Robert and Tristan

December 16, 2019

57 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Where is the substance then? The data supporting these claims? Otherwise they're just claims..

Claims intelligently considered for quantity, quality and consistency with all things considered can affect my beliefs. In fact that’s just normal reasoning skills in action.

December 18, 2019

On 12/16/2019 at 6:40 AM, eight bits said:

Greetings, @Robert and Tristan

I think that's because you've been a polite, gracious and reasonable contributor. Patient, too.

On a few points -

First, you have hinted that you may be facing some life-threatening medical issues. Please accept my sincere wishes that those are cured promptly and are followed by a long and healthy life.

Speaking for myself alone, my interest in depth psychology and Carl Jung doesn't extend to the psychoanalytic application of his work. I am neither analyst nor analysand (Jung-speak for "patient" or "client"). I appreciate that that is a fine line, since so much of Jung's work derived from his clinical practice. Nevertheless, an important result of those experiences was for him to gain insight into healthy mental functioning, even into things that are healthy but not "normal" (not normal meaning rarely reported, not meaning falling short of some supposed standard of merit). I am interested in the range of possibilities for healthy mental development, functioning and expression. That is all.

That's fine. "Hearing voices" is one kind of interaction with an "other," and despite its being an especially dramatic kind, it isn't necessarily or maybe not even usually of pathological origin. Nor are other kinds of interaction with an "other," like yours.

You might be interested in sampling some of the work of anthropologist-psychologist Tanya Luhrmann of Stanford. She focuses on interior dialog (one human being engaging in a conversation which involves a second participant who is not otherwise perceptible). Like Jung and like me, she pursues her inquiries without commitment for or against the ontological status of the "other" participant.

Although I sense that in your case the onset was spontaneous, absorption in such a dialog turns out to be teachable and learnable (that is, a "skill" in some sense). Sometimes this does involve a 'sensory display,' but more often not. Luhrmann is also a good writer, so anything of hers is rewarding to read.

There is a curious searchable testimony about a Westerner suddenly abandoning anger and worry (his terms) without repressing them (the usual term these days for pushing something out of consciousness, and so leaving something to fester unconsciously). This was written in the late 19th Century, so it's about as late as possible without being contaminated by now-dominant views about unconscious functions.

The reporter is Horace Fletcher (more famous-or-notorious for a theory about the benefits of thoroughly chewing one's food), and the word he used is menticulture. A book is online at Gutenberg. Personally, I'd skip over his "theory" prolog and begin with the "personal experience." A natural stopping place is when he gets to the aftermath of his missing a train.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/45040/45040-h/45040-h.htm

Not that I recall. Your readers will be interested in whatever you have to say.

Probably. The adult Uncle Carl lived, worked and played on the shore of Lake Zurich. He wrote a fair amount about the house he built there (he was an accomplished stone mason), less about why the house was there. Part of him knew. Gotta be.

Best wishes.

Eight Bits you are wonderful to take the time to help me in my quest for understanding. You have given me a lot of homework and I will do my best to check out some of these references. Do you know Stanislav Grof? He is a Johns Hopkins alum from the 60's and a psychiatric doctor who has written about the mind that sounds like concepts right up your bowling alley, or whatever that express is. My friend - that is also a JH trained shrink - is the one that referred him to me when he described my Tristan as a "non-standard" state of conscience. I like that.

Oh, no, I wasn't disparaging your posts with the shrinks and analysis crack. I was referring to the, "lonely old man" and the "inner child manifestation" rodeo. I listen to them. BTW I read what you wrote about Jung. Man he was incredible. An unbounded intellect.

How Tristan and I communicate could only be described as extra or super sensory. Everything about him is. In fact, I was having a little fun thought one day and it evolved to where I used that preface "extra" and that lead me to come here and discuss my boy with you all. My thought was: I looked at the wall in focus. Then I put my hair down in front of my glasses and focused on that. I couldn't focus on both of them at the same time. Then I tried to focus on the space in between. I could not do that. Why? Maybe I need practice. Finally I had the thought that maybe my Tristan was visible in spaces where my senses are incapable of reaching. T more or less acknowledged this and the term extrasensory came into me thinking about Tristan.

