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and then

Bloomberg buys 2A restrictions in VA

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and then

https://www.washingtonpost.com/

Michael Bloomberg spent a couple of million in a Virginia election and got himself a unified Blue government that IMMEDIATELY set to work passing severely restrictive gun laws.  A movement has sprung up and is thriving all over the state.  More counties are joining every day.  2A Sanctuary, thank you!  Virginians are basically telling the Guvnah and his minions they need to tread very carefully.  These new restrictions actually refuse any grandfathering of weapons currently in the hands of citizens so this is about confiscation now.  They've been warned and one the Legislators threatened to mobilize the Guard to enforce the confiscations.  

The Left has lost its collective mind and the price is going to eventually be dear.

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Farmer77
2 minutes ago, and then said:

The Left has lost its collective mind and the price is going to eventually be dear.

Sadly I think we're reaching a point where folks are gonna do the math and decide that price is a better one than the one we're already paying. 

That's why 2A advocates desperately need to start thinking outside the box in order to save it. The same ole same ole isn't gonna keep working. 

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The Eternal Flame

:st im lost i dont understand the post?

Edited by The Eternal Flame
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and then
18 minutes ago, The Eternal Flame said:

:st im lost i dont understand the post?

Hi Eternal Flame.  I'm a very serious gun rights advocate.  I believe 2A (the Second Amendment) is extremely important for the preservation of America's freedoms.  The thread is for discussing the change in gun laws in the state of Virginia because a newly elected Democrat majority now controls ALL of the power there and the Governor, Ralph Northam is rapidly pushing to cripple the gun rights of average Virginians.  I've been hearing about this trend in other states, where urban residents far outnumber those in the rural parts of the state and usually these city dwellers tend to vote Democrat where those out in the rural spots vote Republican.  

The bottom line is that geographically, most of the residents are strong supporters of 2A and they are joining together to build a resistance against these gun grabs by using the concept of "Sanctuary" that Dems have been using as an excuse to ignore or nullify Federal iMMIGRATION LAWS :)   A growing number of county Sheriffs in Virginia are making their stance clear.  They will REFUSE to enforce gun laws that are inherently unConstitutional.  

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Agent0range
1 hour ago, and then said:

Hi Eternal Flame.  I'm a very serious gun rights advocate.  I believe 2A (the Second Amendment) is extremely important for the preservation of America's freedoms.  The thread is for discussing the change in gun laws in the state of Virginia because a newly elected Democrat majority now controls ALL of the power there and the Governor, Ralph Northam is rapidly pushing to cripple the gun rights of average Virginians.  I've been hearing about this trend in other states, where urban residents far outnumber those in the rural parts of the state and usually these city dwellers tend to vote Democrat where those out in the rural spots vote Republican.  

The bottom line is that geographically, most of the residents are strong supporters of 2A and they are joining together to build a resistance against these gun grabs by using the concept of "Sanctuary" that Dems have been using as an excuse to ignore or nullify Federal iMMIGRATION LAWS :)   A growing number of county Sheriffs in Virginia are making their stance clear.  They will REFUSE to enforce gun laws that are inherently unConstitutional.  

Do you have any sources for any of your information?  I've been hearing.  Some people are saying.  Post some proposed legislation to back up your claims.  Or posts from the sheriffs.  Sorry, I don't trust your word at all, especially considering your link isn't to an actual article, but to the WaPo main web page.  

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KingTomis

'The law is the law': Virginia Democrats float prosecution, National Guard deployment if police don't enforce gun control

Quote

Democratic lawmakers on Capitol Hill say local police who do not enforce gun control measures likely to pass in Virginia should face prosecution and even threats of the National Guard.

After November's Virginia Legislature elections that led to Democrats taking control of both chambers, the gun control legislation proposed by some Democrats moved forward, including universal background checks, an “assault weapons” ban, and a red flag law.

Legal firearm owners in the state, however, joined with their sheriffs to form Second Amendment sanctuary counties, which declare the authorities in these municipalities uphold the Second Amendment in the face of any gun control measure passed by Richmond.

Over 75 counties in Virginia have so far adopted such Second Amendment sanctuary resolutions in the commonwealth, the latest being Spotsylvania County. The board of supervisors voted unanimously to approve a resolution declaring that county police will not enforce state-level gun laws that violate Second Amendment rights.

