Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
bee

The Road to Brexit

1,132 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

RAyMO
4 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

Its not, The transition period the WA has no legs, the end date is December 2020. The UK will no longer be a EU member. how is that BRINO. its over.

BRINO requires Brexit. Therefore the first part is the approval of the the withdrawal agreement and is the BR part.

The INO part is that in order to get a 'deep comprehensive' trade deal in 1 year the UK will have to align very closely with the EU - that's the INO.

 

Edited by RAyMO
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
stevewinn
1 hour ago, RAyMO said:

BRINO requires Brexit. Therefore the first part is the approval of the the withdrawal agreement and is the BR part.

The INO part is that in order to get a 'deep comprehensive' trade deal in 1 year the UK will have to align very closely with the EU - that's the INO.

 

you are stating opinion your opinion. the reality, the fact is very different. We will no longer be a EU member, everything EU ceases. BRINO is dead. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RAyMO
4 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

you are stating opinion your opinion. the reality, the fact is very different. We will no longer be a EU member, everything EU ceases. BRINO is dead. 

 

 

You are missing the point of the post. I would prefer you get the hard brexit you want. 

I just don't think you will. 

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cookie Monster
1 hour ago, stevewinn said:

The Remainers still don't get it do they. If we arrive at the point of No deal Boris will lead us out, they still think where back to where we where two months ago whereby remain MPs where passing all sorts of laws stating we couldnt leave without a deal. Boris has now set a deadline on the negotiations. We leave the EU on the 31st January. we then give the EU till the 31st December 2020 to offer and convince us why its a good idea to sign a trade agreement with them. - as we've seen the EU are preparing to ask for the deadline to be extended beyond December 2020 up to December 2021. Why are they asking for an extension its because they aren't ready for the UK leaving. the EU is like the old soviet union it convinces its people its big, strong and powerful and then bang over night collapses and the people never seen it coming.

  • 31st January 2020 We leave. 
  • 31st December 2020 transition period ends, with or without a deal. (this will be set in law)

We also regain our independent seat at the WTO. 

We have only escaped the evil clutches of the 1st phase.

Now the EU will try to stop us leaving in the 2nd phase. I suspect we will never get the trade deal that we want until we leave via a Hard-Brexit. Only once we are outside will the EU genuinely be interested in a free trade agreement.

The first plan was to trap us in the 2nd phase using the lack of an exit clause. Now we have one they have corned NI and will use that to gain leverage over us and stop us leaving. And if we make the mistake of giving them NI then they will demand Scotland and Wales too.

The only way out is via a Hard-Brexit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Black Red Devil
8 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

Sorry i don't understand your post?

I'm assuming you meant the EU was worried you would leave with a deal that suited Britain more than the EU.  I don't think they'll let that happen because once they become (officially) competitors end of Jan, ruthless business rules take effect and they'll want to make sure a deal doesn't undermine their trade.  Without a deal trading with the biggest block in the world after the US, who also happens to be on your doorstep, would be very costly and painful IMO. 

In other words, you're dreaming if you think the second largest economy in the world made up of 500 mil. people is going to assist you, the fifth biggest, in re-building your economy.  They won't be able to stop you from trading obviously, but they'll make it very, very hard and without a deal trading with the EU will be slow and expensive.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Black Red Devil

And watch out if Scotland leaves the UK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hetrodoxly
45 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

I'm assuming you meant the EU was worried you would leave with a deal that suited Britain more than the EU.  I don't think they'll let that happen because once they become (officially) competitors end of Jan, ruthless business rules take effect and they'll want to make sure a deal doesn't undermine their trade.  Without a deal trading with the biggest block in the world after the US, who also happens to be on your doorstep, would be very costly and painful IMO. 

In other words, you're dreaming if you think the second largest economy in the world made up of 500 mil. people is going to assist you, the fifth biggest, in re-building your economy.  They won't be able to stop you from trading obviously, but they'll make it very, very hard and without a deal trading with the EU will be slow and expensive.

 

This argument is 3 years to late, we're leaving that's it, what do you think the EU are going to do?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hetrodoxly
45 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

And watch out if Scotland leaves the UK.

Why?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Black Red Devil
1 hour ago, hetrodoxly said:

This argument is 3 years to late, we're leaving that's it, what do you think the EU are going to do?

Just putting in my two cents worth.  I'm not trying to argue Brexit or Remain, it's nothing to do with me but, in line with the debate, IMO you guys are in for a rough time, even with a deal which is always better than a no deal anyway and furthermore, I'll even give you my Nostradamus prediction.  When the going will get rough, Boris Johnston will leave you in the lurch.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Black Red Devil
1 hour ago, hetrodoxly said:

Why?

