jmccr8 Posted December 22, 2019 #26 Share Posted December 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, Sherapy said: Will, What do you mean by inequality must be eliminated? Do you mean we should all think the same or be eliminated? Hi Sherarpy I think it means subject to a standard basically his standard. Okay I love women, the way they smell and how they respond but I do not deny that all of us feel the same way about someone or some gender. Those feeling are valid and heart felt if I my use the term in a universal way. Love is love no barriers exist nor judgement or commitment implied we are friends period and I will stand by them jmccr8 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted December 22, 2019 #27 Share Posted December 22, 2019 24 minutes ago, Sherapy said: Will, What do you mean by inequality must be eliminated? Do you mean we should all think the same or be eliminated? Playing the persecution card in a circular fashion. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hankenhunter Posted December 22, 2019 #28 Share Posted December 22, 2019 3 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said: Often on these boards, we see an attitude of superiority, from both the believers and the non believers in religion, spirituality, or deity. I see a lot of signs of smug satisfaction on the part of believers, with a strong dose of sympathy thrown in. And on the part of non-believers, I also see an intellectual smugness, being that those folk are 'smarter than the primitives'. ( yes, I have been guilty of this myself, but I am trying to be better) For the record, I don't believe in any of the religions that man has concocted. Nor do I embrace 'spirituality', because it sounds just like religion, without the structure. Kind of like saying something isn't 'red', it's 'cinnamon'. Or "It's not a 'used car', it's 'pre-owned'." No offense is intended to anyone, just my own POV on the subject that changing the nomenclature, doesn't change the subject matter. In my life, I really don't care what anyone believes, as long as it doesn't harm or impinge on others. If a person wants to believe that they are better than others, because of their faith, or their skin colour, or who they identify as, or who they love, then that is their prerogative. AS LONG AS... they do not try to impose those views on others. So my question is..... Does you belief, or lack thereof, make you feel one up on those who think differently? Not at all. Frustration maybe. Frustration at the delay caused by religion in our intellectual evolution as a species. We would be far more advanced by now without it. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted December 22, 2019 #29 Share Posted December 22, 2019 Just now, Hankenhunter said: Not at all. Frustration maybe. Frustration at the delay caused by religion in our intellectual evolution as a species. We would be far more advanced by now without it. Pure, unadulterated supposition. You are just guessing. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hankenhunter Posted December 22, 2019 #30 Share Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Habitat said: Pure, unadulterated supposition. You are just guessing. I was replying to the op with my opinion based on history. If you want to debate it, open another thread. Edited December 22, 2019 by Hankenhunter 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted December 22, 2019 #31 Share Posted December 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Habitat said: Pure, unadulterated supposition. You are just guessing. Hi Habitat Yes and according to your supported reference why would anyone question that pray tell? jmccr8 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted December 22, 2019 #32 Share Posted December 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Habitat Yes and according to your supported reference why would anyone question that pray tell? jmccr8 I understand Sir Isaac Newton, a scientific luminary of the first order, was a very religious man. "Old mate" tells us that religion is a handicap to science. I reckon his next guess will be that Newton would have been so much more that luminary, sans the religious devotion. That would be an even bolder guess. More likely, Newton would have never emerged from obscurity, if he wasn't the man he was, in its totality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted December 22, 2019 #33 Share Posted December 22, 2019 9 minutes ago, Habitat said: Pure, unadulterated supposition. You are just guessing. No that's the general consensus among many academics. Doctrine, dogma, End Times fear and false hope set us back thousands of years. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted December 22, 2019 #34 Share Posted December 22, 2019 Just now, Habitat said: I understand Sir Isaac Newton, a scientific luminary of the first order, was a very religious man. "Old mate" tells us that religion is a handicap to science. I reckon his next guess will be that Newton would have been so much more that luminary, sans the religious devotion. That would be an even bolder guess. More likely, Newton would have never emerged from obscurity, if he wasn't the man he was, in its totality. He wasn't the rule. Just one man. Albertus Magnus was the same. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted December 22, 2019 #35 Share Posted December 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Piney said: He wasn't the rule. Just one man. far from being "just one man". We know how science "progressed" in the presence of a strongly religious culture, we certainly do not know how it might have progressed, in the absence of it. It is sheer guesswork. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted December 22, 2019 #36 Share Posted December 22, 2019 19 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said: I was replying to the op with my opinion based on history. If you want to debate it, open another thread. So what ? You said it "frustrates" you that science has been stymied by religion, that is just an idle assumption, completely unscientific, actually, and if you don't like it being challenged, too bad for you ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hankenhunter Posted December 22, 2019 #37 Share Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Habitat said: So what ? You said it "frustrates" you that science has been stymied by religion, that is just an idle assumption, completely unscientific, actually, and if you don't like it being challenged, too bad for you ! Did the op ask for peer reviewed papers before replying? Like I said, open a thread to challenge me if your feeling pugnacious. Otherwise, stop bothering me. I'm not going to derail someone else's thread. Edited December 22, 2019 by Hankenhunter 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted December 22, 2019 #38 Share Posted December 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, Habitat said: far from being "just one man". We know how science "progressed" in the presence of a strongly religious culture, we certainly do not know how it might have progressed, in the absence of it. It is sheer guesswork. Let's see.....Athanasius burnt every Greek and Roman scientific writing he could get his hands on setting the Roman Empire back a few thousand years and the Renaissance was brought about by secular thinkers......... 