Last I saw it was up to 84 counties joining in on 2nd Amendment sanctuaries.  That's out of I think 95 total Virginia counties.  It's almost like the insane Gov is trying to make sure Virginia never goes blue again.

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Farmer77
4 minutes ago, KingTomis said:

Last I saw it was up to 84 counties joining in on 2nd Amendment sanctuaries. 

Yeah but what does that really mean? Out west the municipalities becoming 2nd amendment sanctuaries are just locales where they wont hassle gun owners from other states or municipalities.

What does the verbiage in the actual statutes making them sanctuaries say?

Edited by Farmer77

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Manwon Lender
4 hours ago, and then said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/

Michael Bloomberg spent a couple of million in a Virginia election and got himself a unified Blue government that IMMEDIATELY set to work passing severely restrictive gun laws.  A movement has sprung up and is thriving all over the state.  More counties are joining every day.  2A Sanctuary, thank you!  Virginians are basically telling the Guvnah and his minions they need to tread very carefully.  These new restrictions actually refuse any grandfathering of weapons currently in the hands of citizens so this is about confiscation now.  They've been warned and one the Legislators threatened to mobilize the Guard to enforce the confiscations.  

The Left has lost its collective mind and the price is going to eventually be dear.

On this subject we can totally agree,  someone has lost their freaking mind. Let's hope it's a cancer that will not spread any farther than it already has.

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Gunn
4 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Sadly I think we're reaching a point where folks are gonna do the math and decide that price is a better one than the one we're already paying. 

That's why 2A advocates desperately need to start thinking outside the box in order to save it. The same ole same ole isn't gonna keep working. 

One of the things I'd fear/hate to see is several incidents like Waco,Texas start to happen again. As we've seen in the past, people tend to hide in a compound somewhere with their families with other families and then the terrible consequences begins. People don't want to see that either because lives are lost, especially innocent lives, and that starts a chain reaction with all kinds of people across the country. I don't think that kind of price is worth it either. And we all know too well (as history shows) a bunch of people will try it, sacrificing their own families. Who do you think the nation's citizens is going to blame for that when it happens too many times and the price becomes higher?

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Farmer77
Just now, Gunn said:

Who do you think the nation's citizens is going to blame for that when it happens too many times and the price becomes higher?

Honestly man I think theyre going to blame the ones breaking the law. I think in an urban and suburbanized society where the vast majority have never had to use a gun as a tool it will be a tough sell to say the ones killing law enforcement along with their own families are the good guys.

Especially if the "right" mass shooting happens. I fear we've reached the point where, God forbid ,  if a Dora the Explorer live play or something similar gets shot up the reaction will be swift and post 9/11 like from the majority.

 

 

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Manwon Lender
53 minutes ago, Gunn said:

One of the things I'd fear/hate to see is several incidents like Waco,Texas start to happen again. As we've seen in the past, people tend to hide in a compound somewhere with their families with other families and then the terrible consequences begins. People don't want to see that either because lives are lost, especially innocent lives, and that starts a chain reaction with all kinds of people across the country. I don't think that kind of price is worth it either. And we all know too well (as history shows) a bunch of people will try it, sacrificing their own families. Who do you think the nation's citizens is going to blame for that when it happens too many times and the price becomes higher?

I am sorry but people who would sacrifice their families to prove a point are not right in the head in the first place. I can see putting your own ass on the line for principles you truly believe in. But in my opinion if some one brings their family into a situation like that, they are cowards, for me it's no different than a terrorist using innocent people for human shields.

However, I can't even imagine how someone who truly loves their family could consider putting them in the line of fire. Fir me that isn't love in any way, any shape, or any form.

I think the Nation should see it for it is, a sick individual who has lost what ever sense of humanity he ever had, not a loving husband and father.

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Gunn
16 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Honestly man I think theyre going to blame the ones breaking the law. I think in an urban and suburbanized society where the vast majority have never had to use a gun as a tool it will be a tough sell to say the ones killing law enforcement along with their own families are the good guys.

Especially if the "right" mass shooting happens. I fear we've reached the point where, God forbid ,  if a Dora the Explorer live play or something similar gets shot up the reaction will be swift and post 9/11 like from the majority.