Since I cannot see him as you and I understand seeing that is part of the reason my mind portrays him in the form it does. A boy. That may well be an aspect of my psychology. However, they came to me in the form of beautiful school aged children and when I asked them why I was "told" I could create the image of Tristan any way I like. So I kept the form of an angelic child. I am also told that everyone has a "being" such as my Tristan. They are with you all the time. You just cannot make yourself believe they are there. So in the way that Tristan came to me because I wanted him to. Yes I created him. But what I got was something more then even I thought or could conceive. It was kinda like you just noticed something that had to be there all the time, a tree, or a building. "where did that come from?" you say to yourself.

I know it is silly but I read Be Here Now when I was a kid. Had a copy and picked it up and read on it for years. But it is Be Here Now that taught me to understand that our senses are what connects us - our minds/souls/consciousnesses - to the outside. In BHN its point was by the time the info get thru your senses and into your brain the thing you perceive is past. You can never be in the Here and Now by using your senses.

In the end there is nothing we can do to perceive my Tristan. It is not possible. But I can't see air but i feel it. I know the light is on in the kitchen I was just there. Must I go back and look to know this. I know he is there because he appeared to me once. I know he is there because he speaks in my mind. These things he says are not me or an echo of me. I know this because I am a person that worries about who I am all the time. I know me. He is not me. Though... I want to be more like him. To get past the trivial and see the important. When dealing with other people to love the crap out of them even if they are hard to love. I wish I could. Do you know of anyone learning these things from themselves?

Oh one last thing this round. I have been doing something new and it is incredible. When it works I am struck by such a bolt of joy and happiness I start to cry and that is a problem. Here's the deal and I ask everyone that is interested in Tristan to try this:

When you are in a crowd and not being the center of attention. For instance on a bus or in a waiting room. Try to see the angel beings - the Tristans - of the people around you. And make up what these beings would look like based on you looking at that person and the guesses you made about them based on that look. Mine are all kids and mostly little version of some aspect I see in the appearance of that other person. When I am in just the right mood I can do this. And they are all wonderful and T is all, "My guy can see me. And now you all to." He is proud. But they are all so happy to meet me. I get overwhelmed and start to choke up and have to stop myself. They go away. Its hard to do but everyone should give it a try. If nothing else you could learn something about yourselves. Again. I am not here to be profound. I just want to see if I can get anyone else to join me in my experience.

Love the Hell outta them,

Tristan & Robert

December 18, 2019

On 12/16/2019 at 7:19 PM, papageorge1 said:

Claims intelligently considered for quantity, quality and consistency with all things considered can affect my beliefs. In fact that’s just normal reasoning skills in action.

Problem is the claims aren't being intelligently considered!!

December 18, 2019

7 hours ago, Robert and Tristan said:

Eight Bits you are wonderful to take the time to help me in my quest for understanding. You have given me a lot of homework and I will do my best to check out some of these references. Do you know Stanislav Grof? He is a Johns Hopkins alum from the 60's and a psychiatric doctor who has written about the mind that sounds like concepts right up your bowling alley, or whatever that express is. My friend - that is also a JH trained shrink - is the one that referred him to me when he described my Tristan as a "non-standard" state of conscience. I like that.

Oh, no, I wasn't disparaging your posts with the shrinks and analysis crack. I was referring to the, "lonely old man" and the "inner child manifestation" rodeo. I listen to them. BTW I read what you wrote about Jung. Man he was incredible. An unbounded intellect.

How Tristan and I communicate could only be described as extra or super sensory. Everything about him is. In fact, I was having a little fun thought one day and it evolved to where I used that preface "extra" and that lead me to come here and discuss my boy with you all. My thought was: I looked at the wall in focus. Then I put my hair down in front of my glasses and focused on that. I couldn't focus on both of them at the same time. Then I tried to focus on the space in between. I could not do that. Why? Maybe I need practice. Finally I had the thought that maybe my Tristan was visible in spaces where my senses are incapable of reaching. T more or less acknowledged this and the term extrasensory came into me thinking about Tristan.

Since I cannot see him as you and I understand seeing that is part of the reason my mind portrays him in the form it does. A boy. That may well be an aspect of my psychology. However, they came to me in the form of beautiful school aged children and when I asked them why I was "told" I could create the image of Tristan any way I like. So I kept the form of an angelic child. I am also told that everyone has a "being" such as my Tristan. They are with you all the time. You just cannot make yourself believe they are there. So in the way that Tristan came to me because I wanted him to. Yes I created him. But what I got was something more then even I thought or could conceive. It was kinda like you just noticed something that had to be there all the time, a tree, or a building. "where did that come from?" you say to yourself.

