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The Road to Brexit


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12 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

EU to maintain access to City of London clearing houses after Brexit.

 "Brussels has moved to ensure EU member states retain access to the City’s clearing houses after the end of the post-Brexit transition period on 31 December. This decision is being taken to address the possible risks to financial stability related to the specific area of derivatives clearing,”

London’s clearing houses are world leaders in facilitating derivatives trading.

Clearing houses such as LCH, ICE Clear Europe and LME Clear are vital for the EU financial services firms, who would struggle to find suitable European alternatives. It comes as it was revealed yesterday that Barnier had told a House of Lords committee that the EU was “ready to grant” the City of London access to EU markets after the transition period." 

https://www.cityam.com/eu-to-maintain-access-to-city-of-london-clearing-houses-after-brexit/

and this without a deal. ;)

But, but this is all moving to frankfurt & Paris. 

 

 

 

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Brexit talks round breaks up after just a day and a half as 'significant divergences' derail progress.

 The teams were expected to hold negotiations on Wednesday and Thursday, but broke up before lunchtime on the second day. Downing Street said the short discussions were "always due to be an informal round of talks".

European Commission said that "negotiations so far have shown little progress" and said member states and businesses should revisit their preparedness plans.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-talks-michel-barnier-boris-johnson-downing-street-boris-johnson-a9610906.html

At least now the EU has access to London finance they will not go bust straight away. 

 

In other news -

Brexit VICTORY as Spain drops desperate sovereignty claim over Gibraltar.

 Madrid’s largest political parties will drop their demand for joint control over the Rock while negotiations on a free-trade agreement between the UK and European Union are ongoing. The centre-right People’s Party had called for Spain’s government to “take advantage of the historic opportunity of Brexit” to snatch back the overseas territory from Britain. But Pedro Sanchez, the country’s left-wing prime minister, has convinced his allies to drop the claim due to the importance of striking a trade deal with the UK.

 

The EU is becoming more pragmatic by the day, who'd have thought a solid negotiating stance :gun: by the UK could have delivered results.  ;)

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1306871/Brexit-news-Spain-Gibraltar-sovereignty-trade-deal-UK-EU-latest-no-deal-update

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4 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

Brexit talks round breaks up after just a day and a half as 'significant divergences' derail progress.

 The teams were expected to hold negotiations on Wednesday and Thursday, but broke up before lunchtime on the second day. Downing Street said the short discussions were "always due to be an informal round of talks".

European Commission said that "negotiations so far have shown little progress" and said member states and businesses should revisit their preparedness plans.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-talks-michel-barnier-boris-johnson-downing-street-boris-johnson-a9610906.html

At least now the EU has access to London finance they will not go bust straight away. 

In other news -

Brexit VICTORY as Spain drops desperate sovereignty claim over Gibraltar.

 Madrid’s largest political parties will drop their demand for joint control over the Rock while negotiations on a free-trade agreement between the UK and European Union are ongoing. The centre-right People’s Party had called for Spain’s government to “take advantage of the historic opportunity of Brexit” to snatch back the overseas territory from Britain. But Pedro Sanchez, the country’s left-wing prime minister, has convinced his allies to drop the claim due to the importance of striking a trade deal with the UK.

The EU is becoming more pragmatic by the day, who'd have thought a solid negotiating stance :gun: by the UK could have delivered results.  ;)

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1306871/Brexit-news-Spain-Gibraltar-sovereignty-trade-deal-UK-EU-latest-no-deal-update

Spain were the aggressor nation when they lost the rock.

There isn`t the bad blood between us like with Argentina. Why dont they offer to buy it?

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1 minute ago, Cookie Monster said:

Spain were the aggressor nation when they lost the rock.

There isn`t the bad blood between us like with Argentina. Why dont they offer to buy it?

It's quite a good military asset given its position. I doubt you would get from Spain what its true worth to the UK is over coming decades. 

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42 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

It's quite a good military asset given its position. I doubt you would get from Spain what its true worth to the UK is over coming decades. 

