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Manwon Lender

Government internet monitoring

How many members think Internet forums are subject to Government monitoring  

10 members have voted

  1. 1. Are Internet and chat forums being monitored by the Government.

    • I believe that Internet forums are being monitored by the Government?
      8
    • I don't believe that the Government is monitoring Internet forums?
      2


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Manwon Lender

I have been thinking about this for awhile, I am starting to believe that internet chat forums are being monitored by the the Government. If they are some of us should be very careful how we address answers to questions by other forum members. Just today I read a post by a forum member who was venting in a Political thread and made a statement to the effect that if party X does something they don't agree with that forces will rise up and physically harm members of party Y. 

These comments are venting for the most part, but if we are being monitored, in today's world how would these comments be viewed by government hacks monitoring the post. 

Please post your comments and thoughts on this subject and also vote on the Poll that us included.

Peace

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Farmer77
Just now, Manwon Lender said:

I have been thinking about this for awhile, I am starting to believe that internet chat forums are being monitored by the the Government. If they are some of us should be very careful how we address answers to questions by other forum members. Just today I read a post by a forum member who was venting in a Political thread and made a statement to the effect that if party X does something they don't agree with that forces will rise up and physically harm members of party Y. 

These comments are venting for the most part, but if we are being monitored, in today's world how would these comments be viewed by government hacks monitoring the post. 

Please post your comments and thoughts on this subject and also vote on the Poll that us included.

Peace

I have no doubt that there is some sort of monitoring. Whether its an old school occasional drop in by a human or a computer sitting in Fort Huachuca running everything through an algorithm someone is tasked with monitoring certain sites. 

I'm drawing an absolute blank on the name of the specific anti trump protest but the government went after their chat records after they had made the arrests so even if theyre not actively monitoring they certainly will go dig stuff up.

Oh it was the J20 protests ! 

 

Quote

On 17 July 2017, the US Department of Justice served DreamHost, the company hosting the DisruptJ20 website, with a search warrant[32] for all information held about the site.[33] The information requested in the warrant included the IP addresses of 1.3 million people who visited the site, as well as the date and time of their visit and information about the browser and operating system.[33] In addition to this, the contact information, email content and photos of thousands of people was requested.[34] DreamHost challenged the warrant in court, arguing that it was a "highly untargeted demand" that chilled its users' constitutional rights.[35] The Electronic Frontier Foundation also called the warrant an unconstitutional fishing expedition.[33] On October 10, 2017, Chief Judge Robert Morin of the Superior Court of the District of Columbia issued an order significantly narrowing the warrant's scope. "[W]hile the government has the right to execute its Warrant," he wrote, "it does not have the right to rummage through the information contained on DreamHost's website and discover the identity of, or access communications by, individuals not participating in alleged criminal activity, particularly those persons who were engaging in protected First Amendment activities."[36]

In late November 2017, six people charged with rioting went on trial. Prosecutors alleged that these six people were taking part in DisruptJ20 protests and vandalism.[37] A jury trial found the six defendants not guilty on all counts in December 2017.[38] On January 18, 2018, the U.S. Justice Department dropped charges against 129 people, leaving 59 defendants to face charges related to the DisruptJ20 protest.[39] By early July 2018, federal prosecutors had dropped all charges against all defendants in the case.[40]

 

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Dumbledore the Awesome

Well, if they are, I'd love to know what they make of my occasional mentions of America's beloved leader, the Emperor Donald, blessed be his name 

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toast

Hell, I think I clicked no instead of yes.

Its quite clear that the web get screened, see the US and GB for example. Also here in Germany the web get screened one way or another by the Bundesnachrichtendienst (Foreign Intelligence Service) and postal- and telecommunication companies are compelled by law to assist the authorities in case of investigation but a judgmental resolution have to be obtained in advance. I`m ok with that because it does not restrict my freedom of speech in any kind. If I state that our, e.g., foreign minister is an idiot, which he is, there will be no focused screening on my person. If so, as I´m not the only one with that opinion, the secret services would block themselves because I´m one out of a few millions who think so.