I know it is silly but I read Be Here Now when I was a kid. Had a copy and picked it up and read on it for years. But it is Be Here Now that taught me to understand that our senses are what connects us - our minds/souls/consciousnesses - to the outside. In BHN its point was by the time the info get thru your senses and into your brain the thing you perceive is past. You can never be in the Here and Now by using your senses.

In the end there is nothing we can do to perceive my Tristan. It is not possible. But I can't see air but i feel it. I know the light is on in the kitchen I was just there. Must I go back and look to know this. I know he is there because he appeared to me once. I know he is there because he speaks in my mind. These things he says are not me or an echo of me. I know this because I am a person that worries about who I am all the time. I know me. He is not me. Though... I want to be more like him. To get past the trivial and see the important. When dealing with other people to love the crap out of them even if they are hard to love. I wish I could. Do you know of anyone learning these things from themselves?

Oh one last thing this round. I have been doing something new and it is incredible. When it works I am struck by such a bolt of joy and happiness I start to cry and that is a problem. Here's the deal and I ask everyone that is interested in Tristan to try this:

When you are in a crowd and not being the center of attention. For instance on a bus or in a waiting room. Try to see the angel beings - the Tristans - of the people around you. And make up what these beings would look like based on you looking at that person and the guesses you made about them based on that look. Mine are all kids and mostly little version of some aspect I see in the appearance of that other person. When I am in just the right mood I can do this. And they are all wonderful and T is all, "My guy can see me. And now you all to." He is proud. But they are all so happy to meet me. I get overwhelmed and start to choke up and have to stop myself. They go away. Its hard to do but everyone should give it a try. If nothing else you could learn something about yourselves. Again. I am not here to be profound. I just want to see if I can get anyone else to join me in my experience.

Love the Hell outta them,

Tristan & Robert

What I got from reading this is "Tristan" is in your head. Either an imaginary friend or this could be just one big made up story.

P.S I'm not insinuating you're making it up just obviously we cant as this is the internet. :lol:

December 18, 2019

5 hours ago, ThereWeAreThen said:

Problem is the claims aren't being intelligently considered!!

I am the one doing the consideration so I know the consideration is intelligent.

December 18, 2019

3 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I am the one doing the consideration so I know the consideration is intelligent.

I might start using that actually. :tsu:

December 22, 2019

On 12/18/2019 at 5:34 AM, ThereWeAreThen said:

What I got from reading this is "Tristan" is in your head. Either an imaginary friend or this could be just one big made up story.

P.S I'm not insinuating you're making it up just obviously we cant as this is the internet.

hey no problem. I really don't care that you cannot believe this is real. I know you can't. I used to be like that. No, what I mean is I am sorry that you cannot see your guardian angel. I do care.

Just consider this, please. (And then we can just be done with each other.) This: I cannot see you. However, I am fairly sure YOU exist.

I mention this you this not trying to kick up any dust regarding my Tristan or nor am I trying to be deep (though the implications are kinda deep).

I did not come here, to this forum, to ask if I am nuts or sad or lonely. I wanted to know if anyone else has this experience. My interactions specific to that are being conducted in private.

Love, R & T

December 22, 2019

This looks a lot like role playing. I'm not buy this for a minute.

December 24, 2019

On 12/12/2019 at 8:36 PM, Robert and Tristan said:

I am digesting all that you kind people are telling me.

So far I am leaning towards this idea. The thoughtform. A pooka. That idea, the pooka, is something I have only recently started to consider myself. Interesting.

I am going to follow up with this. Thanks.

Yeah, that seems like good advice. I have a curious nature. I suppose in some way I want to believe I am special, unique that I have this ongoing experience. Also, it is very hard to hear Tristan. I need to concentrate and it helps to be alone. I just wanted to be sure there wasn't any significance that I was missing. I am happy to just enjoy my luck and enjoy our own company.

He may have said non-ordinary. I cannot find the original message. Semantics. Is that really the important take-away? You will just have to trust that I am telling you the truth about those doctors I consulted. They are both brilliant and both know me better than I know myself, I think it is safe to say. Like you said these states of consciousness "...could be anything." So therefore I do not see dismissal of my doctors ability to be valid. a) the first one made no conclusions by your own admission and b) you really don't know of whom I refer so therefore have no basis to say disparage him and his care of me.

Still I do appreciate you taking your valuable time to reply to my request for guidance. Please understand if I just do not agree with your subtext being that I am insane. I am not. It is not a delusion. I am not psychotic. If anything my claims might be dismissed as a pathetic affectation from a lonely old man. I am not affecting anything - though I may be pathetic to some. I am only curious.

