The Road to Brexit

[Silver]

26 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

Multiple choice wasn't it. Vote the wrong way, vote again. 

Democracy in action: first proposal rejected, amended ,amended proposal accepted. Here Farage is schooled on that very point:

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by ted hughes

[Ozymandias]

9 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

Multiple choice wasn't it. Vote the wrong way, vote again. 

You are not very bright, are you, Steve? What did you not understand the first time I explained it? Both times it was a simple yes or no choice. As a sovereign country in which the Irish people are sovereign we were initially presented with a Lisbon Treaty that we did not like and we rejected it by a narrow majority. Our government was just as taken aback as the EU were, but they renegotiated better terms for Ireland and we subsequently voted in favour of the newer, second version of the Lisbon Treaty.

This idea that Ireland was told to go back and vote the correct way a second time is a misrepresentation of the facts, a misrepresentation peddled by Brexiteers as part of their anti-EU and anti-Irish propaganda. The EU had to satisfy Ireland by amending the Lisbon treaty in a way that made it acceptable to the Irish people.

If ever there was an example of the EU not being some kind of a sinister entity trying to grab power and undermine the sovereignty of its member states this is it. Little old Ireland was able to tell the EU to come back with a better offer, and it did. And yet another example of the EU respecting the rights and needs of small countries is the way the EU stood in full solidarity with Ireland against the UK on the whole issue of Brexit.     

[Ozymandias]

19 minutes ago, ted hughes said:

Democracy in action: first proposal rejected, amended ,amended proposal accepted. Here Farage is schooled on that very point:

 

I see his price for being a mouth-piece for any old rubbish has now dropped to £65. 

[stevewinn]

Just now, Ozymandias said:

You are not very bright, are you, Steve? What did you not understand the first time I explained it? Both times it was a simple yes or no choice. As a sovereign country in which the Irish people are sovereign we were initially presented with a Lisbon Treaty that we did not like and we rejected it by a narrow majority. Our government was just as taken aback as the EU were, but they renegotiated better terms for Ireland and we subsequently voted in favour of the newer, second version of the Lisbon Treaty.

This idea that Ireland was told to go back and vote the correct way a second time is a misrepresentation of the facts, a misrepresentation peddled by Brexiteers as part of their anti-EU and anti-Irish propaganda. The EU had to satisfy Ireland by amending the Lisbon treaty in a way that made it acceptable to the Irish people.

If ever there was an example of the EU not being some kind of a sinister entity trying to grab power and undermine the sovereignty of its member states this is it. Little old Ireland was able to tell the EU to come back with a better offer, and it did. And yet another example of the EU respecting the rights and needs of small countries is the way the EU stood in full solidarity with Ireland against the UK on the whole issue of Brexit.     

It was all okay you voted the right way in the end. 

I remember when it was decided you all had to vote again, I was going to the Isle of Man for a day out, Liverpool Airport and the plane was covered in EU leaflets persuading people to vote the correct way. And it worked. Economy and jobs being threatened if a second No vote followed. The eejits got it right second time around. 

[Dreamer screamer]

15 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

It was all okay you voted the right way in the end. 

I remember when it was decided you all had to vote again, I was going to the Isle of Man for a day out, Liverpool Airport and the plane was covered in EU leaflets persuading people to vote the correct way. And it worked. Economy and jobs being threatened if a second No vote followed. The eejits got it right second time around. 

Are we back under the EEC rules?

[Ozymandias]

1 minute ago, stevewinn said:

It was all okay you voted the right way in the end. 

I remember when it was decided you all had to vote again, I was going to the Isle of Man for a day out, Liverpool Airport and the plane was covered in EU leaflets persuading people to vote the correct way. And it worked. Economy and jobs being threatened if a second No vote followed. The eejits got it right second time around. 

I remember it, too. To hold a referendum in Ireland the government is legally obliged to promote both the 'for' and the  'against' case of the argument equally, so there would have been an equal number of leaflets pushing the other sides view as well. The pros and cons on both sides were widely debated in Ireland. Any intelligent voter would have given both sides a thoughtful hearing.

I voted the Lisbon Treaty down the first time but was happy to vote for the amended version the second time round. The new clauses swung it for me and many others. The way you talk about the Lisbon Treaty and Ireland you would think the EU forced something on us that we did not want or was detrimental to our national wellbeing. Did we vote the right way in the end? Of course we did. You could equally ask, did the EU do right by us in the end. Of course they did! Look at us now. We are the EU's champions.

