The Road to Brexit

[hetrodoxly]

1 hour ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

and since then ...

Everything as been ok until the virus?

[hetrodoxly]

1 hour ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

have you seen any of his Daily Addresses to the nation about the corona crisis? It's either wild eyed panic, or he's acting wild eyed panic because he believes the nation isn't scared enough and they need alarming a bit more. 

You're seeing what you want it to be, he's been criticized for not taking it serious enough and you've obviously not been listening to other leaders, i listened to the Irish prime minister this evening and it was like the speech from 'Independence Day' or Churchills 'we'll fight them on the beaches'.  

[TigerBright19]

They said that Brexit would crash the market and create panic buying and a shortage of toilet paper.  How wrong they were.  

 

 

[stevewinn]

7 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

Now, now, Steve. There's no need to get emotional. You need to approach this objectively and with a fair mind. It's not rocket science:- 

Canada and Japan were never so economically connected to the EU as the UK has been over the last half century. Any divorce, free trade or future relationship agreement with the UK will have to be based on a balance of rights and obligations, and ensure a level playing field. Given the UK's geographic proximity and economic interdependence with the EU, the future relationship will only deliver in a mutually satisfactory way if it includes robust guarantees which ensure a level playing field. There are also large populations of EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU. Their present and future rights must be guaranteed. The aim should be to prevent unfair competitive advantage that the UK could enjoy through undercutting of levels of protection with respect to, inter alia, competition and state aid, tax, social, environment and regulatory measures and practices. 

This will require a combination of substantive rules aligned with EU and international standards, adequate mechanisms to ensure effective implementation domestically, enforcement and dispute settlement mechanisms in the agreement as well as EU autonomous remedies, that are all commensurate with the depth and breadth of the EU-UK economic connectedness.

 

So no then, you could have just answered with no.

Proves my point.

[Space Commander Travis]

10 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

You're seeing what you want it to be, he's been criticized for not taking it serious enough and you've obviously not been listening to other leaders, i listened to the Irish prime minister this evening and it was like the speech from 'Independence Day' or Churchills 'we'll fight them on the beaches'.  

Oh I agree there, look at Macron. To look at him you'd think France was in greater danger than in May 1940. 

[Duke Wellington]

15 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

Now, now, Steve. There's no need to get emotional. You need to approach this objectively and with a fair mind. It's not rocket science:- 

Canada and Japan were never so economically connected to the EU as the UK has been over the last half century. Any divorce, free trade or future relationship agreement with the UK will have to be based on a balance of rights and obligations, and ensure a level playing field. Given the UK's geographic proximity and economic interdependence with the EU, the future relationship will only deliver in a mutually satisfactory way if it includes robust guarantees which ensure a level playing field. There are also large populations of EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU. Their present and future rights must be guaranteed. The aim should be to prevent unfair competitive advantage that the UK could enjoy through undercutting of levels of protection with respect to, inter alia, competition and state aid, tax, social, environment and regulatory measures and practices. 

This will require a combination of substantive rules aligned with EU and international standards, adequate mechanisms to ensure effective implementation domestically, enforcement and dispute settlement mechanisms in the agreement as well as EU autonomous remedies, that are all commensurate with the depth and breadth of the EU-UK economic connectedness.

 

So what are you claiming today? Mmm... lets see. You are suggesting the UK has to enter into a totally one way relationship with the EU. I see you haven't changed much? lol.

If the EU wants to sell products and services in the UK, then it needs to comply with our rules. When it comes to the UK trading with other countries around the world then the EU can sod off, because its none of its business. The only legitimacy it has is in getting us to obey its standards with products being sold in its markets.

It does not dictate to us our laws on state aid, taxation, social policy, worker rights, or environmental measures. What goes on inside the UK is quite frankly none of its business. It can only legitimately get our companies to meet its consumer regulations to ensure our products being sold in their markets are up to standard. And no we shouldn't pay for any free trade agreement.

No where else in the world is one country required to make payments to another for access to a free trade zone. What is even more absurd, is that the EU sells more to the UK than vice versa. So if anybody should be paying fees its the EU.

WE ARE NOT A VASSAL OF THE EU!!!

The UK is not going to run around Ireland (what your posts are really about). We are going to act in our national interest not yours. If you dont like it then tough.

Edited March 18, 2020 by RabidMongoose

[Duke Wellington]

2 hours ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

Oh I agree there, look at Macron. To look at him you'd think France was in greater danger than in May 1940. 

Japan has discovered an already existing anti-viral medication is effective against Coronavirus. Once it filters through its over.

[stevewinn]

1 hour ago, RabidMongoose said:

Japan has discovered an already existing anti-viral medication is effective against Coronavirus. Once it filters through its over.

yes, cases or deaths in South Korea have diminished. likewise in china, china as closed its last Coronavirus hospital because the number of patients can now seen in regular hospitals. It seems the Chinese and S.Koreans are using an antimalarial drug, which the good news is its cheap and easy to manufacture. (seems to reduce systems and aid quicker recovery) 

[Ozymandias]

13 hours ago, stevewinn said:

So no then, you could have just answered with no.

