S. A. ancient cities.

[Ain'tGottaClue]

Some of the ancient South American cities are said to be 8,000 years old, or older.  Is there any factual evidence in support of this claim, or is it just pure speculation?  How are the cities dated?

[ShadowSot]

Could you give some examples of the sites you're talking about? 

Generally dating is done a few different ways. Writing is present can help. If you have the name of a particular ruler associated with the site, for example, that can help you pin down a date. 

 Of course there's carbon dating of organic materials. Luminescent dating. 

 Relative dating if you can firmly date certain materials to a particular time period. Say you know a volcano erupted at a certain date. If a site or object is located under a layer of volcanic ash that came from that eruption you know it came before. 

 Or you find a penny under the foundation of a house, you know it was built after that date. 

 There are definitely those more familiar with American archaeology, but checking I don't see any cities that have been dated that far back.

 The furthest actual settlements go back 5 to 6 Thousand,but thats only a quick search. 

[Piney]

8 hours ago, Ain'tGottaClue said:

Some of the ancient South American cities are said to be 8,000 years old, or older.

This is new to me. Toss us some examples.  

[Hanslune]

He may be referring to this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_culture_(archaeology)

 

Quote

The Las Vegas culture is the name given to many Holocene settlements which flourished between 8000 BCE and 4600 BCE.(10,000 to 6,600 BP) near the coast of present-day Ecuador. The name comes from the location of the most prominent settlement, Site No. 80, near the Las Vegas River and now within the city of Santa Elena. The Las Vegas culture represents "an early, sedentary adjustment to an ecologically complex coastal environment."

The Las Vegas culture is important because it was one of the earliest cultures in South America to practice agriculture.

However they didn't have cities just settlements/habitations/'villages'.

https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/las-vegas-culture-0011067

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/american-antiquity/article/preceramic-las-vegas-culture-of-coastal-ecuador/D01B82488EBC6DB74BB5A2E5199C9F5B

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Hanslune

[Piney]

44 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

"an early, sedentary adjustment to an ecologically complex coastal environment."

Like the Archaic People of Florida. 

*Pickins is good peoples! We is goin nowhere!* 

[Ain'tGottaClue]

Examples:  It is unclear if some of these are just village settlements or actual cities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Verde

https://www.mnn.com/lifestyle/arts-culture/photos/14-once-great-lost-cities/machu-picchu#top-desktop

https://www.mnn.com/lifestyle/arts-culture/photos/14-once-great-lost-cities/caral#top-desktop

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_culture_(archaeology)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huaca_Prieta

[Kenemet]

30 minutes ago, Ain'tGottaClue said:

Examples:  It is unclear if some of these are just village settlements or actual cities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Verde

https://www.mnn.com/lifestyle/arts-culture/photos/14-once-great-lost-cities/machu-picchu#top-desktop

https://www.mnn.com/lifestyle/arts-culture/photos/14-once-great-lost-cities/caral#top-desktop

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_culture_(archaeology)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huaca_Prieta

Those aren't cities, though they are settlements and cultures.

In general, cities are very large and have well-defined areas for different activities such as government, marketplace, public space, sanitation and the people there have a structured society with trades and craftsmen (in a village, almost everyone would make their own bread, grow their own food, make their own pots... in a city, you would have people who were weavers for a living, bakers, potters, and almost no one would grow their own food or farm the land.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City

There are many settlements and cultures much older than 8,000 years BP (before present) but they aren't cities.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Kenemet

[Piney]

26 minutes ago, Ain'tGottaClue said:

https://www.mnn.com/lifestyle/arts-culture/photos/14-once-great-lost-cities/machu-picchu#top-desktop

That was built in the mid 1400s.

30 minutes ago, Ain'tGottaClue said:

https://www.mnn.com/lifestyle/arts-culture/photos/14-once-great-lost-cities/caral#top-desktop

That was built about 2000 BC.

[Piney]

31 minutes ago, Ain'tGottaClue said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huaca_Prieta

That's just a coastal settlement with a big ash mound.

32 minutes ago, Ain'tGottaClue said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Verde

That's just a small settlement.

32 minutes ago, Ain'tGottaClue said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_culture_(archaeology)

This was already discussed by Hans Loony. 

[Harte]

6 hours ago, Hanslune said:

He may be referring to this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_culture_(archaeology)

 

However they didn't have cities just settlements/habitations/'villages'.

https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/las-vegas-culture-0011067

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/american-antiquity/article/preceramic-las-vegas-culture-of-coastal-ecuador/D01B82488EBC6DB74BB5A2E5199C9F5B

 

It's widely known that the Las Vegas Culture never had cities because every time they almost had enough capital, they gambled it all away.

Harte

[Piney]

35 minutes ago, Harte said:

It's widely known that the Las Vegas Culture never had cities because every time they almost had enough capital, they gambled it all away.

I thought it was because every time Wayne Newton sang, people moved away.

[Harte]

11 hours ago, Piney said:

I thought it was because every time Wayne Newton sang, people moved away.

Harte

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Harte said:

Harte

You had to do that didn't you. 

That clown was one of the nastiest owners at the Scottsdale Arabian Horse Show. 

[Harte]

Really sappy song too.

Harte

[Piney]

3 minutes ago, Harte said:

Really sappy song too.

Your evil!!!! Pure evil!!!! 

[Jarocal]

On 12/13/2019 at 2:30 PM, Kenemet said:

Those aren't cities, though they are settlements and cultures.

In general, cities are very large and have well-defined areas for different activities such as government, marketplace, public space, sanitation and the people there have a structured society with trades and craftsmen (in a village, almost everyone would make their own bread, grow their own food, make their own pots... in a city, you would have people who were weavers for a living, bakers, potters, and almost no one would grow their own food or farm the land.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City

There are many settlements and cultures much older than 8,000 years BP (before present) but they aren't cities.

Tlapacoya, Aspero, and Caral are probably the oldest that would come closest to being defined a "city" though with all having a population under 10k inhabitantants at apex would still just be considered a town or village by most people.

Quito, Cusco, and Cahokia are in my opinion the oldest urban municipal centers that achieved the population densities to be considered true cities. Teotihuacan in MesoAmerican cultures also but Hanslune is more familiar with their timeline/population levels there and could better answer for the civilizations which arose in that region.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Jarocal