 

 

Yeah I agree, but it might be with only the first few incidents, but after that, when it starts happening too much - well, you've seen what happened after Waco *cough-McVeigh-cough*, more innocent (especially children's lives) lives were lost related to that tragedy . I'm telling ya man, some of these people are libel to do last ditch, desperate, crazy stuff. Some of them are all just waiting for it to begin.

Edited by Gunn
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Gunn
1 minute ago, Manwon Lender said:

I am sorry but people who would sacrifice their families to prove a point are not right in the head in the first place. I can see putting your own ass on the line for principles you truly believe in. But in my opinion if some one brings their family into a situation like that, they are cowards, for me it's no different than a terrorist using innocent people for human shields.

However, I can't even imagine how someone who truly loves their family could consider putting them in the line if fire. Fir me that isn't love in any way, any shape, or any form.

I think the Nation should see it for it is, a sick individual who has lost what ever sense of humanity he ever had, not a loving husband and father.

Oh I know, man. But that's the kind of people that are out there and they will do it when push comes to shove. Like I said, history has shown us all that it can happen. God forbid.

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Farmer77
10 minutes ago, Gunn said:

Yeah I agree, but it might be with only the first few incidents, but after that, when it starts happening too much - well, you've seen what happened after Waco *cough-McVeigh-cough*, more innocent (especially children's lives) lives were lost related to that tragedy . I'm telling ya man, some of these people are libel to do last ditch, desperate, crazy stuff. Some of them are all just waiting for it to begin.

Hopefully im wrong but if im honest deep down I think I feel like what youre talking about may have become inevitable at this point.

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Gunn
3 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Hopefully im wrong but if im honest deep down I think I feel like what youre talking about may have become inevitable at this point.

Well I hope you are to, Farmer77. But I fear it has become inevitable too and I fear it's liable to cause a domino effect. I guess every empire or country can only last for so long, before it destroys itself from within.

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and then
3 hours ago, Agent0range said:

Do you have any sources for any of your information?  I've been hearing.  Some people are saying.  Post some proposed legislation to back up your claims.  Or posts from the sheriffs.  Sorry, I don't trust your word at all, especially considering your link isn't to an actual article, but to the WaPo main web page.  

I did try to find the specific statute that was passed but all I kept bringing up was news of multiple counties in VA who were passing resolutions or executive orders by County Sheriffs who made it public that they would not enforce unconstitutional laws regardless who passed them.  The statute was described as more stringent and invasive than any other gun control law in the nation.  I will do my best to find the actual legislation.  My understanding is that this is not "proposed" legislation.  It has been rammed through and signed.

This is a summary of the package he wanted.  It's dated in January this year.  The videos I've seen speak of this legislation as a done deal.

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/01/virginias-democrat-governor-unveils-news-anti-gun-package-targeting-citizens-rights/

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and then

The Virginia AG is actually threatening enforcement on counties that have declared themselves 2A Sanctuaries.  He sounds tough but the reality is that just like the nullification of Federal immigration laws, States do not have the manpower to effectively enforce a law that locals are ignoring.  

The info on this legislation is confusing and I still haven't found a copy of the actual statute so it may be that these multiple county governments are moving preemptively to make their will known.

This conflict may well set the stage for a national dialogue.  The bottom line is that regardless an individual's beliefs or desires on stringent gun controls, NO unconstitutional law need be enforced or obeyed.  If this package is passed or has been passed I think the citizens in VA are ready to tell the Guvnah and his AG where they can stick it.  This AG is a smug sounding piece of work and if he thinks Americans in Cali or Oregon for example, can arbitrarily refuse to obey Federal immigration statutes and get a pass but a Democrat legislature and governor can pass laws that clearly violate the spirit of the second amendment to the Constitution and the citizens will be FORCED to comply?  I think this conflict was inevitable and Virginia may well prove to be a flashpoint and a rallying cry nationally.  This will not stand.

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Farmer77
21 minutes ago, and then said:

This AG is a smug sounding piece of work and if he thinks Americans in Cali or Oregon for example, can arbitrarily refuse to obey Federal immigration statutes and get a pass but a Democrat legislature and governor can pass laws that clearly violate the spirit of the second amendment to the Constitution and the citizens will be FORCED to comply?