No, no, no!! I could not.

13 hours ago, stevewinn said:

Proves my point.

You set the bar for proof extremely low.

[stevewinn]

1 minute ago, Ozymandias said:

No, no, no!! I could not.

You set the bar for proof extremely low.

and you obliged.

 

[Ozymandias]

5 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

So what are you claiming today? Mmm... lets see. You are suggesting the UK has to enter into a totally one way relationship with the EU. I see you haven't changed much? lol.

If the EU wants to sell products and services in the UK, then it needs to comply with our rules. When it comes to the UK trading with other countries around the world then the EU can sod off, because its none of its business. The only legitimacy it has is in getting us to obey its standards with products being sold in its markets.

It does not dictate to us our laws on state aid, taxation, social policy, worker rights, or environmental measures. What goes on inside the UK is quite frankly none of its business. It can only legitimately get our companies to meet its consumer regulations to ensure our products being sold in their markets are up to standard. And no we shouldn't pay for any free trade agreement.

No where else in the world is one country required to make payments to another for access to a free trade zone. What is even more absurd, is that the EU sells more to the UK than vice versa. So if anybody should be paying fees its the EU.

WE ARE NOT A VASSAL OF THE EU!!!

The UK is not going to run around Ireland (what your posts are really about). We are going to act in our national interest not yours. If you dont like it then tough.

You obviously cannot read. Nobody said you were a vassal of anything except maybe your own jingoistic nationalism.

[Ozymandias]

1 minute ago, stevewinn said:

and you obliged.

Sorry, I can't fathom your meaning here. Are you trying to make a joke at my expence? 

[L.A.T.1961]

4 hours ago, stevewinn said:

 It seems the Chinese and S.Koreans are using an antimalarial drug, which the good news is its cheap and easy to manufacture. (seems to reduce systems and aid quicker recovery) 

Time for a G&T. 

[Duke Wellington]

42 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

You obviously cannot read. Nobody said you were a vassal of anything except maybe your own jingoistic nationalism.

Alright, no need to be like that.

But please remember this is the UK and we will act in our national interest. We dont care about Ireland beyond making sure fair trade. That is certainly not what you were advocating.

[Ozymandias]

50 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

But please remember this is the UK and we will act in our national interest. We dont care about Ireland beyond making sure fair trade. That is certainly not what you were advocating.

Snap. Ireland and the EU act in their self-interest and don't care about the UK beyond making sure there's fair trade. 

I advocated what the EU is advocating - a level playing field.

[Duke Wellington]

16 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

Snap. Ireland and the EU act in their self-interest and don't care about the UK beyond making sure there's fair trade. 

I advocated what the EU is advocating - a level playing field.

Good, now you have readjusted your position so that you want fairness please stop posting replies that are anything but fairness.

[itsnotoutthere]

 

"Brexit will not be delayed by coronavirus, says Johnson"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/13/brexit-will-not-be-delayed-by-coronavirus-says-johnson

[Ozymandias]

24 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Good, now you have readjusted your position so that you want fairness please stop posting replies that are anything but fairness.

I haven't readjusted my position at all.

I didn't post anything that suggests unfairness.

I don't think you read my posts very carefully.

[Duke Wellington]

19 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

I haven't readjusted my position at all.

I didn't post anything that suggests unfairness.

I don't think you read my posts very carefully.

I quote `The aim should be to prevent unfair competitive advantage that the UK could enjoy through undercutting of levels of protection with respect to, inter alia, competition and state aid, tax, social, environment and regulatory measures and practices`

That is actually giving the EU an unfair competitive advantage. In fact I find what you wrote truly incredible. The suggestion the EU should force the UK to comply with its competition, state aid, tax, social, and environmental rules is not a free trade agreement at all. Thats membership of the EU without a vote.

We are leaving the EU. Gone, kaput, not coming back, or staying with one foot in.  Could you imagine the EU telling the US sure you can have a free trade agreement if you allow us to set your VAT. What truly incredible and astonishing nonsense is that? You have a track record of wanting the UK to remain in the UK, being unable to accept we are going, being unable to accept that we have gone, and you still exist in your mentality where you now desperately want to nullify Britain.

We will act in our best interests and if the EU doesnt like that then bye, bye! We should have just walked out 3 years ago and we would have a fair free trade agreement in place by now. Germany would have forced you in order to save its car manufacturing and engineering sectors.

How about the UK sets the EUs state aid rules, or taxation, and the other things you wrote? Turned around you can see just how nonsensical your suggestion is.

[Ozymandias]

2 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

I quote `The aim should be to prevent unfair competitive advantage that the UK could enjoy through undercutting of levels of protection with respect to, inter alia, competition and state aid, tax, social, environment and regulatory measures and practices`

I was quoting your own government's words. They are not my words at all. Your government endorsed them.