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Dumbledore the Awesome

Surely to be quite honest, given which powerful entities we all know control public discussion, anyone voicing dissent against America's Beloved Leader could only be viewed favorably by those who Listen In. So I don't think Farmer ( :st) has anything to worry about. In fact, I'm pretty sure you earn a big fat tick against your name in the records of the Intelligence Community. 

Edited by Dumbledore the Awesome
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Farmer77
5 minutes ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

So I don't think Farmer ( :st) has anything to worry about. In fact, I'm pretty sure you earn a big fat tick against your name in the records of the Intelligence Community. 

My checks still cash :ph34r::lol:

Seriously though none of it would be legally actionable against an American citizen if discovered without a warrant so for now anyways the apparatus would be solely there for NBC type threats.

Edited by Farmer77
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toast
5 minutes ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

Well, if they are, I'd love to know what they make of my occasional mentions of America's beloved leader, the Emperor Donald, blessed be his name 

I mentioned him and I wrote him my impressions about his person, his political style, my judgement about his level of general education and the cut of his trousers on Twitter and all of a sudden my account got deleted.

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Waspie_Dwarf

This poll is badly thought out and rather meaningless for (at least) two reasons.

Firstly, who are "the Government"? The government of the US? The government of the UK. The government of China? The government of Micronesia? In the context of the question there is no such thing as "the Government".

Secondly what is meant by "monitoring internet forums". It is quite clear that police forces and security forces around the world monitor specific forums for legitimate reasons such as anti-terrorism and child protection, so the answer to the ridiculously vague question has to be yes.

The meaningful question, surely, is to what level specific governments routinely monitor web forums for other reasons. This is where my first point comes in, you are likely to get a very different answer if you live in, say Hong Kong, to Hollywood or High Wycombe,

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Manwon Lender
8 hours ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

Well, if they are, I'd love to know what they make of my occasional mentions of America's beloved leader, the Emperor Donald, blessed be his name 

I think they enjoy your posts, I know I certainly do.

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Manwon Lender
3 hours ago, Waspie_Dwarf said:

This poll is badly thought out and rather meaningless for (at least) two reasons.

Firstly, who are "the Government"? The government of the US? The government of the UK. The government of China? The government of Micronesia? In the context of the question there is no such thing as "the Government".

Secondly what is meant by "monitoring internet forums". It is quite clear that police forces and security forces around the world monitor specific forums for legitimate reasons such as anti-terrorism and child protection, so the answer to the ridiculously vague question has to be yes.

The meaningful question, surely, is to what level specific governments routinely monitor web forums for other reasons. This is where my first point comes in, you are likely to get a very different answer if you live in, say Hong Kong, to Hollywood or High Wycombe,

Thanks for your input to this thread, I think your right, can you help me change it to say the US Government?

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spartan max2
3 hours ago, Waspie_Dwarf said:

This poll is badly thought out and rather meaningless for (at least) two reasons.

Firstly, who are "the Government"? The government of the US? The government of the UK. The government of China? The government of Micronesia? In the context of the question there is no such thing as "the Government".

Secondly what is meant by "monitoring internet forums". It is quite clear that police forces and security forces around the world monitor specific forums for legitimate reasons such as anti-terrorism and child protection, so the answer to the ridiculously vague question has to be yes.

The meaningful question, surely, is to what level specific governments routinely monitor web forums for other reasons. This is where my first point comes in, you are likely to get a very different answer if you live in, say Hong Kong, to Hollywood or High Wycombe,

Ditto.

My same thoughts when looking at the poll.

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spartan max2

 

A timely poll. The government monitors with algorithms that pick up key words and phrases, if enough are picked up then a human will look.

Though in recent years more of the intelligence community have stated that it's actually pretty useless.

Also, the article below is a timely update on it.

 

Quote

Senior Republicans and Democrats in Congress have said they support terminating the National Security Agency’s controversial surveillance tool that collects information about U.S. phone calls and text messages, in opposition to a Trump administration push to preserve the program.