[Silver]

24 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

I see his price for being a mouth-piece for any old rubbish has now dropped to £65. 

I thought James O'Brian's depiction of him as being like a wino hanging around outside a pub at closing time, prepared to do some Morris dancing with a traffic cone on his head to amuse drunken patrons who might give him a tenner was savage, but apt!

He is just a failed politician, he stood for what, 7 or 11 times, on one occasion being beaten by a man dressed as a dolphin. 

He campaigned to rob us all of the freedom to work, live and retire on our own continent, but ironically he has also robbed himself of freedom of movement in the UK- he dare not show his face in the coastal communities he led down the garden path with regard to fishing.

Here's the New Yorker view of what Brexit has "won": Brexit’s Passport to Nowhere | The New Yorker

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by ted hughes

[Silver]

And talking about freedom of movement.......

 

Norfolk fruit farmer's concerns over harvesting workforce

Mr Turner said he currently had 11 workers but needed 62.

"We do not know how many workers we will get," he said.

"Before Brexit we were able to employ from Romania and Bulgaria, now we aren't unless they have a right to remain in the UK, therefore that labour source is cut off to us."

Norfolk fruit farmer's concerns over harvesting workforce - BBC News

Edited April 22, 2021 by ted hughes

[Silver]

And talking about fishing........

 

Leave-voting British fisherman speaks of Brexit regrets on Danish TV

A Leave-voting fisherman has spoken about his regret after voting for Brexit and said “life has become very difficult” since the UK has left the trading-bloc.

Ian Perkes, a fish exporter from Brixham, in Devon, told the Danish broadcaster DR that he was “lied to” about the implications of leaving the EU and it has increased costs for his business.

He said: “Do you think I would have voted to leave if I’d known it was going to cost me another £80,000 a year? Of course not. Only a fool would have voted to go out, wouldn’t he, knowing that.”

Leave-voting British fisherman speaks of Brexit regrets on Danish TV | The Independent

Edited April 22, 2021 by ted hughes

[stevewinn]

17 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

I remember it, too. To hold a referendum in Ireland the government is legally obliged to promote both the 'for' and the  'against' case of the argument equally, so there would have been an equal number of leaflets pushing the other sides view as well. The pros and cons on both sides were widely debated in Ireland. Any intelligent voter would have given both sides a thoughtful hearing.

I voted the Lisbon Treaty down the first time but was happy to vote for the amended version the second time round. The new clauses swung it for me and many others. The way you talk about the Lisbon Treaty and Ireland you would think the EU forced something on us that we did not want or was detrimental to our national wellbeing. Did we vote the right way in the end? Of course we did. You could equally ask, did the EU do right by us in the end. Of course they did! Look at us now. We are the EU's champions.

You must have been multitasking during them years as well.

[ThereWeAreThen]

5 hours ago, toast said:

Dont worry. Russia has always been a very reliable trading partner of Germany. There might be a dependency ratio but its bilateral because ca. 50% (IIRC) of Russia`s state income is provided by gas/oil exports to the EU so a delivery stop would hurt Russia much more than Germany and in a worst case scenario we could switch to supplies from Norway, USA, Katar and others.

Which is what I want! And Russia have announced they've pulled back troops from the Ukrainian border, wouldn't be surprised if the EU bought up what you just said.

[Ozymandias]

39 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

You must have been multitasking during them years as well.

What do you mean? I cannot see how this statement follows logically from what went before!

[Silver]

*****  business! said Johnson, and he wasn't joking:

 

Brexit has wiped £250,000 off our sales says UK exporter

The boss of a UK insulation manufacturer says Brexit has cost his business £250,000 - in just the first three months of the year.

William Bown, the managing director of SuperFOIL Insulation, said the decision to stop free trade with the EU had led to a huge drop in revenues compared to 2020.

He said the business was counting the cost of delays, disruption and increased shipping fees associated with the Government’s decision to “take back control”.

Before Brexit, the family-owned business sold around a fifth of its products to customers in Europe, much of it through Amazon.

Since January 1 EU sales have dropped to just 2.9 per cent of its total.

Brexit has wiped £250,000 off our sales says UK exporter - Business Live (business-live.co.uk)

Edited April 23, 2021 by ted hughes

[Duke Wellington]

8 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

What do you mean? I cannot see how this statement follows logically from what went before!

Now why doesnt that surprise me?

