The Road to Brexit

[Duke Wellington]

2 minutes ago, Setton said:

You wouldn't know the first thing about being pro-Britain. 

Just like I wouldnt know the first thing about pro-USA?

Edited December 22, 2019 by RabidMongoose

[Black Red Devil]

8 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Or alternatively............!!

Besides, they've already held a referendum and voted no. Anyway, they'll have to wait at least 5 years probably 10 years possibly 20 years to get another chance as it doesn't seem likely there will be another Labour government any time soon. And what happens if, like the majority of people believe we actually prosper after we've left the EU, will Scotland want to leave then and go back to European rule?

That was before the English dumped Brexit on them.  Why would they have to wait for Labour to get back into Govt?  Sturgeon was already pushing for an referendum this year.  With Johnston at the helm noones going to hold her back in 2020.

[Setton]

1 hour ago, RabidMongoose said:

Just like I wouldnt know the first thing about pro-USA?

No, I'm sure you're very good at putting other countries ahead of your own. 

[Duke Wellington]

10 minutes ago, Setton said:

No, I'm sure you're very good at putting other countries ahead of your own. 

This will all be over soon.

Will you be bored afterwards?

[Setton]

32 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

This will all be over soon.

Will you be bored afterwards?

Doubtful. Unlike you, this only takes up a very small percentage of my attention. 

[itsnotoutthere]

11 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

That was before the English dumped Brexit on them.  Why would they have to wait for Labour to get back into Govt?  Sturgeon was already pushing for an referendum this year.  With Johnston at the helm noones going to hold her back in 2020.

Simple. A referendum has to be approved by the Westminster government. 

"With Johnston at the helm noones going to hold her back in 2020."  …..and what does that even mean?

Edited December 23, 2019 by itsnotoutthere

[hetrodoxly]

12 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

That was before the English dumped Brexit on them.  Why would they have to wait for Labour to get back into Govt?  Sturgeon was already pushing for an referendum this year.  With Johnston at the helm noones going to hold her back in 2020.

What about the Welsh? what about the 1,000,000 Scottish who voted leave only 1,600,000 voted remain, where my son lives they had remain dumped on them, but luckily the majority knew better.  

[RAyMO]

13 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

With Johnston at the helm noones going to hold her back in 2020.

she should wait to June 2021 I believe that would be the best time for a Scottish and indeed NI referendum -especially if No Trade Deal materialises.

although in NI case that could be complicated by the centenary of the state formation

Edited December 23, 2019 by RAyMO

[RAyMO]

13 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

That was before the English dumped Brexit on them.  Why would they have to wait for Labour to get back into Govt?  Sturgeon was already pushing for an referendum this year.  With Johnston at the helm noones going to hold her back in 2020.

They were told the best way to stay in Europe was to vote no. Typical say anything type attitude of the elites.

[stevewinn]

I see the remainers have a new hobby horse.

I also see they rally against their own Great British Union, in favour of the European Union a foriegn power. 

next they'll be calling themselves patriots............erm oh,................

[Setton]

7 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

I see the remainers have a new hobby horse.

I also see they rally against their own Great British Union, in favour of the European Union a foriegn power. 

next they'll be calling themselves patriots............erm oh,................

For the tenth time, saying something will happen is not the same as wanting it to. 

Yes the oh so patriotic leavers are apparently more pro-US than they are pro-Britain. 

[stevewinn]

2 minutes ago, Setton said:

For the tenth time, saying something will happen is not the same as wanting it to. 

Yes the oh so patriotic leavers are apparently more pro-US than they are pro-Britain. 

So, when are you going to start your new campaign to convince the Scots and N.Irish to remain part of the UK. in your own time.......

 

[stevewinn]

while we wait, @Setton the trend not only continues but accelerates. gap only set to increase once out and pursuing our own trade deals with the rest of the world. representing 86% of the market.

 

[stevewinn]

38 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

So, when are you going to start your new campaign to convince the Scots and N.Irish to remain part of the UK. in your own time.......

 

@Setton while we continue to wait for you to make the argument......................

Since 11pm, 29 March 2019, the UK has paid the EU £8,925,884,726.44. This could've paid for 99 new hospitals, 388,081 nurses, 338,730 policemen, or even the repair of 168,412,919 potholes. A single pile of what we've paid in £20 notes would be 31.34 miles tall.

Remainers happy this money went to the EU than spent here at home. look what we could've had.

[Setton]

1 hour ago, stevewinn said:

So, when are you going to start your new campaign to convince the Scots and N.Irish to remain part of the UK. in your own time.......

You caused this, you fix it. 

While I don't want to see the break up of the union, its not for me to clean up your mess. 

Quote

1 hour ago, stevewinn said:

while we wait, @Setton 

 

1 hour ago, stevewinn said:

@Setton while we continue to wait for you to make the argument......................

 

 

Terribly sorry you had to wait a whole hour for a response, I have a life. 

[Duke Wellington]

1 hour ago, stevewinn said:

@Setton while we continue to wait for you to make the argument......................

Since 11pm, 29 March 2019, the UK has paid the EU £8,925,884,726.44. This could've paid for 99 new hospitals, 388,081 nurses, 338,730 policemen, or even the repair of 168,412,919 potholes. A single pile of what we've paid in £20 notes would be 31.34 miles tall.

Remainers happy this money went to the EU than spent here at home. look what we could've had.

Or it would have created half a million jobs at £20,000 per annum to crush unemployment.