The issue needs putting to bed by making all 14 British overseas territories part of the UK. This includes Gib. We should also annex Malta. After all they voted via referendum in 52 to join the United Kingdom. We never took them up on that option. 

 

 

Nice to see individual countries signing deals over the head of the EU. 

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So @Captain Risky and @Ozymandias and @Helen of Annoy what are your views on the European Army?

Are you are all still living in a fantasy world about what the EU is? While at the same clapping for a `great new army` to secure your borders and the stability of the Republic? Clapping at giving up your democracy?

Come join the rebel alliance before its too late, declare independence.

Edited by Cookie Monster
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21 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

So @Captain Risky and @Ozymandias and @Helen of Annoy what are your views on the European Army?

Are you are all still living in a fantasy world about what the EU is? While at the same clapping for a `great new army` to secure your borders and the stability of the Republic? Clapping at giving up your democracy?

Come join the rebel alliance before its too late, declare independence.

I think an EU army under French control is nearing reality. Trump has left Germany potentially defenceless against Russian aggression, Turkey is causing all sorts of mischief in the Mediterranean and the Middle East. I suspect if Trump wins a second term the EU will form an army, make available funds to front line states to buy European weapons, weening them off American and British defence equipment and make peace with China and Russia. 

Making the U.S. and British foreign and defence policy irrelevant 

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@Cookie Monster EU army is long overdue. Also, it's logic evolution that cannot be stopped with childish Russian-made memes and misinterpretations of pop-culture. These are made for the specific, infantile audience. (We had parliamentary elections in my country recently and the exact percentage of people willing to swallow anti-European, quasi-conservative, Russian propaganda is 16%, out of 40% of those who actually bothered to vote. Not bad, but I will be happier when it's ridiculed down to 0.)

In other words, if you really think the EU is the enemy of the UK, then your Brexit mistake was even more monumental because you lost your chance to influence decision making in the EU and hinder its evolution. If you're aware of the reality, that the EU is not an enemy to anyone, then your bizarre decision to spread Russian propaganda aimed at creating hostility between the EU and the UK seems more like conscious treason than infantile stupidity.   

 

7 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

I think an EU army under French control is nearing reality. Trump has left Germany potentially defenceless against Russian aggression, Turkey is causing all sorts of mischief in the Mediterranean and the Middle East. I suspect if Trump wins a second term the EU will form an army, make available funds to front line states to buy European weapons, weening them off American and British defence equipment and make peace with China and Russia. 

Making the U.S. and British foreign and defence policy irrelevant 

I still hope for the return of the common sense in the US, which would help such process in the UK too. 

But if they're truly lost, or god forbid successfully posed against the EU, then - yes, the EU has realistic basis to further strengthen its ties with the East.  

Edited by Helen of Annoy
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Just now, Helen of Annoy said:

@Cookie Monster EU army is long overdue. Also, it's logic evolution that cannot be stopped with childish Russian-made memes and misinterpretations of pop-culture. These are made for the specific, infantile audience. (We had parliamentary elections in my country recently and the exact percentage of people willing to swallow anti-European, quasi-conservative, Russian propaganda is 16%. Not bad, but I will be happier when it's ridiculed down to 0.)

In other words, if you really think the EU is the enemy of the UK, then your Brexit mistake was even more monumental because you lost your chance to influence decision making in the EU and hinder its evolution. If you're aware of the reality, that the EU is not an enemy to anyone, then your bizarre decision to spread Russian propaganda aimed at creating hostility between the EU and the UK seems more like conscious treason than infantile stupidity.   

The British left the EU because the Germans were the bankers and the French the Muscle which left no room for the American lap dog. 

2 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

 I still hope for the return of the common sense in the US, which would help such process in the UK too. 

But if they're truly lost, or god forbid successfully posed against the EU, then - yes, the EU has realistic basis to further strengthen its ties with the East.  

Obama tried his best for the UK to not leave the EU. They were the American Trojan horse in the EU and now that they're gone the value of the UK has also diminished. Biden if he wins will set things right.  