Well youre kind of talking apples and oranges and in fact when discussing Oregon the sole reason for their "sanctuary" laws is they ended up violating the constitution while trying to do the feds job for them :

Quote

Oregon law prohibits the use of state and local resources to enforce federal immigration law if a person’s only crime is being in the country illegally. And it’s got nothing to do with President Donald Trump.

What many refer to as Oregon’s “sanctuary law” dates back 30 years – and, at the time of its implementation, it was not controversial.

The path toward becoming a sanctuary state began at the Hi Ho Restaurant in Independence, Oregon, early on Jan. 9, 1977, when several police officers approached four Chicano men.

Without showing a warrant or identifying themselves, Officer Janet Davidson and three Polk County sheriff’s deputies began interrogating the men about their citizenship status.

A deputy grabbed one of the men, Delmiro Trevino, by the arm and forced him to stand in the middle of the restaurant in front of other customers. Trevino, a U.S. citizen of Mexican descent, later filed what would become a class action lawsuit in which he said being publicly called out left him feeling humiliated.

He was only released after Davidson identified Trevino as a “long-time resident” of Independence.

A Lawsuit Becomes A Law

Rocky Barilla was the lawyer behind the lawsuit that grew out of the Hi Ho restaurant incident, and later the legislator behind the bill that made Oregon a “sanctuary state.”

“To be honest, this was not meant to be a sanctuary law,” he said. “It was meant to protect local city resources from using them to supplant federal spending.”

 

 

https://www.pulj.org/the-roundtable/do-sanctuary-cities-violate-the-law

Quote

Of course, this is all a total misunderstanding of what state and local governments do when they proclaim themselves to be sanctuaries. Rather than nullifying or violating federal law, what states and cities are doing is opting “not to use its resources to help federal agents identify, and deport, undocumented immigrants.” [5] These actions include a refusal to gather immigration-related data when police interact with local residents, as well as a refusal to detain undocumented people at the federal government’s request, with few exceptions. [5] Rather than a nullification or defiance of federal immigration law, these policies are about the allocation and prioritization of scarce public funds, as well as bolstering trust between residents and law enforcement. [6] These governments can put the collection of immigration data low on the list of priorities, and as long as they aren’t actively blocking information sharing with federal immigration authorities, the law is not violated. Instead, the result is that there is no information to be shared, which means there is nothing to be blocked.

In addition, while the federal government can require or prohibit certain acts, they cannot force state and local governments to require or prohibit the same acts or force them to enforce federal law. One of the most basic tenets of federalism and the Tenth Amendment is that the federal government cannot commandeer states and cities by compelling them to actively enforce federal laws at their own expense. [7]

 

Edited by Farmer77

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and then

These states have actively interfered with Federal Marshalls attempting to arrest illegals.  It happens and these states make no excuses for their actions.  They basically flipped Trump and the Feds the middle finger.  The exact same thing will happen when coercive, unconstitutional laws are passed in Blue states.  Folks come down on both sides of this one but man, I promise you that this attempt, regardless what state tries it, is going to be resisted.  The video I saw about what I thought was an actual statute that had been passed or was about to become law stated that not only are all long guns capable of holding ten rounds or more soon to be illegal but the rules were so vague that ANY weapon capable of semi-auto fire would be outlawed as an "assault" weapon.  The kicker is that if you own one you have to surrender it or sell it outside the state AND prove where it went.  That's the same as confiscation.  It's a 4th amendment violation as well as infringement of 2A.  Northam wants to strike while the iron is hot and he may well be headed for more trouble than he imagines.  He and his crew are overreaching.  He should ask Corbyn how that worked for him.

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and then
11 hours ago, Agent0range said:

Do you have any sources for any of your information?  I've been hearing.  Some people are saying.  Post some proposed legislation to back up your claims.  Or posts from the sheriffs.  Sorry, I don't trust your word at all, especially considering your link isn't to an actual article, but to the WaPo main web page.  