2 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

That is actually giving the EU an unfair competitive advantage. In fact I find what you wrote truly incredible. The suggestion the EU should force the UK to comply with its competition, state aid, tax, social, and environmental rules is not a free trade agreement at all. Thats membership of the EU without a vote.

The EU is not forcing the UK into anything. This is both parties agreed position.

2 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

We are leaving the EU. Gone, kaput, not coming back, or staying with one foot in.  Could you imagine the EU telling the US sure you can have a free trade agreement if you allow us to set your VAT. What truly incredible and astonishing nonsense is that?

The EU is not doing that. It does not have the power.

2 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

You have a track record of wanting the UK to remain in the UK, being unable to accept we are going, being unable to accept that we have gone, and you still exist in your mentality where you now desperately want to nullify Britain.

The UK is gone. I actually respect that, and good luck to you. The bit about nullifying Britain speaks volumes about your mental state.

2 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

How about the UK sets the EUs state aid rules, or taxation, and the other things you wrote? Turned around you can see just how nonsensical your suggestion is.

Not my suggestion but your government's.

[Ozymandias]

I see here that when people have no argument left, after their prejudice and ignorance has been exposed, all they do is laugh as if to pretend they are only having a bit of a fun.

So, I take it they have no further to say about the issues I raised. 

[Duke Wellington]

Just now, Ozymandias said:

I see here that when people have no argument left, after their prejudice and ignorance has been exposed, all they do is laugh as if to pretend they are only having a bit of a fun.

So, I take it they have no further to say about the issues I raised. 

There is nothing that can be done with someone living in a parallel universe except laugh.

[Ozymandias]

3 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

There is nothing that can be done with someone living in a parallel universe except laugh.

There is nothing parallel about my universe - it is the world of reality, objectivity and fact. You have taken me to task for quoting your own governments stated position on its future relationship with the EU!!!!! I will quote the relevant announcement in full for you again. Your government agreed that it

'… should in particular maintain a robust and comprehensive framework for competition and state aid control that prevents undue distortion of trade and competition; commit to the principles of good governance in the area of taxation and to the curbing of harmful tax practices; and maintain environmental, social and employment standards at the current high levels provided by the existing common standards. ... should rely on appropriate and relevant [EU] and international standards, and include appropriate mechanisms to ensure effective implementation domestically, enforcement and dispute settlement. The future relationship should also promote adherence to and effective implementation of relevant internationally agreed principles and rules in these domains, ...'.

That is what your government agreed as a basis for negotiating the future relationship between the EU and the UK, and your response is to say (I quote):

'What truly incredible and astonishing nonsense is that?'

 

Edited March 19, 2020 by Ozymandias

[stevewinn]

1 hour ago, Ozymandias said:

There is nothing parallel about my universe - it is the world of reality, objectivity and fact. You have taken me to task for quoting your own governments stated position on its future relationship with the EU!!!!! I will quote the relevant announcement in full for you again. Your government agreed that it

'… should in particular maintain a robust and comprehensive framework for competition and state aid control that prevents undue distortion of trade and competition; commit to the principles of good governance in the area of taxation and to the curbing of harmful tax practices; and maintain environmental, social and employment standards at the current high levels provided by the existing common standards. ... should rely on appropriate and relevant [EU] and international standards, and include appropriate mechanisms to ensure effective implementation domestically, enforcement and dispute settlement. The future relationship should also promote adherence to and effective implementation of relevant internationally agreed principles and rules in these domains, ...'.

That is what your government agreed as a basis for negotiating the future relationship between the EU and the UK, and your response is to say (I quote):

'What truly incredible and astonishing nonsense is that?'

 

Keep up, The UK is leaving and is not accepting any of what you quoted.

The EU terrified of the UK being competitive. says all we need to know about the EU, so much for it being the stronger party. only one party seeks to handicap the other

the quicker we distance ourselves the better.

talking of distancing ourselves -  Barnier tests positive for covid 19. the lengths they'll go to extend the 1st Jan 2021 deadline. stating trade talks.

The UK's response should be “We’ve got a trade deal, you just need to sign it”

 

 

Edited March 19, 2020 by stevewinn

[Duke Wellington]

36 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

Keep up, The UK is leaving and is not accepting any of what you quoted.

The EU terrified of the UK being competitive. says all we need to know about the EU, so much for it being the stronger party. only one party seeks to handicap the other

the quicker we distance ourselves the better.

talking of distancing ourselves -  Barnier tests positive for covid 19. the lengths they'll go to extend the 1st Jan 2021 deadline. stating trade talks.

The UK's response should be “We’ve got a trade deal, you just need to sign it”

Right now I`m creating in Paint a `dont get well soon from all us Brexiteers` card.

Now I have to figure out where to send it so it reaches him lol.

Edited March 19, 2020 by RabidMongoose