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted December 22, 2019 #39 Share Posted December 22, 2019 15 minutes ago, Piney said: No that's the general consensus among many academics. Doctrine, dogma, End Times fear and false hope set us back thousands of years. Oh, I think you are just guessing with that one. The realistic appraisal would be, we just don't have enough examples of a civilization without a strong religious culture to compare against. It is like saying if some famous author hadn't been a boozer, he'd have been a much better writer, when in fact it isn't possible to re-run history with the bloke taking the pledge, and sticking to it. He might have been flat-out writing a message on a post-it note, for all we know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted December 22, 2019 #40 Share Posted December 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said: Did the op ask for peer reviewed papers before replying? Like I said, open a thread to challenge me if your feeling pugnacious. Otherwise, stop bothering me. I'm not going to derail someone else's thread. Nothing to do with pugnacious, but everything to do with you shutting down a critique of your statement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted December 22, 2019 #41 Share Posted December 22, 2019 Just now, Habitat said: Oh, I think you are just guessing with that one. The realistic appraisal would be, we just don't have enough examples of a civilization without a strong religious culture to compare against. It is like saying if some famous author hadn't been a boozer, he'd have been a much better writer, when in fact it isn't possible to re-run history with the bloke taking the pledge, and sticking to it. He might have been flat-out writing a message on a post-it note, for all we know. The AE when the cult of Aten took over. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted December 22, 2019 #42 Share Posted December 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Piney said: Let's see.....Athanasius burnt every Greek and Roman scientific writing he could get his hands on setting the Roman Empire back a few thousand years and the Renaissance was brought about by secular thinkers......... Science as we are influenced by it, is a product of Newton, more than any single other. No Newton, you would not even have been born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted December 22, 2019 #43 Share Posted December 22, 2019 The till now... Quote Galileo to Turing: The Historical Persecution of Scientists 22 Jun 2012 · Turing isn't the only scientist to have been persecuted for his personal or professional beliefs or lifestyle ~ Historical Persecution Of Scientists | SiOWfa16: Science in Our World ... 30 Nov 2016 · All of the examples I gave prove that the persecution of scientists all happened due to religious reasons. most . ~ And the list goes on and continues... ~ 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted December 22, 2019 #44 Share Posted December 22, 2019 18 minutes ago, Habitat said: far from being "just one man". We know how science "progressed" in the presence of a strongly religious culture, we certainly do not know how it might have progressed, in the absence of it. It is sheer guesswork. Hi Habitat Shot point It started then and we are here now what do you think we have missed in the process? jmccr8 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hankenhunter Posted December 22, 2019 #45 Share Posted December 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Habitat said: Nothing to do with pugnacious, but everything to do with you shutting down a critique of your statement. Sir Isaac was a scientist and very religious. For all that he wrote on religion, he may as well have twiddled his thumbs for all the good his religeous writings did mankind. It was his scientific works that benefited mankind. Are next going trott out the universities and hospitals argument next? Saved you the trouble. https://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2016/04/how-christianity-retarded-modern-society-by-1500-years Here's my arguments to you. Pretty comprehensive in my opinion. 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted December 22, 2019 #46 Share Posted December 22, 2019 Just now, Habitat said: Science as we are influenced by it, is a product of Newton, more than any single other. No Newton, you would not even have been born. Did you forget about Asia? India prior to the Muslim Crusade against books? He was only special to you Gaijin. Not to my ethnic group. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hankenhunter Posted December 22, 2019 #47 Share Posted December 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, Habitat said: Nothing to do with pugnacious, but everything to do with you shutting down a critique of your statement. Good luck with that. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted December 22, 2019 #48 Share Posted December 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Hankenhunter said: Good luck with that. Congratulations Hank! Your now a member of "The Team". @third_eye has to give you 10 shots with a paddle and pour a bottle of sake over your head though. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted December 22, 2019 #49 Share Posted December 22, 2019 Good ol ' Sir Isaac was also a closet heretic... Quote Newton also studied alchemy and religion. He wrote a forensic analysis of the Bible in an effort to decode divine prophecies. He held unorthodox religious views, rejecting the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. After his death, Newton’s heir, John Conduitt, the husband of his half-niece Catherine Barton, feared that one of the fathers of the Enlightenment would be revealed as an obsessive heretic. And so for hundreds of years few people saw his work. It was only in the 1960s that some of Newton’s papers were widely published... ~ ~ Quote https://www.wired.com/2014/05/newton-papers-q-and-a/ ~ 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted December 22, 2019 #50 Share Posted December 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, third_eye said: The till now... ~ And the list goes on and continues... ~ How ridiculous to saY Turing was persecuted because he was a scientist, it is all too obvious it was because of his homosexuality, like that non-scientist Oscar Wilde ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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