Okay, I finally found something other than one county after another going "mass gathering" for sanctuary status.  The reason for the confusion was that Norham had pushed for stronger controls earlier, failed and now that the D's have control, he is reintroducing even stronger measures in January.  Sorry for the confusion.  The actual bill:

http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?201+ful+SB16+hil

https://freebeacon.com/issues/virginia-dems-cave-on-confiscation-as-2a-sanctuaries-expand/ 

Trust as you  like.  When I see videos popping up like mushrooms, all on the same topic and with seriously angry rhetoric surrounding a gun grab in Virginia I think making an assumption that the law has already been passed is a reasonable one.  Apparently, this Bloomberg-purchased Blue Wave in Virginia gave Northam delusions of grandeur and the state rose up in a way that has caused him to start backtracking.

From the piece:

The Democrats' backtracking may indicate a trend in the gun debate in Virginia. Gun-control advocates poured millions of dollars into successfully flipping the state legislature, but the outpouring of opposition to their agenda, even in deep blue areas, may cause some new members of the state legislature to be cautious about backing gun control.

Note the "even in deep blue areas".  I think Northam and Bloomberg are getting a taste of reality where these kinds of overreaches are concerned.  When it comes to government at any level going against the clear desires of the majority, government will lose.  2A is not a Left/Right issue.  2A is an American rights issue.

 

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Manwon Lender
9 hours ago, and then said:

The Virginia AG is actually threatening enforcement on counties that have declared themselves 2A Sanctuaries.  He sounds tough but the reality is that just like the nullification of Federal immigration laws, States do not have the manpower to effectively enforce a law that locals are ignoring.  

The info on this legislation is confusing and I still haven't found a copy of the actual statute so it may be that these multiple county governments are moving preemptively to make their will known.

This conflict may well set the stage for a national dialogue.  The bottom line is that regardless an individual's beliefs or desires on stringent gun controls, NO unconstitutional law need be enforced or obeyed.  If this package is passed or has been passed I think the citizens in VA are ready to tell the Guvnah and his AG where they can stick it.  This AG is a smug sounding piece of work and if he thinks Americans in Cali or Oregon for example, can arbitrarily refuse to obey Federal immigration statutes and get a pass but a Democrat legislature and governor can pass laws that clearly violate the spirit of the second amendment to the Constitution and the citizens will be FORCED to comply?  I think this conflict was inevitable and Virginia may well prove to be a flashpoint and a rallying cry nationally.  This will not stand.

I certainly hope you are correct, that this will not stand. Because if it some how does and they enforce it, I can see the storm clouds building.

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Buzz_Light_Year

Well one way to keep the VA governor from using the National Guard is for Trump to federalize them.

Kinda of a fitting location for Civil War II to erupt in the same state Civil War I ended. It's doubtful that this will occur but one never knows.

I hope liberals are paying attention to the Democrats attempts to remove citizens Constitutional Rights in regards to the 2nd Amendment. If successful your other Constitutional Rights are in jeopardy.

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hacktorp

Gun Grabbers find themselves in a bit of a spot:

ELwl0okW4AAdNv1.jpg:large

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Buzz_Light_Year

New Jersey Town Becomes Sanctuary for Gun Rights

Quote

 

NJ.com reports that the township adopted a resolution stating it “opposes further interference with, or abridging of, the rights of lawful gun owners.”

The resolution makes West Milford a “Second Amendment/lawful gun owner sanctuary township.”

West Milford’s action comes after well over 60 counties and cities in Virginia have adopted Second Amendment Sanctuary status over the past few weeks. Rockingham County recently adopted sanctuary status with more than 3,000 residents in attendance at the county’s board of supervisors meeting.

 

Well now maybe this will catch on and spread.

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Tatetopa

From your reference, I read several laws are proposed (put in effect?)

Assault weapons ban

Red Flag law

Universal background checks

Requirements for keeping weapons safe in houses with children

Limit of one firearm purchase per month.

Are there more?

A lot of discussion has been floated about red flag laws.  How do we keep firearms out of the hands of crazies?  Or can we? Or should we?  

I am dubious that a limitation on number of firearms purchased per month can be linked to number of gun deaths, I suppose it targets groups stockpiling weapons.  

Universal background checks and elimination of the hunting loophole might have save the victims at PAS.  A more general question is do foreign nationals living working or studying in the US have the same rights as citizens to purchase and carry firearms?

Seems like a large part of it will come down to will the issue of  citizens trusting the government to enforce these laws justly and fairly or not. 

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