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36 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

@Cookie Monster EU army is long overdue. Also, it's logic evolution that cannot be stopped with childish Russian-made memes and misinterpretations of pop-culture. These are made for the specific, infantile audience. (We had parliamentary elections in my country recently and the exact percentage of people willing to swallow anti-European, quasi-conservative, Russian propaganda is 16%, out of 40% of those who actually bothered to vote. Not bad, but I will be happier when it's ridiculed down to 0.)

In other words, if you really think the EU is the enemy of the UK, then your Brexit mistake was even more monumental because you lost your chance to influence decision making in the EU and hinder its evolution. If you're aware of the reality, that the EU is not an enemy to anyone, then your bizarre decision to spread Russian propaganda aimed at creating hostility between the EU and the UK seems more like conscious treason than infantile stupidity.   

 

I still hope for the return of the common sense in the US, which would help such process in the UK too. 

But if they're truly lost, or god forbid successfully posed against the EU, then - yes, the EU has realistic basis to further strengthen its ties with the East.  

You guys are citizens of the Fourth Reich and dont even know it lol.

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2 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

So @Captain Risky and @Ozymandias and @Helen of Annoy what are your views on the European Army?

Are you are all still living in a fantasy world about what the EU is? While at the same clapping for a `great new army` to secure your borders and the stability of the Republic? Clapping at giving up your democracy?

Come join the rebel alliance before its too late, declare independence.

You weren't paying attention were you?

The Brits are all imperial officers.

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2 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

The British left the EU because the Germans were the bankers and the French the Muscle which left no room for the American lap dog. 

Obama tried his best for the UK to not leave the EU. They were the American Trojan horse in the EU and now that they're gone the value of the UK has also diminished. Biden if he wins will set things right.  

Biden will mend a lot of damage done by Trump, but some things are gone forever. It takes decades upon decades to build the soft power reputation and 4 years to leave permanent stain on it. 

The UK was in the EU with the intention to control it and hinder its development. (There were and there still are honourable exceptions who do not think that way!) Sort of Trojan horse, but not exclusively American. (Russian oligarchy bought shocking amount of the UK.) Brexit was the reverse Trojan horse. The UK has dismantled itself from the privileged position within the EU, so that, what was supposed to be an open attack turned out to be a gift. 

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54 minutes ago, Setton said:

You weren't paying attention were you?

The Brits are all imperial officers.

Spoken like a true dyed in the wool socialist, your self loathing is blinding.

Edited by itsnotoutthere
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this-is-this-is-the-europe-european-union-il-europe-14652328.png.6d52c843dd75cfa2a8176f4bdd598987.png

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18 minutes ago, itsnotoutthere said:

this-is-this-is-the-europe-european-union-il-europe-14652328.png.6d52c843dd75cfa2a8176f4bdd598987.png

Says the guy from the United Kingdom. 

Is it getting through? The kingdom you live in is united. (More or less, since Brexit, but that's another can of worms.)

When you're hoping people will leave their brains aside and take the isolationist course, you're preparing the way for the dissolution of your country. 

 

Also, the EU is democratic. Everyone in every EU country can and should vote in the EU elections. They are no different than any parliamentary elections in any member state and the officials the appointed to their functions the same as the ministers and other officials are appointed in each member state. 

So your dispropaganda truly is disinformation propaganda. They've accidentally picked a true name, just like Brexit accidentally accelerated the EU unification.

 

Since you're not in the EU anymore, why are you sticking your nose in my business? Am I telling you to get rid of your unelected queen? 

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2 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

You guys are citizens of the Fourth Reich and dont even know it lol.

Yeah, the fourth Reich that is trying to contain the right wing extremists unlike the UK that supports them. De Gaul was right about UK joining the EU. Only problems. Now, you are out, all the best to you, see you on the Adria coast, the Mediteranian, the Alps....you are welcome.

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2 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Says the guy from the United Kingdom. 

