reaction of that sort occurred. 

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Doug1029
2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Governments make choices for people all the time, in the interest of public safety, monitoring and regulating the private sector, so that was a particularly disingenuous criticism. I predict the government of New Zealand will ban further commercial excursions on this very dangerous piece of "private property". 

Where I used to go all by myself in Algonquin Park, Ontario, Canada, one is now required to have a guide.  I suspect that's really just to make jobs for the locals.  But it detracts from the wilderness experience.  I would much rather take responsibility for my own actions and not have some bunch of hothouse tomatoes telling me I can't visit my favorite spots.

Doug

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Hammerclaw
4 hours ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

No, disingenuous is not knowing the abundance of regularly visited active volcanoes around the world.

Interesting prediction. I wouldn't be surprised if a knee jerk reaction of that sort occurred. 

BS is inferring I didn't. Apparently, Junior, the art of the rhetorical question is one that eludes you. No surprise there. 

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Doc Socks Junior
8 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

BS is inferring I didn't. Apparently, Junior, the art of the rhetorical question is one that eludes you. No surprise there. 

Inferring you didn't was the charitable case. If you had inferred it the question (and comments of government irresponsibility) are simply silly. So I guess it's your choice whether or not your initial posts were related to ignorance or they were silly questions.

Take your pick!

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Hammerclaw
56 minutes ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

Inferring you didn't was the charitable case. If you had inferred it the question (and comments of government irresponsibility) are simply silly. So I guess it's your choice whether or not your initial posts were related to ignorance or they were silly questions.

Take your pick!

Obviously, adult conversion's a bit over your head. What's silly is even responding to you and your nothing burger in the first place. I'm sure, now that there's been multiple horrific deaths and casualties, the government of New Zealand with act promptly and appropriately,  comments from the shallow end of the gene pool aside.

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Doc Socks Junior
34 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Obviously, adult conversion's a bit over your head. What's silly is even responding to you and your nothing burger in the first place. I'm sure, now that there's been multiple horrific deaths and casualties, the government of New Zealand with act promptly and appropriately,  comments from the shallow end of the gene pool aside.

Do you also hope that the government of the US can evacuate the active Hawaiian islands, the active volcanic PNW, and close Yellowstone?

Because, you know, deaths and casualties.

But, you know (or maybe don't know) that doesn't make a lot of sense.

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Hammerclaw
Just now, Doc Socks Junior said:

Do you also hope that the government of the US can evacuate the active Hawaiian islands, the active volcanic PNW, and close Yellowstone?

Because, you know, deaths and casualties.

But, you know (or maybe don't know) that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Some risks we simply have accept and live with. Ones that can be avoided, should be. This was marketed as a cheap thrill for decades and people finally paid with their lives. So, when it all dies down, you're for continuing to risk lives for private profit on that island. Certainly says a lot about you.

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Doc Socks Junior
1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

Some risks we simply have accept and live with. Ones that can be avoided, should be. This was marketed as a cheap thrill for decades and people finally paid with their lives. So, when it all dies down, you're for continuing to risk lives for private profit on that island. Certainly says a lot about you.

Well, it says I'm not an illogical paranoid reactionary who doesn't have a high appreciation of relative risks...so I guess that is a lot.

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