The growing consensus to let the once-secret program lapse marks a significant shift from four years ago, when lawmakers voted by wide margins on both sides of the aisle to renew it—with limitations.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/nsa-phone-surveillance-program-faces-an-end-as-parties-come-together-11575641253

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Manwon Lender
9 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

 

A timely poll. The government monitors with algorithms that pick up key words and phrases, if enough are picked up then a human will look.

Though in recent years more of the intelligence community have stated that it's actually pretty useless.

Also, the article below is a timely update on it.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/nsa-phone-surveillance-program-faces-an-end-as-parties-come-together-11575641253

What are your qualifications on this subject besides google or other search engines?

Your link is subscription only, it proves nothing. But please carry on and continue with your beliefs.

Edited by Manwon Lender

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Manwon Lender
13 hours ago, Waspie_Dwarf said:

This poll is badly thought out and rather meaningless for (at least) two reasons.

Firstly, who are "the Government"? The government of the US? The government of the UK. The government of China? The government of Micronesia? In the context of the question there is no such thing as "the Government".

Secondly what is meant by "monitoring internet forums". It is quite clear that police forces and security forces around the world monitor specific forums for legitimate reasons such as anti-terrorism and child protection, so the answer to the ridiculously vague question has to be yes.

The meaningful question, surely, is to what level specific governments routinely monitor web forums for other reasons. This is where my first point comes in, you are likely to get a very different answer if you live in, say Hong Kong, to Hollywood or High Wycombe,

Currently in the USA with all the Mass Shootings, they are monitoring all forms of Social Media. They are also monitoring political threads looking specifically for threats of Sedition, threats again political party members and threats against the President. This country is in political termoil, and the anger involved is causing people to make threats both veiled and openly. Government surveillance is being currently used to look for these threats, and people should understand this and control their comments that fall into the catigories I listed above in this post. 

I really don't care if you believe it or not that is what opinions are far, and you have clear expressed your opinion on this subject.

Thanks

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Manwon Lender
18 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

I have no doubt that there is some sort of monitoring. Whether its an old school occasional drop in by a human or a computer sitting in Fort Huachuca running everything through an algorithm someone is tasked with monitoring certain sites. 

I'm drawing an absolute blank on the name of the specific anti trump protest but the government went after their chat records after they had made the arrests so even if theyre not actively monitoring they certainly will go dig stuff up.

Oh it was the J20 protests ! 

 

 

Please enter 2019 or 2020, Fort Huachuca? The FBI or the NSA have never operated out of Ft. Huachuca, that's the US Army's intelligence and communication command. Which has nothing to do with government intelligence agencies. However they do have a site at Yakima training center in Yakima, Washington. That is used by the NSA and possible by the FBI, I was involved in a training mission there in 1996 / 1997 time frame.

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and then
23 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

This country is in political termoil, and the anger involved is causing people to make threats both veiled and openly. Government surveillance is being currently used to look for these threats, and people should understand this and control their comments that fall into the catigories I listed above in this post. 

While I agree that our government is screening for possibly violent people making plans to lash out on the public, I don't imagine they are overdoing it at this point. I suspect that the rule of thumb is the same for threats against the president.  My guess is they number in the thousands every year no matter who is president.  The Secret Service doesn't pay a call to every one of them.  Those that they do feel need to be investigated still have to meet a certain criteria before any thought of prosecution is considered.  If a person who has never had problems with law enforcement, who is not a gun owner and who is financially unlikely to be able to afford to travel to make good his threat, the tendency is to just pass him off as an angry but impotent non-threat.  The ones they seriously look into are those who have the means to make good a threat.

As to "understand and control their comments", that is self-censorship and most people would hesitate to doing a tyrannical government's job for them.  We still have the First Amendment and every right to speak our minds so long as we do not threaten others or attempt to incite violence.  If we begin going down the path of being afraid someone will misunderstand our words and come after us then we might as well not go online at all.  The thread I began about FB and the special algorithms that are supposed to identify POTENTIAL problems with people are, IMO, the real danger to our freedom.  It's one thing to actually use words that threaten but when the government begins to arrest people for "veiled" threats then something so subjective is a real violation of 1A. 