Is it getting through? The kingdom you live in is united. (More or less, since Brexit, but that's another can of worms.)

When you're hoping people will leave their brains aside and take the isolationist course, you're preparing the way for the dissolution of your country. 

Also, the EU is democratic. Everyone in every EU country can and should vote in the EU elections. They are no different than any parliamentary elections in any member state and the officials the appointed to their functions the same as the ministers and other officials are appointed in each member state. 

So your dispropaganda truly is disinformation propaganda. They've accidentally picked a true name, just like Brexit accidentally accelerated the EU unification.

Since you're not in the EU anymore, why are you sticking your nose in my business? Am I telling you to get rid of your unelected queen? 

Did you vote for the EU President as I know I didnt?

Isolationism is cutting yourself off from the world, not leaving the EU. We are a global trading nation and arent changing that so why would we be going isolationist? The difference between our Queen and your President is that she is our checks and measures, not a policy forming and implementing figurehead. We like the Queen too, we like the Monarchy, they are great symbols of Britishness and a part of our national identity. Keep your hands off our Monarchy please!!!!

As regards the EU President (who I suppose is my President until the end of the year too) then I cannot even tell you who that currently is. How many EU citizens have seen the Presidents name on an election ballot? Who voted for them? Who knows anything about them? Who knows what their vision or aims are during their time as President? They haven`t even introduced themselves on the television to the public. What a phoney way to run a phoney democracy. Why isn`t the EU a federation? One set of policies does not work for 500 million people and their businesses. Policy needs tailoring to each member state or they are all put at a loss.

I did some research on austerity the other day and do you know thats the only way the EU allows member states to reduce their national debts? I feel really sorry for Greece, Spain, Italy, and Ireland. The single currency controls interest rates so they cannot inflate it away either. If your national debt is growing at 2% per annum and your inflation is 2.5% then your national debt decreases in real terms by 0.5%. EU member states are also banned from devaluing their currency which is another way of reducing the value of their national debts in real terms. Member states also arent allowed to default on their debts or write them off. Why is this? I`ll tell you why.

Germany is the major exporter to other EU member states and its economy goes belly up if the others stop consuming its products and services in significant quantities. It goes belly up if its export contracts become worth less, it goes bellow up if the money coming in for each product and service sold is worth less. It goes belly up if a member state cannot pay German suppliers or if they refuse too. Germany has trapped the majority of EU member states into being consumers of its products and services. When they struggle financially it feeds them money so they can continue to buy its products and services, but as a result they are tied too it. It controls them, it has leverage over them, it already basically owns Greece. The EU functions as a German hegemony gaining power over the other member states via finances rather than military force.

For its brain washed citizens who think they are on the good side of history, who give up their freedom and independence thinking no bad will come from it, who would even welcome an army which doesnt take orders from them onto their soil, they have already capitulated to the coming EU Empire. The really sad thing is when the EU goes to war (and it will happen at some point) you guys and gals will willingly dying on the battlefield for it as you are that brainwashed. Sure there will be some people scratching their heads asking how did we get here again? But you will no doubt convince yourselves they are racists, extremists, or backwards thinking people.

Us Brits and Americans wont be able to save you when it comes, Germany has married France to it which owns a nuclear deterrent.

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1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Biden will mend a lot of damage done by Trump, but some things are gone forever. It takes decades upon decades to build the soft power reputation and 4 years to leave permanent stain on it. 

The UK was in the EU with the intention to control it and hinder its development. (There were and there still are honourable exceptions who do not think that way!) Sort of Trojan horse, but not exclusively American. (Russian oligarchy bought shocking amount of the UK.) Brexit was the reverse Trojan horse. The UK has dismantled itself from the privileged position within the EU, so that, what was supposed to be an open attack turned out to be a gift. 