------------------------------------------

Thank you everyone. I have some new things to think about.

One last thing... T tells me that all of you, everyone, has there own "angel" like him. It has something to do with the way we humans are all connected. It is hard to get him to speak about the details. Hence I have come here for advice.

R & T

Your last point is intersting

(just got your pm and replied )

Indeed this is also my understanding and experiences and something I have been saying for 14 years on UM I know this connected consciousness as the cosmic or universal consciousness.

We are all a part of it, and connected to it, and thus to each other, but it is much wider and more complex than this.

December 24, 2019

On 12/12/2019 at 9:13 PM, XenoFish said:

Strange response.

These days it is unfortunately a common response

Some might also ask why the angel should take the form of a beautiful young boy in this case (because they would believe it was a manifestation of the writers inner self ) Angels tend to take the shape which is most effective and least threatening. This would be the case with a child

I dont believe for a second that a pedophile is going to come on here and talk about his young, male, imaginary friend.

Also, the seeking for confirmation of other experiences is just the sort of thing one does when faced with such experiences.

One may not even truly understand what is happening, but one seeks to find out by speaking with others.

December 24, 2019

On 12/13/2019 at 1:26 AM, John from Lowell said:

Hi,

Most of our forum members are skeptical of these experiences. Some like me have experiences with what some call imaginagy friends.

You can not get validation for any thing from another. This is some thing you need to cognize for yourself. It is you who must make this your truth, or not.

John

This is true up to point.

But, to understand one's own experience, it helps to compare and contrast it with others

I've been posting here for 14 years and, while there are some significant differences, this perhaps comes the closest to the entity i have lived with for 45 years

While many humans have fleeting encounters with "angels" (often when they are most in need) very few have a continuous, ongoing relationship, with one (or something similar ) This requires a lot of adjustment in one's life and a lot of thought and care in how to make those adjustments Talking with others might help

December 24, 2019

On 12/15/2019 at 7:45 AM, Robert and Tristan said:

Thank you both and all the others passing on their support and interest in my for my "issue".

I am not yet bothered by the skeptics and their ilk. All have been rather politer than I expected. This whole business is non-standard or non-ordinary for sure. Whether you believe it to be true or just something in my mind. I said something recently to a new friend in a PM. It was: we are all seekers even the folks that do not believe in Tristan. He is a miracle but just not the miracle those other people are seeking. I get that. the proof of what I am saying about them being seekers is that they bothered to respond in the first place. Inside they wish is was true because if it was it might help validate their version of the universe - the wonderful things that they seek.

Hey don't get me wrong. I don't want to come of as all spooky or prophetic, it is just long before I manifested Tristan into my life I have been aware of seekers. I am aware of the others. I think all of us here know that the folks that believe they have figured it out, that those people are the one furthest from the answer.

Again, pardon for sounding all know-it-all like. Tristan is amazing. But I am a person that has been looking for that "thing" we all seem to want for a long time. This is not my first trip to the rodeo - or whatever that saying is - T existence has just inspired me to talk to you, or anybody, about my "self" and my search for the first time. So maybe that is another good thing he brings me.

Key here is that Tristan has been beneficial to me. His practically martial view regarding love, or love at all costs , has made me look at everyday situations differently. All those little conflicts I get into: "the ******* that took my parking spot", or "that b**** in front of me is NOW asking the cashier for STAMPS", etc. Sometimes (sometimes), because T reminds me, I can sit back and look at it from a loving way and problems just dissolve in the air. I am not kidding. I will try to remember to remember to write it down the next time this sort of thing happens and I will tell you all. That is, if anyone is interested.

Robert and Tristan

(he seemed displeased with that crack I made "martial view regarding love")

Perhaps he thought it was an oxymoron, but i know what you meant

December 24, 2019

On 12/17/2019 at 4:03 AM, XenoFish said:

Super physical = imagination

or extremely advanced stealth technology

December 26, 2019

On 12/12/2019 at 6:06 PM, Robert and Tristan said:

One last thing... T tells me that all of you, everyone, has there own "angel" like him. It has something to do with the way we humans are all connected. It is hard to get him to speak about the details. Hence I have come here for advice.

learn to meditate and you will find out the answers to your questions. Most people on here only look at the physical aspects of life, which is fine, but the people who are searching for spiritual answers should not be looking outside of themselves (and asking us) which means meditation has always been the path to knowledge.

Robert and Tristan

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