I believe a free Scotland from English (economic) dominance could prosper.  Another headache you don't want considering they would join the EU.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hetrodoxly
47 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

you guys are in for a rough time

You have to say why.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hetrodoxly
40 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

I believe

"I believe i can fly"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Black Red Devil
20 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

You have to say why.

Told you why already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hetrodoxly
49 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Told you why already.

You've just told me what you believe, not why you believe it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Black Red Devil
3 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

You've just told me what you believe, not why you believe it.

Without going into too much detail, post #105 answered your dilemma.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
stevewinn
20 hours ago, RAyMO said:

BRINO requires Brexit. Therefore the first part is the approval of the the withdrawal agreement and is the BR part.

The INO part is that in order to get a 'deep comprehensive' trade deal in 1 year the UK will have to align very closely with the EU - that's the INO.

 

image.png.74c213dad5ef2f875c8428e6bf9fb6a3.png

image.png.ba091a466690f8db58e2a67e82e21fa4.png

14 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

And watch out if Scotland leaves the UK.

 

12 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

I believe a free Scotland from English (economic) dominance could prosper.  Another headache you don't want considering they would join the EU.

What we have to remember is this, more people in Scotland voted for Parties who are not the SNP. 55% of voters never voted for the SNP. 25% alone voted for the Tories, 18% Labour etc..

When it comes to Economy, the SNP have done a Great Job by giving Scotland the worst budget deficit in the UK. (of course this isn't their fault, its the fault of the English, and in their twisted logic its even more reason for independence)

image.png.9a7dfabc99572c921e5e59db4e1ff13d.png

If we take away the Barnett formula from Scotland, IE: Money the rUK contributes towards Scotland, that would plunge them further into a deficit by 10%. (

As for joining the EU, they are a very long way off from meeting EU rules on becoming a member, Scotland would be required to join the Euro, - Scotland’s notional deficit was the highest in the EU. Cyprus had the next nearest, at 4.8%, while Romania’s was at 3% and France at 2.5%. EU membership rules require member states to have a budget deficit below 3%. SNP have Scotland's at 7%.

and then theres the Divorce payment from Scotland back to the rUK, £783Billion. (4 times its GDP)

Scotland's GDP size puts it in-between Iraq and Bangladesh in the world rankings.

At the end of the day there isn't the support for Scotland Leaving the UK.

sorry to disappoint. ex-colonial.

The United Kingdom is going from strength to strength. after all its what we do, 431 years at the top. who'd bet against us.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RAyMO

@stevewinn quoting Boris Johnson's pledges on Brexit - doesn't really hold any water - just ask the DUP.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
itsnotoutthere
13 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

I believe a free Scotland from English (economic) dominance could prosper.  Another headache you don't want considering they would join the EU.

Or alternatively............!!

Besides, they've already held a referendum and voted no. Anyway, they'll have to wait at least 5 years probably 10 years possibly 20 years to get another chance as it doesn't seem likely there will be another Labour government any time soon. And what happens if, like the majority of people believe we actually prosper after we've left the EU, will Scotland want to leave then and go back to European rule?

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ethereal_scout

Yes

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cookie Monster
57 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

image.png.74c213dad5ef2f875c8428e6bf9fb6a3.png

image.png.ba091a466690f8db58e2a67e82e21fa4.png

 

What we have to remember is this, more people in Scotland voted for Parties who are not the SNP. 55% of voters never voted for the SNP. 25% alone voted for the Tories, 18% Labour etc..

When it comes to Economy, the SNP have done a Great Job by giving Scotland the worst budget deficit in the UK. (of course this isn't their fault, its the fault of the English, and in their twisted logic its even more reason for independence)

image.png.9a7dfabc99572c921e5e59db4e1ff13d.png

If we take away the Barnett formula from Scotland, IE: Money the rUK contributes towards Scotland, that would plunge them further into a deficit by 10%. (

As for joining the EU, they are a very long way off from meeting EU rules on becoming a member, Scotland would be required to join the Euro, - Scotland’s notional deficit was the highest in the EU. Cyprus had the next nearest, at 4.8%, while Romania’s was at 3% and France at 2.5%. EU membership rules require member states to have a budget deficit below 3%. SNP have Scotland's at 7%.

and then theres the Divorce payment from Scotland back to the rUK, £783Billion. (4 times its GDP)

Scotland's GDP size puts it in-between Iraq and Bangladesh in the world rankings.

At the end of the day there isn't the support for Scotland Leaving the UK.

sorry to disappoint. ex-colonial.

The United Kingdom is going from strength to strength. after all its what we do, 431 years at the top. who'd bet against us.

 

The General Election wasn't for Scottish Independence and polling on this topic shows no real change since they had their referendum. Even the SNP acknowledge most people voting for them weren't after independence in the election. 