BTW, when I use caps it isn't to yell at people.  It's just my way of emphasizing certain words. :) 

Edited by and then

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spartan max2
42 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

What are your qualifications on this subject besides google or other search engines?

Your link is subscription only, it proves nothing. But please carry on and continue with your beliefs.

Confused by your hostile reaction.

What part of what I said do you disagree with is a good place to start?

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Manwon Lender
7 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Confused by your hostile reaction.

What part of what I said do you disagree with is a good place to start?

Nothing hostile I simply asked what are your qualification on this subject, other than using internet search engines?

By your comments above it seems that you have some qualification on the subject, is this difficult to answer?

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Manwon Lender
18 minutes ago, and then said:

While I agree that our government is screening for possibly violent people making plans to lash out on the public, I don't imagine they are overdoing it at this point. I suspect that the rule of thumb is the same for threats against the president.  My guess is they number in the thousands every year no matter who is president.  The Secret Service doesn't pay a call to every one of them.  Those that they do feel need to be investigated still have to meet a certain criteria before any thought of prosecution is considered.  If a person who has never had problems with law enforcement, who is not a gun owner and who is financially unlikely to be able to afford to travel to make good his threat, the tendency is to just pass him off as an angry but impotent non-threat.  The ones they seriously look into are those who have the means to make good a threat.

As to "understand and control their comments", that is self-censorship and most people would hesitate to doing a tyrannical government's job for them.  We still have the First Amendment and every right to speak our minds so long as we do not threaten others or attempt to incite violence.  If we begin going down the path of being afraid someone will misunderstand our words and come after us then we might as well not go online at all.  The thread I began about FB and the special algorithms that are supposed to identify POTENTIAL problems with people are, IMO, the real danger to our freedom.  It's one thing to actually use words that threaten but when the government begins to arrest people for "veiled" threats then something so subjective is a real violation of 1A. 

BTW, when I use caps it isn't to yell at people.  It's just my way of emphasizing certain words. :) 

No the secret service certainly doesn't pay a call to each of them, but the local police do help out iin those situations. I agree that the ones who have the means to carry out their threats are investigated and taken seriously, that's when the Secret Service or other than local law enforcement is used. Partner I could careless personally what people say on this forum or any other, my comments have nothing to do with censorship, they were spoken so that people would consider what they saying  when angry. 

The situation I spoke about that occurred yesterday was very clear and could not be misunderstood. Look if you say you want to see or do harm to someone, thats your choice, if repercussions come from those comments thats also on you. However, not everyone realizes that posting on an Internet forum anonymously, is not really anonymous. If people think they can make threats and not be found because of their screen name on a forum they have a lot to learn. 

They are not hidden, their identity is as open as a book laying on a table at Costco. In today's world there are very few ways to hide who you are online, and posting anonymously online isn't one of them. No where did I say people should be afraid to speak their mind, but they should consider that the audience they are speaking too may include people who they don't want listening. My only point is I really don't think some people truly understand that once spoken online their comments are out there and can't be deleted. 

Onced typed they have to own what they have said, because those comments are out there forever. The government can arrest people for making threats, the Domestic Terorrism act, which is under the Patriot Act allows for personal investigation of US Citizens who make threats online. Especially in this country today with all the mass shootings and other violence that is occurring. There have been over the last five months more than 30 US Citizens arrested, including young teens for doing nothing more than making threats on chat forums. This is due to monitoring and to members of the forums reporting the comments of others to law enforcement.

So to say it's a violation of the First Amendment, is inaccurate because they are doing right now under a single blanket called Domestic Terrorism thats how they are legally pushing the First Amendment aside and doing what they want to do. My only concern is this is the beginning of a trend that may have serious implications in the  near future.

Peace

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