[Setton]

1 hour ago, stevewinn said:

Since 11pm, 29 March 2019, the UK has paid the EU £8,925,884,726.44. This could've paid for 99 new hospitals, 388,081 nurses, 338,730 policemen, or even the repair of 168,412,919 potholes. A single pile of what we've paid in £20 notes would be 31.34 miles tall.

Still using your made up bus figures, eh? 

[RAyMO]

3 hours ago, stevewinn said:

I see the remainers have a new hobby horse.

I also see they rally against their own Great British Union, in favour of the European Union a foriegn power. 

next they'll be calling themselves patriots............erm oh,................

interestingly the last election - the one we just had

England - dominated by English nationalist  vote

Scotland dominated by Scottish Nationalist Vote

N Ireland - Irish nationalists pass Unionists for 1st time.

"in favour of the European Union a foriegn power."

You think England is not a foreign power to those outside England? Because what brexit clearly demonstrated is there is no Union merely English dominance.

 

Edited December 23, 2019 by RAyMO

[stevewinn]

1 hour ago, Setton said:

You caused this, you fix it. 

While I don't want to see the break up of the union, its not for me to clean up your mess. 

Terribly sorry you had to wait a whole hour for a response, I have a life. 

Why are you not making the same arguments for Scotland and N.I to remain part of the UK, Has you did for the UK to remain in the EU. 

lets start off with trade. 44% of UK trade is with the EU. representing 11% of UK GDP. this was one of your arguments to remain. lets hear you spout the same argument for Scotland remaining in the UK.

I'll start you off, Scotland's trade with the UK is 60%, Rest of the World 25%  EU 15%....So 85% of Scottish trade is with Non-EU markets.

the SNP thanks to 2016 devolution of income tax. have run a income tax deficit. resulting in a £941 million income tax shortfall. The Scottish Government raised £941 million less than expected in devolved income taxes in 2017/18, new figures from HMRC reveal. The rUK as stepped in with £737 million increase from UK Government funding. luckily the SNP's feck up will be offset by the £737 million increase to the block grant funded by the UK Government. It means the Scottish Government will have to manage a reduction in funding in 2020/21 of £204million. (no doubt the SNP will spin it differently as Tory cuts) SNP giving Scotland a deficit seven times bigger than that of the UK as a whole. then we have the fact they don't have their own currency. then we have the divorce bill, obviously this was one of your arguments that the UK should pay the EU £33Billion. how much will Scotland have to pay the rUK for leaving our Union? and what of the border? we'd have to build a wall, Scotland cant leave the UK's single market.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Saru
Removed personal attacks

[Saru]

Keep it civil please folks.

[stevewinn]

1 hour ago, RAyMO said:

interestingly the last election - the one we just had

England - dominated by English nationalist  vote

Scotland dominated by Scottish Nationalist Vote

N Ireland - Irish nationalists pass Unionists for 1st time.

"in favour of the European Union a foriegn power."

You think England is not a foreign power to those outside England? Because what brexit clearly demonstrated is there is no Union merely English dominance.

 

Let us remember ours is a 312 year Union. agreed to by consent. how many Scottish Kings/Queens have sat on the English thrown, i'll let you tell me. so Scotland is well represented. including if memory serves 11 Prime Ministers who were Scottish. if anything Scotland is as been over represented for its demographic. Scotland has its own parliament, Wales has its own government and N.Ireland its own assembly and Yet we don't have an English one!! and then we have more spending per capita higher in all parts of the Kingdom besides England. and you talk about English dominance. behave yourself. i think you need to give your head a wobble.

As for the last Election, Its held as United Kingdom as a whole. just in the same way the Referendum, you making these arguments has nothing to do with you being on the losing side in both. No Sirree.

*snip*

Edited December 23, 2019 by Saru
Again, enough with the personal attacks please.

[RAyMO]

18 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

We have yourself who wants a United Ireland. = Break up of the UK.

True I always have done. But never thought I'd see it. Though now I suspect I will, even some unionists in casual conversations starting to say the future is in Dublin not London.

This was a change brought about solely by Brexit. and for added benefit, Brexit has shown that the economic arguments won't be the primary deciding factor.

The majority views of people in Northern Ireland and I dare say Scotland have consistently been ignored whether it be the poll tax, or universal credit, or the bedroom tax, or Brexit, Austerity v growth or the East West border...

I doubt Scoltand and NI are conservative countries yet how many times have we be subjected to conservative governments and policies. The majority will is fine and good within ones own country - its a totally different matter when the majority of another country overrules your own.

 

Edited December 23, 2019 by RAyMO

[ethereal_scout]

Quote

Yet we don't have an English one!!

What powers would an English Parliament have that a Westminster one doesn't? This is where I'm lost. Scottish MPs at Westminster number 58 (or thereabouts) therefore the veto works (under the previous system) entirely in England's favour. The ability of Scottish MPs to veto English business is zero.

Still maintain you need to take the word "Anglican" of your Churches and replace it with the term "Church of England" - and that in time will appease the nationalists by giving them back their building.

[Saru]

36 minutes ago, Saru said:

Keep it civil please folks.

Thread cleaned again

Second time within the space of a single page.

If you can't put forward an argument without targeting other members for personal derision, you don't have an argument at all.

[Setton]

1 hour ago, stevewinn said:

Why are you not making the same arguments for Scotland and N.I to remain part of the UK, Has you did for the UK to remain in the EU. 

Because I have better things to do than dig you out of the hole you've made.