We are living in the aftermath of Tony Blair who decentralised power out from Westminster to Scotland, Wales, and NI. That has both a positive impact and a negative one. The positive impact is that it allows the tailoring of policy better representing those 3 home nations. The negative impact is an increase in the number of people wanting to pull away from the UK.

We need to recentralise power, then instead of decentralising it out at the level of the home nation muddy the waters with gerrymandering. Lets have some English border regions that take border areas of Scotland and Wales under their wings. Lets devolve to the level of the greater city area so there is no home nation conspiring to have a independence referendum.

Scotland, Wales, and NI, are quite unpopulated compared to England. Lets get more people being born and build the new cities to house them in those 3 home nations. Lets transplant some of the new English people there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RAyMO
9 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Scotland, Wales, and NI, are quite unpopulated compared to England. Lets get more people being born and build the new cities to house them in those 3 home nations. Lets transplant some of the new English people there.

The UK is in its last decade. Brexit when it comes will be the final tipping point.

Ironically last time you tried planting English people in Ireland - it didn't go too well - they all turned native. Needed a new war to recolonise the Olde English and then plantation using the Scottish, thta was a bit more succesful but down to 3 counties now.

Edited by RAyMO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ethereal_scout
Quote

We are living in the aftermath of Tony Blair who decentralised power out from Westminster to Scotland, Wales, and NI.

Depends on your age here. Power was almost 100% devolved to Regional Councils before Thatcher came along, abolished them all and centralised all power to Westminster. The Regional Councils were put in place in the aftermath of WW2 when a slightly more understood population wanted the UK gov to be largely striped of its powers and have them decentralised. This introduced a three tier system that many large western countries use, including the US (county, state, federal), Germany (districts, Bundes, federal), France etc. At present Scotland has three tiers England has two tiers (District, Central). The old system would put the equivalent of a Scottish Parliament in what was approx. 50 regions in England and 8 in Scotland giving approx. 60 Regional Councils doing virtually everything district councils and central Gov now do.

I was for the old system because if it works, don't break it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cookie Monster
10 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

The UK is in its last decade. Brexit when it comes will be the final tipping point.

With Scotland the problem is a political body was created by Tony Blair which is now occupied by many people pursuing independence. They will continue to pursue independent now until the world ends. Demanding frequent referendums until they finally succeed in getting independence.

Instead of giving the Scottish Parliament more power we need to be sucking it away as that institution is a threat to the integrity of the UK. The morons right now are even on about giving England its own Parliament. The whole focus over the last 80 years has been the continual weakening and fragmentation of the British nation and we arent that far off from rock bottom - the break up of the UK.

Why are we destroying our country and for whom? This makes me think about the leadership of the Roman Empire. Faced with barbarians at the gate even then they cannot act in their countries best interests because they are gone in the head. The have convinced themselves to wield power, to be strong, to be militarily dominant, to maintain their hegemony is wrong.

Britain faces a new dark age unless its leaders shake the cobwebs out of their minds.

Edited by RabidMongoose

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RAyMO
1 minute ago, RabidMongoose said:

With Scotland the problem is a political body was created by Tony Blair which is now occupied by many people pursuing independence. They will continue to pursue independent now until the world ends. Demanding frequent referendums until they finally succeed in getting independence.

Instead of giving the Scottish Parliament more power we need to be sucking it away as that institution is a threat to the integrity of the UK. The morons right now are even on about giving England its own Parliament. The whole focus over the last 80 years has been the continual weakening and fragmentation of the British nation and we arent that far off from rock bottom - the break up of the UK.

Why are we destroying our country and for whom? This makes me think about the leadership of the Roman Empire. Faced with barbarians at the gate even then they cannot act in their countries best interests because they are gone in the head. The have convinced themselves to wield power, to be strong, to be militarily dominant, to maintain their hegemony is wrong.

Britain faces a new dark age unless its leaders shake the cobwebs out of their minds.

changing the form of government won't change the will of the people and in Scotland its a slow steady march in one direction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ethereal_scout
Quote

Instead of giving the Scottish Parliament more power we need to be sucking it away as that institution is a threat to the integrity of the UK.

Disagree. The Regional Councils had more power in many regards than the Devolved Parliament does. It has law writing and law making abilities (which the Regional Councils didn't) however the Regional Councils used to fund virtually every penny of Gov expenditure within their region. Now central Gov does it, its a disaster.

For example welfare. Each Regional Council had its own welfare system - they could alter the values and create new welfare payments. This means difference between regions, something centralists can't get their head around - they simply believe in centralising the nations 'food' in order that you can't get it.

Edited by ethereal_scout

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.