[Silver]

Australia sees the EU a "priority" when it eyes a trade deal in Europe (hardly surprising given the size of the EU market in Europe):

 

[Silver]

New tranche of Brexit red tape from April 21 will deep-freeze the UK's frozen food industry:

 

Food Businesses Brace For A New Wave Of Post-Brexit Paperwork Affecting Pizza, Pies And Sandwiches

The UK food industry is warning that a deluge of new post-Brexit red tape which comes into effect today will increase export paperwork by a third and make some sales to Europe unviable.

The European Union is today introducing a wave of new requirements for composite (multi-ingredient) food products entering the bloc from third countries like the UK.

This is on top of the myriad border checks that began on January 1 when the UK left the EU's Single Market and Customs Union and starting trading with the bloc on looser terms.

As of this morning, all chilled and frozen composite foods sent to EU customers must be accompanied by Export Health Certificates signed off by vets. Previously, only composite products that were 50% or more dairy content required vet-certified Export Heath Certificates. 

Food Businesses Brace For A New Wave Of Post-Brexit Paperwork Affecting Pizza, Pies And Sandwiches (politicshome.com)

Edited April 23, 2021 by ted hughes

[Silver]

Due to its greater size and economic power the EU is able to effortlessly undermine any deal the UK attempts to strike around the world. This was, of course, widely predicted:

 

UK’s Post-Brexit Mexican Trade Deal Left Obsolete

A £5 billion EU continuity trade deal with Mexico, hailed by Whitehall as an “Aztec Brexit Boost”, has become obsolete – after the EU signed a more generous and comprehensive deal between its 27 members states and Mexico.

The UK’s trade deal, which was meant to replicate the existing EU deal with Mexico, will now face stiff competition from EU countries, which have negotiated better terms to sell their manufactured goods and other products to Mexico. The enhanced EU-Mexico Agreement will remove many of the remaining customs duties, increase regulatory co-operation and lower non-tariff barriers for EU companies.

According to a new report from the House of Lords’ International Agreements Committee, the UK could now have to wait another three years to catch-up with the EU even if talks on a new agreement begin this year.  

UK’s Post-Brexit Mexican Trade Deal Left Obsolete – Byline Times

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by ted hughes

[Silver]

It's St George's Day! England's Patron Saint! ( And let no one remind us he was born in what is now Turkey and served in the Roman Army as that will make him seem a bit EU-ish).

Let's celebrate by listing all the benefits we have enjoyed since January 1st and are only possible because we left the EU! 

I'll start:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by ted hughes

[stevewinn]

 

 

[Silver]

Another instalment of Prof Chis Grey's blog Brexit and Beyond: Brexit & Beyond (chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com) 

Well worth a read, it is authoritative and objective as usual. (If BoJo the Clown wasn't our PM we would join the world in laughing at us):

 

Brexit limps on

We’re probably long past the closing date for nominations for the prize for most absurd and mendacious comment about Brexit, including the category reserved for those made by Boris Johnson. If not, a strong new entry would be his comment this week that he will get rid of the “ludicrous” checks on the Irish Sea border, and yet again threatening to invoke Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol (NIP) as he has been doing since at least 13 January (less than two weeks after it came into operation, and before, be it noted, the EU’s quickly abandoned plan to do so over vaccine shipments).

Ludicrous is a useful word here, since this is the border Johnson said he would never agree to, then agreed to, then said he hadn’t agreed to – all within the space of a few months. But beneath the latest bullish assertion is the rather different proposition that the issue is one of different “interpretations” of the NIP, and the need to “sandpaper” the border arrangements. This implies that, at least for now, the wilder demands from some Brexiters and unionists to ditch the NIP altogether are not going to be met.

Brexit & Beyond (chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com)

Edited April 23, 2021 by ted hughes

[itsnotoutthere]

17 hours ago, ted hughes said:

I thought James O'Brian's depiction of him as being like a wino hanging around outside a pub at closing time, prepared to do some Morris dancing with a traffic cone on his head to amuse drunken patrons who might give him a tenner was savage, but apt!

He is just a failed politician, he stood for what, 7 or 11 times, on one occasion being beaten by a man dressed as a dolphin. 

He campaigned to rob us all of the freedom to work, live and retire on our own continent, but ironically he has also robbed himself of freedom of movement in the UK- he dare not show his face in the coastal communities he led down the garden path with regard to fishing.