Relevant but slightly off topic it amazes me with how aligned the U.S. is to the future direction of the UK. and i don't just mean militarily and politically but socially and culturally also. It seems whatever happens in America will be knee-jerked in the UK quick smart to the point that one has no other option but to cry out that the UK is overly influenced by a cultural and socially superior America. The U.S. elects an anti-establishment politician and so does the UK. BLM leaving the EU. Anti-big government, American military adventures, unhinged capitalism and list goes on. Im beginning to wonder whether the UK isn't but another star on the American flag and if so then will a Biden administration mean the political end of Boris Johnson and a more tolerable UK towards the EU. 

Edited by Captain Risky
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25 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

Did you vote for the EU President as I know I didnt?

 

The EU has no president. 

I voted in the EU elections, so together with my countrymen I chose our representatives in the EU Parliament. I'm happy with our choice and I'm happy with my representatives' choices so far. 

The rest of your post is amusing, but not worth analysis. 

Bye, go away, shoo, off and away, waste no time worrying about the EU, thanks, auf Wiedersehen, siđi mi s grbače...   

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2 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

The EU has no president. 

I voted in the EU elections, so together with my countrymen I chose our representatives in the EU Parliament. I'm happy with our choice and I'm happy with my representatives' choices so far. 

The rest of your post is amusing, but not worth analysis. 

Bye, go away, shoo, off and away, waste no time worrying about the EU, thanks, auf Wiedersehen, siđi mi s grbače...   

Ask if he voted for the Queen and that other bunch of claret drink lords that govern by virtue of ancient non elected title. 

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11 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Relevant but slightly off topic it amazes me with how aligned the U.S. is to the future direction of the UK. and i don't just mean militarily and politically but socially and culturally also. It seems whatever happens in America will be knee-jerked in the UK quick smart to the point that one has no other option but to cry out that the UK is overly influenced by a cultural and socially superior America. The U.S. elects an anti-establishment politician and so does the UK. BLM leaving the EU. Anti-big government, American military adventures, unhinged capitalism and list goes on. Im beginning to wonder whether the UK isn't but another star on the American flag and if so then will a Biden administration mean the political end of Boris Johnson and a more tolerable UK towards the EU. 

Almost an unofficial, spontaneous commonwealth outside the Commonwealth. Except for the monarchy, of course. Why not, makes sense. But I'm not sure Brits have got anyone sane left to try taking the country in less suicidal direction and it's near impossible now. Anyone who would take over from the Trump's twin would end up being blamed for all the damage he had done. Brexiters would moan forever about their chance at creating libertarian paradise being taken away from them. 

It's best - and only possible - that Brexiters get exactly what they wanted. No one can or should interrupt the consequences of their infantile attempt at extorting the EU. 

Only after it's clear who was lying and who profited on the downfall of the UK, the rejoining can start. 

I don't think Biden will even try intervening until the US is consolidated and the UK done facing the full extent of their isolationist episode. But common people will probably be less prone to support the Trumper-Brexiter narrative once Trump is exposed as that, what he truly is. I think there's certain uncertainty already, since a good part of the Brexiter fantastic promises depended on the best deals Trump's got for them.  

  

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1 minute ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Almost an unofficial, spontaneous commonwealth outside the Commonwealth. Except for the monarchy, of course. Why not, makes sense. But I'm not sure Brits have got anyone sane left to try taking the country in less suicidal direction and it's near impossible now. Anyone who would take over from the Trump's twin would end up being blamed for all the damage he had done. Brexiters would moan forever about their chance at creating libertarian paradise being taken away from them. 

It's best - and only possible - that Brexiters get exactly what they wanted. No one can or should interrupt the consequences of their infantile attempt at extorting the EU. 

Only after it's clear who was lying and who profited on the downfall of the UK, the rejoining can start. 

I don't think Biden will even try intervening until the US is consolidated and the UK done facing the full extent of their isolationist episode. But common people will probably be less prone to support the Trumper-Brexiter narrative once Trump is exposed as that, what he truly is. I think there's certain uncertainty already, since a good part of the Brexiter fantastic promises depended on the best deals Trump's got for them.  

  

Bolded: Nail on head, Helen. The success of Brexit hinges on the failure of the EU. We've heard steve and co say so on many occasions. Extortion is what brexit was built on. Buts its a simple and silly thinking to make the EU put a gun to its head and blow its proverbial brains out to save uninterrupted trade with 65 million people by destroying a common market of 450 million. Brexit isn't about Britain doing better its about trying to destroy the Germans and French. Its about turning Europe into another carbon copy of pre-world war 1 where the great powers pushed their proxies into endless wars and colonial endeavours. The British want their empire back and are prepared to blow their own brains if the Germans and French don't do it first. If i was the EU id walk away from any discussion, revert to WTO rules until a grown-up assumes the office of British PM. and if i was Biden id put them on the slow tract trade agreement list for electing the Trump clone. 

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6 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Almost an unofficial, spontaneous commonwealth outside the Commonwealth. Except for the monarchy, of course. Why not, makes sense. But I'm not sure Brits have got anyone sane left to try taking the country in less suicidal direction and it's near impossible now. Anyone who would take over from the Trump's twin would end up being blamed for all the damage he had done. Brexiters would moan forever about their chance at creating libertarian paradise being taken away from them. 

It's best - and only possible - that Brexiters get exactly what they wanted. No one can or should interrupt the consequences of their infantile attempt at extorting the EU. 

Only after it's clear who was lying and who profited on the downfall of the UK, the rejoining can start. 

I don't think Biden will even try intervening until the US is consolidated and the UK done facing the full extent of their isolationist episode. But common people will probably be less prone to support the Trumper-Brexiter narrative once Trump is exposed as that, what he truly is. I think there's certain uncertainty already, since a good part of the Brexiter fantastic promises depended on the best deals Trump's got for them.  

  

Thank you for letting us go ahead un-interrupted.

You know most of us Brexiteers like both Trump and Boris. Them two are fantastic. My world was made when we not only voted to leave the EU, but Trump and Boris both came to power. I know you dont like them, I know you think its all doom and gloom for us coming next year, I know you think both are morons, and I know you think there are bad times ahead for the US too. But are you also prepared to be wrong and prepared to admit things might go differently than what you hope and expect?

What will happen to the EU if Britain does well? I think you will find we wont be the only ones that decide to leave. I also think you will find that while most of us expect it to go okay or good, even if we take a hit we will take it. I dont think it will happen but if we have a short-term hit like a recession we will accept it with our stiff upper British lips. Then find our footing, rebuild, and off we go again to prosperity. Mind you, knowing I know of indicates its going to go badly but we will wait and see.  

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8 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Bolded: Nail on head, Helen. The success of Brexit hinges on the failure of the EU. We've heard steve and co say so on many occasions. Extortion is what brexit was built on. Buts its a simple and silly thinking to make the EU put a gun to its head and blow its proverbial brains out to save uninterrupted trade with 65 million people by destroying a common market of 450 million. Brexit isn't about Britain doing better its about trying to destroy the Germans and French. Its about turning Europe into another carbon copy of pre-world war 1 where the great powers pushed their proxies into endless wars and colonial endeavours. The British want their empire back and are prepared to blow their own brains if the Germans and French don't do it first. If i was the EU id walk away from any discussion, revert to WTO rules until a grown-up assumes the office of British PM. and if i was Biden id put them on the slow tract trade agreement list for electing the Trump clone. 

Well, it was a cunning plan. Only it had a tiny logic fault. 

I have a cunning plan - A History of Cunning Plans in Blackadder

 

 

I absolutely love Tony Robinson. I'd give him a kidney if he needs one. Preferably Cookie's or steve's kidney, but I'd give my own too :D  

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3 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Well, it was a cunning plan. Only it had a tiny logic fault. 

I have a cunning plan - A History of Cunning Plans in Blackadder

 

 

I absolutely love Tony Robinson. I'd give him a kidney if he needs one. Preferably Cookie's or steve's kidney, but I'd give my own too :D  

The British a suckers for steak and kidney pie so Tony just might take you up on that. 

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