Here's the New Yorker view of what Brexit has "won": Brexit’s Passport to Nowhere | The New Yorker

 

Please, Britain, keep James O’Brien away from us

We in Ireland have enough sanctimonious spivs of our own without importing any of yours.

A polite request from Ireland to our dear friends in the UK – can you keep James O’Brien away from us?

The LBC broadcaster, who manages the quite remarkable feat of being jaw-droppingly bonkers and extremely boring at the same time (and they say men can’t multitask!), slithered on to Irish radio station Newstalk FM on Monday to tell us gullible Paddies some home truths.

Those of us on this side of the Irish Sea who pay attention to the British media are all too aware of O’Brien’s weird brand of dismissive smuggery, but he elevated that to a masterclass during his appearance as he sneered and whined his way through a rather untypically obsequious interview with Cuddihy.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/03/26/please-britain-keep-james-obrien-away-from-us/

[itsnotoutthere]

Project Fear is now dead and buried

Predictions that Brexit would be an economic disaster have turned out to be nonsense.

For years, we were bombarded with dire warnings that Brexit would lead to economic catastrophe.

 

In the run-up to the EU referendum, chancellor George Osborne claimed British families would be made £4,300 worse off by 2030 if the UK left the EU. Mark Carney, then governor of the Bank of England, supposedly an impartial voice, warned Brexit could lead to a recession. And many Remainers were totally adamant that businesses and jobs would move overseas in response to a Leave vote.

But as economist Wolfgang Münchau explains, apart from a very short disruption to trade, ‘Brexit has been a macroeconomic non-event’.

Recent data show that while UK exports to the EU fell by 42 per cent in January, they rose by 46.6 per cent in February. Imports are slightly lower than they were in December 2020, but they grew in February, too.

On top of this, as Münchau points out, current IMF projections show no clear impact from Brexit on economic growth more broadly. In fact, they suggest UK growth will be higher than the EU’s in the coming years.

 

But Project Fear’s fevered prophecies have, unsurprisingly, come to naught. As Münchau says, ‘The forecasts of unmitigated gloom… have been wrong and deceitful. When economists failed to predict the global financial crisis, they did not [do] so out of malice or political bias. But their Brexit forecasts were not an innocent mistake – nor will they be remembered as such.’

He’s right. We won’t forget how Project Fear was cynically used to trash Brexit – and we won’t stop celebrating the fact that voters refused to buy into it.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/04/19/project-fear-is-now-dead-and-buried/

[Ozymandias]

8 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

Now why doesnt that surprise me?

Sure, why would it? You know better than anyone what Steve is like.  

He still hasn't replied with a logical answer.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Ozymandias

[Ozymandias]

51 minutes ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Please, Britain, keep James O’Brien away from us

We in Ireland have enough sanctimonious spivs of our own without importing any of yours.

A polite request from Ireland to our dear friends in the UK – can you keep James O’Brien away from us?

The LBC broadcaster, who manages the quite remarkable feat of being jaw-droppingly bonkers and extremely boring at the same time (and they say men can’t multitask!), slithered on to Irish radio station Newstalk FM on Monday to tell us gullible Paddies some home truths.

Those of us on this side of the Irish Sea who pay attention to the British media are all too aware of O’Brien’s weird brand of dismissive smuggery, but he elevated that to a masterclass during his appearance as he sneered and whined his way through a rather untypically obsequious interview with Cuddihy.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/03/26/please-britain-keep-james-obrien-away-from-us/

This is an opinion piece by Ian Doherty, and he is entitled to it, but I would have to advise you that Ian Doherty does not speak for many people in Ireland. He is an avowed libertarian who is strong on opinion but weak on facts. He has been taken to task many times by the Press Ombudsman in Ireland for misleading, false and incendiary journalism scribblings. Shall we say, speaking objectively, that his professionalism leaves much to be desired.

[itsnotoutthere]

6 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

This is an opinion piece by Ian Doherty, and he is entitled to it, but I would have to advise you that Ian Doherty does not speak for many people in Ireland. He is an avowed libertarian who is strong on opinion but weak on facts. He has been taken to task many times by the Press Ombudsman in Ireland for misleading, false and incendiary journalism scribblings. Shall we say, speaking objectively, that his professionalism leaves much to be desired.

As is everything James O'Brien says. He is nothing more that an anti Brexit 'shock jock', yet another whining remoaner crying in his beer.

Edited April 23, 2021 by itsnotoutthere